NWO Survival Planning

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posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 02:32 AM
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I am not a survivalist type of person, nor a sporty one. I am an intellectual and spiritual-minded person, that meaning - I live in my mind. Just a few years ago, thinking that one day I will be thinking about survival, hunting or even going into the wilderness, would have been unthinkable. Today, I have no choice, but to prepare.

I know something very dire, tragic, catastrophic is going to happen in the world in the near future that will impact the whole world. I am sure there are others sharing the same concerns and thinking about their own survival plans.

The worst case scenorio:

It is November 9th 2004. The constitution and the bill of rights have been dissolved after a staged nuclear attack somewhere in the western world. Martial law is declared and police keeping forces flood the streets while dozens of black helicopters hover over the skies, causing people to tremble. Civil disorder and panic erupts on the street, leading to police forces mobilizing to contain the crowds. Riots break out all over and police forces deploy tear-gas, rubber bullets and concussion grenades to disperse the crowds, using much unnecessary brutality. Protests erupt against the police brutality, leading to limited civillian-police clashes. Police immediately arrest the dissenters, many being of foreign origin, and then then taken away in police vans to unknown locations. Highschools are flooded in by army troops and students are herded out and taken into nearyby camps. A few days/months of complete chaos reigns. More civilian-police clashes occurr, and even more are detained. The reality of the civil war has been established. America is at war with the people. Many people on the streets are forced into concentration camps. People at home are ordered to stay inside for an indefinite period of time, many, missing loved ones, whom were detained on the streets or taken into camps. Streets quickly turn into ghost towns.

Later, police vans drive through streets, and police forces speak though loud speakers, ordering people out of their homes" THIS IS THE POLICE, YOU MUST VACATE YOUR PREMISIS, THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, YOU MUST COMPLY, DISOBEDIANCE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED" mass house raids are made into people houses, kicking doors down, grabbing hold of people and hustling them out, regardless of their condition. They are told they are to be rehoused in temporary cities.

In hundreds of concentration camps all over America, millions of Americans sit in crowded, cold places, shaken with terror, cold, hungry, thristy, stripped of their freedom and dignity, and with not a clue of what just happend. Life as they know it is over. They are enslaved by the state and at it's mercy. The Nazi holocausts return. While all this is happening, small groups of Americans still roam around the streets, some have even fled into the wilderness. Helicopter raids are made to locate the free americans, and police forces search every household, while at the same time loot the goods of it's owners , finding many Americans still in their living rooms, in basements or hidden under floorboards. The police are inhuman to them, tease them, humilate them. Some are even executed.

Many homeless americans roam around in the wilderness, with nothing on them, no food and no water to drink. They have nowhere to go. They are starved, thristy and cold. Many just cannot cope with the trauma and give up, getting severely ill and dying. The weather does not help their condition either, it gets colder and colder as time progresses. The weather continues to deteroiate, rains fall and flood the lands, then snows fall, blizzards pound, the earths tremble. The morale of the survivors falls even lower, more give up, and die in the painful colds or are swallowed by the earth or drowned in the floods. Those that survive, retire into shelters, and live the next few years there, surviving on insects, hunted animals and plants, and drinking unpurified rain water and melted snow. Diseases become rampant and no cures seem to be in sight, A perpetual sense of terror always accompanies as those black helicopters fly over and the police forces near.

Things get much worse, it is 2006, and a Third World War has just broken out. In no time, wars are being fought over the skies of America, the sky rains down missiles, bombs, unknown weapons of mass desutrction. More land is destroyed, more people die. Yet it is not the end. Nuclear war has begun, several American cities are struck with nuclear terror, cities are destroyed as are rural lands, and radiation particles fill the skies. The air becomes poisonous to breathe. The water toxic to drink. The war ends quickly, and billions the world over have perished. Those that have survived, who have seen rivers of blood, endured incessant pain and terror, are now faced with the challenge to rebuild civilization.

