Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by BSTStar
So in your opinion, is the murder of homosexuals "good"? After at, it is what the Abrahamic god laid down as "good". Same goes for all of the
other examples I mentioned (and that is far from a comprehensive list). What is you opinion on, for example, the murder of disobedient children or
edit on 31-7-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)
Actually, before I comment on whether I think the punishment is good, let's talk about the crime - sin. God defined all the things you list as sin.
I assume you do not accept that although I have no idea why, since God, not you, is the one who defines sin. How about bestiality or murder? Is
there anything that you would agree with God is a sin or are you a "no rules, just right" kind of person? What if your disobedient children stole
your money, framed you for meth distribution, and burned down your house? Or is sexuality and child discipline your hangup - you've just got to have
a "no rules" approach to these specific areas?
Now, you describe these punishments as "murder" as if that is somehow the biblical term. I'm assuming to heighten the hysteria of your debate.
There are all kinds of different punishments for different offenses ranging from being turned out to being hanged. But let's assume for the moment
that specific sins call for execution - in other words removing a person from the population permanently. Let's start with an extreme and work
inward - Let me ask you, is the execution of a homicidal maniac murder or a rational public defense? Why do you describe punishment as "murder"?
That is curious. This is completely hypothetical and not biblical in the least, but what if God knows that homosexual behavior by the Israelites
would have resulted in the end of the Israelite people because of lowered birth rates in the face of increasing infant mortality? Would the
extinction of the Israelites be a good enough reason in your mind to prohibit the activity?
In terms of God's purposes for his people, the Israelites whom he had set aside for his own special people, I assume the punishments that he
prescribes for various behaviors he defines as sin, no matter what they are, and there are many, are not only good but perfect for achieving his
goals. Tough break here for the Israelites on the wrong side of this - although there is lots of evidence that they neither obeyed the law nor its
judicial mandates very well.
So your question was, do I think they are good? Yes, for God's purposes they were perfect. Are they 'good' in a "I wish the world was like
this" kind of good? Obviously not, it's a tragic consequence of a sin filled world. It's tragic that people choose to sin and hurt other people.
It's tragic there are consequences. But I don't presume to judge God in terms of what he defines as sin or the consequences he lays out. Was it
tragic he killed the firstborn of Egypt because Pharoah was too stiff-necked to release the Hebrews? You bet - but in the sense that God directed
this punishment, it was right, good, and perfect.
It's tragic that people are so double-minded that on the one hand they can say, "I love my neighbor" and on the other they can commit adultery
against them, break up their family, destroy the lives of their kids, get STD's, spread them around, etc., etc. etc. Get my point? You probably
think you love your neighbor, but you not only don't agree with God in terms of what that means but you also do not agree on the punishment to
dissuade people from making their lives and the lives of other people miserable.
I'm sure at this point you've either already fired up your reply screen or are so agitated you aren't listening, but God has made a way out of this
most unfortunate circumstance, i.e. that we are at war with God's definition of sin and the consequences thereof. We can repent and believe that
Jesus has paid the price for our sins. Most of us, including me, should be dead for the sins we've committed and we would be if the law was all we
had. But fortunately, God has offered us his grace as an alternative - and I for one am grabbing hold of that promise and holding on for dear life.
I've stared at my sin and I don't like it, I don't want to do it, and I've turned away and I keep turning away.
God is real my friend, he will punish sin and it's his rule book we're playing by. You can stick your fingers in your ears and say, "That's an
outrage!" but it isn't going to change the playing field at all.
He's the potter, we're the clay.