The problem with Religious debates ONLINE

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posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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Dont get me wrong. I LOVE talking about religion and my beliefs. The problem about doing it online is quite simple.

Discrimination.

Discrimination on both sides! I'm a christian and i have full respect for anyones belief. I'm not going to shove religion down your throat. however i do have a right to defend what i believe. So when someone calls out someone who believes in God and asks a questions such as "Can you explain to me why i should believe in God?" i love it! i love talking about it. BUT usually when the conversations start, names will start being flung. like im "stupid to believe in what i believe". That i "have an adult imaginary friend". That its a "joke and anyone who believes in this stuff should kill themselves" (Yes i have had that comment)

The clincher though is when someone said RELIGION IS DISCRIMINATIVE TOWARDS PEOPLE! saying this while calling my religion all names under the sun and saying some pretty hurtful things in the process. (being discriminative calling someone discriminative.) argh its annoying haha

What i am proposing is this. i would like to see if this thread can stay civilized in a religious DISCUSSION not a debate. A experiment if you will. i want to see if its possible to talk about religion without throwing names around or being disrespectful to all partys from all sides. so. to kick start us off. What do you believe and why?

Im interested to hear what everyones beliefs are




posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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I believe that the Ancient Egyptian gods are alive, real, and will return. They make up the physical world and influence things based on how much they favor the various aspects.

Edit: Since it seems like others are going into a far greater elaboration than I have, I'll expand.

I believe in the great universal consciousness which created everything, called Atum. Through his awakening and realization, the whole of existence came into being. The gods simply arose from his being, to find some existence and some special interest with humans. After a time of fighting, the goddess Aset (Isis) obtained the sun god Ra's power, and became the central goddess among the gods, with the most power and notoriety. She is the one in charge of the majority of things, and Thoth is her friend as the god of knowledge and wisdom.

We should all aspire to be good enough people that we may have an audience with the gods, that we can earn their respect and thus earn a place in the immortal space that is the Duat.
edit on 30-7-2012 by Varemia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by sparksgordon
 


Dear sparksgordon,

I am a Christian and will tell you right now that it will not happen. There are a lot of people who left their churches because they felt persecuted or attacked for questioning the religions beliefs. They were taught bad dogma, were forced to say they believed and still have questions. I am not talking about atheists or agnostics who simply don't care, I am talking about the one's who feel a need to ridicule believers. That is not about belief, that is about anger and a lot of it is justified based on their life experience.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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Thank you for giving me the opportunity for me to proclaim my faith.

I believe in the God of Abraham. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who died for all of our sins. He is the way, the truth And the life.

I am what they call Christian. I strive to love my enemies and to pray for my persecutors. I am a sinner.

God is love.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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What an ambitious project and I wish it well.

I think Chesterton was asked a similar question and his answer was "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so." I can't beat that.

I accept the authenticity of the Bible on the grounds of historical analysis. No evidence can ever result in 100% proof, but we can't live our lives waiting for 100% proof. The evidence for the Bible and Jesus seems persuasive to me.

I also have great respect for the writings of the earliest Christians who pointed out the direction the Church was to take. Again, my interpretation, and I believe the evidence points to it, shows the central role Peter had in the Church at it's beginnings.

I further respect the work and prayer put into the issues of the Church by the great thinkers, such as Aquinas. And the devotion displayed by the martyrs.

Modern writers, such as Chesterton and Lewis (OK, relatively modern) speak to me about the logical basis and common sense foundations of Christianity.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by sparksgordon
 


What i am proposing is this. i would like to see if this thread can stay civilized in a religious DISCUSSION not a debate. A experiment if you will. i want to see if its possible to talk about religion without throwing names around or being disrespectful to all partys from all sides. so. to kick start us off. What do you believe and why?