Now, let's combine minds and devise strategies to be able to cope with all the horrors if such a scenorio did present itself. There are many elements to this survival scenorio, and at each stage, more will fall prey than survive:

The police forces
Civil disorder, crime and unrest
Starvation and dehydration
Shelter
Climatic changes; earthquakes, floods, blizzards, hurricanes
Extreme colds
Seperation anxiety(loved ones missing)
Demoralization
Nuclear war
Rebuilding

How do you make sure you survive to the bitter end. How do you maximise your survival potential. Let's discuss. This could be the most important discussion you have.

NOTE: If anyone disbelieves in the existence of the NWO and wishes to raise this as an issue, please desist, and instead treat this as a hypothetical exercise. It never hurts to be prepared for any eventuality.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]




posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 03:28 AM
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Sorry to be cynical or dumb but I would suggest that if any of the above happened I would just put my head between my legs and kiss my ass good bye..


But if I was thinking of surviving something like that you would either need lots of money to build a self supporting bomb shelter/underground ark or pure look out side in the elements! I can easily survive now with just a knife and box of matches but that's in the land as it is now, after something like the above you would not stand much chance due to too much of the earth being poisoned by Nuclear fall out.

The people that survie will be the rich fu****s with underground arks that will come back to take over the world again and screw it all up again for GREED.



[edit on 10-10-2004 by mfourl] Spelling


[edit on 10-10-2004 by mfourl]



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by mfourl
Sorry to be cynical or dumb but I would suggest that if any of the above happened I would just put my head between my legs and kiss my ass good bye..


But if I was thinking of surviving something like that you would either need lots of money to build a self supporting bomb shelter/underground ark or pure look out side in the elements! I can easily survive now with just a knife and box of matches but that's in the land as it is now, after something like the above you would not stand much chance due to too much of the earth being poisoned by Nuclear fall out.

The people that survie will be the rich fu****s with underground arks that will come back to take over the world again and screw it all up again for GREED.



[edit on 10-10-2004 by mfourl] Spelling


[edit on 10-10-2004 by mfourl]


That is a very natural reaction. After so much agony, and seeing so many loved ones suffer and die right before you, and some enslaved and taken away to never be seen again, it will really take someone tough, resilient, special to continue to live on. The odds of survival are against us. If the NWO do not get us, then the colds, starvation and dehydraton could, if the colds do not get us, then the floods, blizzard and earthquakes could. If they do not get us, then the nuclear war could. At every disaster, more will fall prey than survive. It really will take a lot of LUCK to survive.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 06:31 AM
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im new here but i do beleive in the NWO and beleive that its closer than many people think. im not sure about your theory on neclear war but i do beleive there will be a war to end all wars. and that the world will be hit all at once they have started by making it harder to get guns and other weapons putting legalities on them. it will be harder to servive if your not armed or with a group that is ready for this to happen. raising the prises of just about everything and not raiseing our wages to cover it has made it hard for many americans and foreigners to prepare for such attacks the rich are truely the advantaged.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by panther749
im new here but i do beleive in the NWO and beleive that its closer than many people think. im not sure about your theory on neclear war but i do beleive there will be a war to end all wars. and that the world will be hit all at once they have started by making it harder to get guns and other weapons putting legalities on them. it will be harder to servive if your not armed or with a group that is ready for this to happen. raising the prises of just about everything and not raiseing our wages to cover it has made it hard for many americans and foreigners to prepare for such attacks the rich are truely the advantaged.


I am already disadvantaged, as a Brit, I am not allowed to own gun weapons, nor do I know where I could procure them. This is where we can start our discussion on survival

How do we defend ourselves? What legal forms of weapons can we procure, or even construct? How do we fend against police forces or even desperate civilians? What should we be doing now to work towards our defence?

[edit on 10-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 07:34 PM
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You know, I've been thinking about this very subject for awhile..

While I admit I'm alot like you.. except I'd say I live in my mind and well, I got fat, lazy, and "interneted" as I've heard people say..


I was thinking about the future, and I do see things getting bad in the future.. It could be anything, but I feel that someday the wars of the world will spill over onto American soil..