Im interested to hear what everyones beliefs are

I will begin, I reckon, and i promise to keep it civil. I don't have "beliefs" or "faith," to me these are not tangible, and static. I have Ideas, which are dynamic, always adding or subtracting, updating and rearranging, or correlating ideas. I do rather "believe," meaning I have seen proof of, some things concerning religion. One is what the Godhead is. To me it is a vast, super intelligent energy field that is composed of two polarities, one male, one female. I think that at some point in time this energy field exploded and became that which is our Human Souls, always alive, always thinking, immortal and powerful. To humanize, and personalize this aspect, I say Father and Mother, for to me they are just that. I am a Spirit, and they are the source of that Spirit, the parents. That is simple logic.

I believe we of Humanity are here on Earth, in this third dimensional reality, to be educated on how to be a Creator. That which is the Godhead is always expanding, always growing larger. We are the human expression of that.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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Pipe Dreams! I think it is safe to ASSume that both sides react strongly because we are dealing with strong beliefs and things that we were always taught were true, or things we came to realize were not as true as we thought or were taught (Covering both sides here).

This is IMO only, leaves us feeling like we have been personally attacked for our intelligence level, our parent's intelligence level, our critical thinking skills, or ability to tell fact from fiction, gullibility factor, mental capacity, etc. etc. etc. Whatever you want to call it, pretty much works and it works for both sides. Nobody is telling us that we are stupid for believing or not believing that The Simpson's is a funny show... They are calling us stupid for believing or not believing in one of life's most black and white areas, and on a subject that most folks either hold as an unshakable faith in the truth or a fairy tale. That in itself shows how extreme both sides can be.

So we do take it personally. It's kind of like a "Your Momma" joke, when your mom passed away 2 days ago. It will always incite raw emotion and equally raw reaction IMO. Debate the color yellow and nobody wants to call you a nut job. Debate religion, and even the most calm folks want to throw you the stink eye while trying to control a form of "Roid Rage" that would have them coming to your house at 1 am to tell you how much you suck by spray painting it in hot pink letters on the side of your General Lee kit car.

It's a lovely idea, if it could work.

And BTW, I am a Christian. I believe in being saved by the blood Of Jesus Christ. I believe in Heaven and I believe in Hell. I also believe God loves loving Athiests maybe a bit more than He does hateful Christians, but I don't know that for a fact.
edit on 7/30/2012 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:13 PM
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I think the sometimes hostile replies come from frustration. The folks who do believe say that God is just, kind and a loving God. Those who do not believe [me] see a world out of control. A world where our fellow man is being abused in so many ways. I, for one, have a very serious question: If He cares about us so much, why does He let us destroy each other? Why is there war, famine, torture and so much hate. I do not except the free will excuse.
I am a kind and loving parent and I believe in giving my children free will, yet I do not let them play with things that will harm them.
No, I do not consider myself God like in any way, but it is an equal analogy. You watch over your children, care for them. Yes, you let them fall and get a scratch or scrape to teach valuable lessons, but as a race, we are way beyond a scraped knee. We need help and there is none. Can you imagine what would happen if He would just put in an appearance once in awhile?



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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I spent almost 30 years of my life as a devout fundamentalist Christian. I am now an atheist/agnostic, and I believe if there is any salvation for the human species, it will come by our own hand, or it won't come at all.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by DAVID64
 

Just looking for a little elaboration.

If He cares about us so much, why does He let us destroy each other? Why is there war, famine, torture and so much hate. I do not except the free will excuse.
Why don't you?



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:47 PM
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I believe that aliens are our true ‘gods’, they assisted with our evolution as a species, gave us knowledge (that has been lost) and will return one day to see how we are doing (very badly I might add because of religion & racism)

It’s not hard to understand that ancient humans mistook aliens to be actual gods, to them they were.

Then we get all these offshoots and many different kinds of religious clubs springing up all over the place trying to understand why they left and what it all meant.

Next comes all the books and texts (written by man) to use as control over the people in order to spread their own agenda and the way they feel things ‘should be’ (like modern law)

Unfortunately for the next couple of thousand years, these texts are blindly followed, millions of people killed in the name of ‘gods’ and even today religion is a dividing force and the cause of many wars.

I do not see any good come from religion at all, if the catholic religion for example was about helping the poor etc, then they themselves would be poor and not one of the richest organisations on the earth and I’m certain that if the Christian ‘god’ were real he would not want that either.

My god does not need money or worshipping, just an interstellar spacecraft and a hope that we as a human animal species can become something more than savage killers.

Mickierocksman



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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Yes, I discriminate against people whom are intentionally dishonest... It has nothing to do with a persons beliefs, it has to do with their honesty when they are faced with having to back them up while they have no means of doing so. They enter the debates thinking they are above scrutiny, or above having to be intellectually honest.. Most arguments in religion fall apart when one side clearly becomes dishonest and intentionally ignorant while tossing around fallacy arguments and dogma all over the place. And guess which side does the majority of that? Me being a Christian for over 20 years can attest to that it's rarely ever not the Christian or religious side. Especially when they are engaging in a debate while starting from an absolute negative to begin with.. It's obvious where that train wreck is going to go..



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Mickierocksman
 

Again, just a small elaboration, please.

Who created the Aliens?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Mickierocksman

Unfortunately for the next couple of thousand years, these texts are blindly followed, millions of people killed in the name of ‘gods’ and even today religion is a dividing force and the cause of many wars.

I do not see any good come from religion at all, if the catholic religion for example was about helping the poor etc, then they themselves would be poor and not one of the richest organisations on the earth and I’m certain that if the Christian ‘god’ were real he would not want that either.



Mickierocksman


Thank you all for your posts! this is really interesting and diverse! love it! i do see where you are coming from in these objections and i used to feel the same. more deaths have been caused in the last 100 years by Communist. if it keeps going this way the deaths in religion will just be a spec in relation to those deaths.

And as a christian. i am also apauled with how the church has so much money. Im currently leaving a church which they feel putting money towards buy 6 big flat screen tvs is a good way to use there money when they have homeless people who come to our church that could do with some new clothes or some help getting set up! it makes me a bit sick to be honest.

again thanks so much for these posts! so far so good! no one has been discriminative and respectful to peoples beliefs! keep them coming!

Sparks



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Mickierocksman
 

Again, just a small elaboration, please.

Who created the Aliens?


Not a ‘god’ but evolution on their home planet over millions if not billions of years.

Mickierocksman



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by Mickierocksman
 


i used to have the exact same beliefs as you matey! if that is true though id have to even go down the road as to say that God created all life not just on out planet! and if science proves evolution to be true i will applaud science and i will also applaud God



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:23 AM
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It’s things like this thread I made today that promotes my loathing of all things religious, especially the christian faith that hides behind the cloak of do-gooders when everyone can plainly see that it is simply a cult “hell bent” on pushing an agenda that only assists the church and not the people it’s supposed to be caring or looking out for.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do wish that all religions would just disappear overnight, for with religion we have no hope of becoming a better species of animal.

I wish we could work towards getting off this rock rather than fighting and killing each other.

Religion is not the key to a better life, rather the opposite.

Mickierocksman



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by sparksgordon
 

Hey!, sparksgordon!

Need a little guidance here. It's your thread and I want to be polite and all, but where are we going? After a bunch of people have stated some of their opinions, what were you thinking would happen? What's the next step in your experiment?

Can we start thowing Torahs, Bibles, Korans, and other miscellaneous stuff at each other?
When do I get to start purging the earth of the foul infidels?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by Mickierocksman
It’s things like this thread I made today that promotes my loathing of all things religious, especially the christian faith that hides behind the cloak of do-gooders when everyone can plainly see that it is simply a cult “hell bent” on pushing an agenda that only assists the church and not the people it’s supposed to be caring or looking out for.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do wish that all religions would just disappear overnight, for with religion we have no hope of becoming a better species of animal.

I wish we could work towards getting off this rock rather than fighting and killing each other.

Religion is not the key to a better life, rather the opposite.

Mickierocksman



LOL and there we have it ladies and gentlemen the end to this experiment. it didn't even last a page. you just insulted the beliefs of millions of people with no attack against yours. *shakes head*



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

i didnt want any of that hahaha. i just wanted to see if people could share there beliefs without someone insulting them. it didnt last 1 page haha



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