If/when that happens I'll let things unfold, let the battle rage and let people die. But while all that happens, I'll be spending 6 weeks working out, getting fit, running miles, practice my marksmanship and survival skills. Ooh the joys of living in Bum-Fuk-Egypt aka HickVille.

No I wont join the military, I'll be preparing myself to fight, for whichever "side" I need to be on.. but I will never sit down and put my head between my legs and cower.

Worse comes to worse, I'll sit on the roof of my house and shoot anyone that comes near my family



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 08:25 PM
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Indigo_Child > since you asked about weapons, find out exactly what weapons are forbidden. I'm sure normal rifles and shotguns are a given, but what about blackpowder weapons? Also dont overlook simpler weapons such as bows and crossbows. All of those weapons will work just fine for procuring food, though they require a degree of precision to be effective.

To be honest, avoid any police forces or other armed groups, as exchanges with weapons are generally a bad thing. First you have the chance of injury, then theres the fact that after the first two shots everyone knows where you are, and the best reason I think is due to the fact that ammunition is best used to take game for food rather than trying to fight a often superiorly armed opponent.

Instead of head-on confrontation, learn the land and how to navigate it day, night, rain and snow. Learn how to track and subsequently disguise your trail. Moving undetected is not something that comes easy, and will take alot of work to get good at it. If you live in the cities and are concerned about things like this, move out to a more rural area.

Something you may want to consider putting together is what many call a go-bag or a bugout-bag; its basically a backpack or duffel bag of necessary items to surive. It doesnt need to be overly large or complicated, as it only needs to last you long enough to evade trouble, link up with a circle of friends, or aquire more suitiable supplies. Here is just a breif list of things that you may find useful to include in your pack

+ space blanket
+ glow sticks
+ swiss-army knife or multi-tool
+ large plastic tarp
+ rope
+ waterproof matches, non-electirc lighter or magnesium firestarting tool
+ simple longlife foods (canned or otherwise sealed)
+ container for water
+ water purification filter or tablets
+ hatchet, machette or treesaw
+ first-aid kit
+ weather radio
+ compass w/ topographic and road maps of your immediate area.

This is a very basic list and it could vary depending on your region and such. I keep all of this and a good bit more stored away in my pack, though I also carry mine out with me during times of inclimate wather such as heavy rain or snow as all the tools in the pack can be very useful in more than just the end-of-the-world scenarios. The key idea is that the pack is simple, light, and effective; something you can grab off a rack in your house as you head out the door in under 5 minutes.

A good idea is to pratice going from normal home activities to an evacuation of your home for say a weekend of camping. Time yourself and see how long it takes you to be out that front door. Once your out, spend the weekened or a day camping using only whats in your pack. Over time you will figure out what you use, dont use, and what you may need to add to the pack or change. Its an ongoing thing to tailor your pack just how you want/like it, often for those who are serious it can take years to get it just right.

If your serious about this level of preparedness you may also want to locate more supplies in areas ahead of time as a precaution, so you can restock without having to come near people. This is not something for everyone, as leaveing a lockbox of supplies burried out in the middle of nowhere does have the inherent risks of theft, damage, etc.

*whew, thats alot of gum flapping, I'll let everyone digest and comment on this while I actually get some homework and other duties done*



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by alternateheaven


Thank you for those. They were excellent tips. In particular the "track and cover your steps" I did not think about that. Yes, evacuation drills also sound sensible. I would like to expand on this and others.

Resettling location:

Which would be the most appropriate terrain to go to. The countryside, the woods, the jungle or the mountains. All have their advantages and disadvantages I assume. The next thing would be to consider where exactly are we going to shelter when dislocated(caves, trees, farms?) The UK, being a tiny country, there is not too much choice. As I have been a city dweller all my life, I have absolutely no clue, where to go. Another decision that needs to be made, how far from home, are we willing to travel. In the event of a national emergency, there would be little time to go far, and the use of transport cannot be relied upon. Leaving it to late is likely to be dangerous.

The most effective strategy would be to leave just before the national emergency is declared. That would be difficult to predict. The time frame of the scenorio is November 9th 2004, we have to assume we have no prior knowledge of this date, meaning we would have to deal with the logistics of an evacation and evacuate in less than a month.

So, many who are considering moving out of the city, are going to have to make the very difficult decision of when to move. Too early, and food and water resources will deplete and time will be wasted. Too late, and the risk of losing the opportunity to move all together.

Weapons:

Yeah, crossbows sounds like a good alternative. If an airpistol was legal that would also be a good alternative(again, I have no idea where to obtain) There would be no problem in getting a sword(an immediate problem in carrying one around in public) or a dagger, but these weapons only be effective in close-range combat.

Would construction of weapons be a viable alternative? Do you know any resources on the construction of own weapons. Also, perhaps this is ambitious, but could we be able to construct electronic weapons with easily obtainable hardware? EMP and microwave, electric guns, sound guns, or blinding light weapons.

Yes, I have absolutely no desire or inclination in having direct confrontations with police forces. Weapons are only for self-defence.

Backpacks or rucksacks:

I am ahead of you on this one. All the things you mention are very useful. This backpack would need to contain everything that is necessary for sustaining our very basic needs. We may only get one chance of selecting what we need, and be stuck with that for years. We would also have to choose carefully, as unneeded things will only take up unnecessary space.

I have a few questions for you on your item list:

Why would we need rope? It is probably something obvious, but I cannot think of it myself. Rock and tree climbing? Never did that myself.

What is a non-electric lighter?

You mention glow sticks, how long do they last, and do they provide adequate illumination?

I know a swiss-army knife or leatherman and a compass are musts, but as I have never used them, I don't really know what I would apply them for in a survival situation. Care to enlighten me?

Food resources are very important, but how long will they sustain you for. If you are out in the wilderness for several months or even years, and your only food source is what was stored in the back-up, will it be enough? I have considered MRE's, if it were possible to store 300 of these in the back-pack, would they be able to sustain you for 300 days, by eating one a day?
Are there better alternatives?

Some additional items I would like to suggest:


  • Walkie Talkies: Is this traceable or can it be picked up by the armed forces?
  • Flashlites: Ideally, one with a lot of battery life and candlepower. An LED one with 3C batteries could provide more than 360 hours of continous operation. In addition, a solar or dynamo powerd one could be useful.
  • Sleeping bags and/or a tent
  • Fishing line or net(Bait would be a problem)
  • A small survival book
  • A mosquitto net
  • A pack of playing cards or some other games
  • A pack of condoms: I am not kidding, the least we want, is an STD or a baby admist all the other worries

  • At least one change of clothes
  • In an event of nuclear, chemical or biological war: A face mask, a radiation detection device, anti radiation pills: Objects that many won't consider or purchase, but potentially life saving.





[edit on 10-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]

[edit on 10-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 11:58 PM
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As you pointed out its hard to know too far in advance when things would go sour, so the best way to deal with that is of course practice as I mentioned earlier but also to develop a rough plan of where to go and what to do once there. Practice combined with a rough plan of where to go will allow you to move faster than if your doing all the thinking on the fly, so at the onset of a situation you could probably make a decent bit of travel in 24 to 48 hours, especially if you know the terrain and are in relatively good shape. Also something that just crossed my mind is a bicycle as transportation; not quite as loud as a car, easier to service, and the only fuel it needs is you!

Weapons construction is going to be primitive at best. Attempting to create weapons using combustible materials is an invitation for disaseter. Reliability is a key, so your probably better of not constructing weapons but rather purchasing them ahead of time.

The reason for the rope is actually a multitude of reasons. You can use it to tie up a splint on a injured arm or leg, string up various tent configurations using the tarp, drag large game such as deer, construct more permenant shelters using wood, rig traps for small game like rabbits; the list can go on and on, its a very versatile item to carry with you.

I mentioned non-electic lighter because in the event of EMP or Nuclear weapons usage they can be rendered useless. Just get a big package of Bic lighters and toss them in the pack, they are cheap, effective, and relatively reliable in comparison to butane lighters that require a piezeo-electric starting mechanism.
Glowsticks are useful in that they do provide light, albeit its rather weak light. For minor things that dont require alot of light they work fine, plus they dont give off heat, so there is no thermal signature to worry about if somone is actively looking for you. I can't recall the lifespan of the lightsticks I have, it may depend on the brand and type you purchase. Also in the event of nuclear war or EMP weapon usage they arent affected as the light is created by a chemical reaction rather than by electricity. They also should be offest with some traditional safety candles for times when you need more light than a glowstick.

Swiss-army knifes and multi-tools such as the Leatherman Wave are complete toolkits in and of themselves. Almost all such items have slotted and phillips-head screwdrivers, scisors, knife blade, nail file, etc. They come in many configutations, sizes and styles to fit just about any roll. With multi-tools you also get pliers, small saws, can openers, wire cutters, and more. This makes repair of things a snap without having to lug around an entire set of tools.

On the topic of food, there are many ways to go. Freeze-dried and vaccum-packed foods seem to have a decent shelf life, and are often small or slim in size so its easy to pack them into compartments of your pack/bag. MRE's have an added bonus in that they provide you food, and head via the charcoal heating pack they often come with. I would say carry between 3 and 7 days food supply in your pack so you have room for other things. Keep in mind you can survive alot longer without food than you can water, so focus on hydration. There are various ways to preserve food such as smoking, so you may be able to stock a bit of game meat rather than hunt for your meal every day. It would be advisable to read up on food preservation techniques.



    Walkie Talkies: Is this traceable or can it be picked up by the armed forces?
    Flashlites: Ideally, one with a lot of battery life and candlepower. An LED one with 3C batteries could provide more than 360 hours of continous operation. In addition, a solar or dynamo powerd one could be useful.
    Sleeping bags and/or a tent
    Fishing line or net(Bait would be a problem)
    A small survival book
    A mosquitto net
    A pack of playing cards or some other games
    A pack of condoms: I am not kidding, the least we want, is an STD or a baby admist all the other worries

    At least one change of clothes



Walkie Talkies tend to operate on the GMRS or FRS frequencies, which are not at all protected from snooping. They also require batteries, which take up more weight in your pack. Flashlights are a good idea, thought sticking to the dynamo or LED types would be preferable, as they require less power than conventional flashlights (and dont forget extra bulbs). Tents weigh alot, so unless you have a rigid-frame pack you may not want to be lugging one around with you, although sleepingbags are a good idea and usually dont weigh that much. Fishing tackle is a good idea if you expect to have access to a stream, but as you pointed out in the scenario there was nuclear war, thus some bodies of water would undoubtedly become contaminated. Some sort of survival guide would definately be a plus, I would recommend The Complete Book of Outdoor Survival by Wayne J Fears I have the second edition and have read it cover to cover twice now. Cards are a good idea as there are psychological issues such as stress and others that need to be relieved, and games will definately help that. I never thought of mosquito netting mainly because I carry a special incense in my pack that repells bugs, but definately a good idea. The mentioning of condoms is actually good, for more reasons than just the obvious. A condom can hold about 2 liters of liquid without bursting, so bring along unlubricated condoms for carrying water! Also in a pinch a condom can be used to tie around an arm or leg to cut off circulation for dealing with snake bites. Clothes are definately another thing not to neglect. Keep a change of both summer and winter clothes, as you never know what the weather can bring. Hats are a good thing to have as a vast majority of your body heat escapes through the top of your head, and covering your bean will keep you warmer. Also it would probably be wise to get a nice set of hiking boots, as normal street shoes will not cut it when your in the backcountry.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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I've thought about this too, this is a great thread for information, even if hypothetical.

This is from my SAS survival guide (I'm not in the SAS by any means, this is just a pocket book I bought at the bookstore. ISBN 0-00-470167)

This is the survival kit they recommend, and it can fit in a 2oz tobacco tin. They also recommend polishing the inside of the lid to make it able to be used as a reflector. (assuming a survival situation where you want to be seen, but still a signal mirror may be useful in this situation too.)

1. Matches (waterproof. you can showerproof matches by dippingthe heads in melted wax)

2. Candle (shaved square for packing. Tallow candle can be eaten in an emergency or used for frying (!))

3. Flint (processed, with saw striker)

4. Magnifying Glass (to start fire in sunlight)

5. Needles and Thread (several, and one with a very large eye to take sinew / coarse thread. Wrap strong thread around the needles)

6. Fish hooks and line

7. Compass (liquid filled with luminous button)

8. Beta light (light emitting crystal for map reading, and as a fishing lure)

9. Snare Wire (brass, 2-3ft)

10. Flexible saw (the wirey kind, with attachable wooden toggles as handles)

11. Medical kit



  1. Analgesic
  2. Intestinal sedative
  3. Antibiotic (enough for full course)
  4. Antihistamine
  5. Water sterilising tablets
  6. Anti Malaria tablets (if applicable)
  7. Potassium permanganate (Add to water and mix. Pink to sterilise, deeper pink for antispetic, and full red to treat fungal disesaes)


12. Surgical blades (2 of different sizes)

13. Butterfly sutures

14. Plasters (bandaids, waterproof, various sizes)

15. Condom (good water bag, like AH said hehe)


Also I think I'd take a few bottles of vitamins with me, as well as a folding shovel, knife and axe.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 01:15 AM
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Terrain:

Mountains get cold because of the high altitude. Jungle generally is very hot.

Personally, I believe the woods to be the best place. Generally, it offers more wood, more wildlife to eat, good protection/evasion.

An important thing to note is that it has a water source.

Suplies

Must haves include a water purification system, Guns (if legal), a large knife, hatchet/saw, warm clothing, matches, boots, a first aid kit and a shovel.

Good things to have are a tent, fishing equipment, food, kevlar vest, cooking/eating wear, rope/string.

Ammo would become the new currency, so make sure to have lots of it - especially .22, 9mm, .308 and .223. Those are the most common weapons you will find.

Gun wise, you would want a .22 rifle (small animals such as rabbits, squirls, birds ect) a .308 (for large animals like deer and cars) and a semi/fully auto .223 for personal defence.

Where you want to go

Obviously the less populated the better. Other important things to consider are trade winds and government buildings. Find out the patterns on certain areas, because you do not want the wind blowing nuclear fall out to your new home from a city.

Make sure that there are no important government buildings where you are going. Military bases are clearly a no no, but also make sure major financial buildings are not close as well as any kind of depot or raw material industry. These are all near the top of the list of things to nuke or sieze by force.

Other important stuff:

One thing that will help you that you can do now is vote for people who support gun rights. Be wary of any legislation that keeps on file the names of gun owners - these are the first people that would be sought in this situation.

Also, it isn't going to happen over night. Just like every major political event in history, there will be tell tale signs it is coming - you just have to find and recognize them. Financial problems would be my bet, not a nuclear attack, but thats just me.

Try to have a car that can go off roads, because if you get stuck in traffic evacuating a city, your screwed unless you can drive through rough terrain.

Keep your car filled with gas. Really important if you have to bug out with everyone else.

Take care of your feet! It is easy to forget this since you can shower everyday, but out in the wilderness you must make sure to keep your feet dry and warm. Frostbite and trench foot are bad enough for a well trained/suplied soldier, and for an undersuplied group of people with little training could cause major problems.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 01:58 AM
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Seperation anxiety(loved ones missing)


Preparation is the key here. Have some real honest discussions with your loved ones now. Tell them what you need them to know, ask them what you need to know. Leave no stone unturned. Resolve long-standing conflicts. Once you are separated, you will be left with guilt, asking "what if". This is called survivor guilt. Additionally, not knowing where they are may influence your decision-making about your own survival (i.e. don't know where mum and dad are at, better stick around). Develop a plan with your loved ones for such a scenario. Keep a small journal of your conversations so you can keep it with you always. By doing all of this, you will also avoid survivor guilt. The conversation may initially seem pretty bizarre, but if you present your case in a logical and emotionally caring way, they should be receptive. If they are not receptive, that should speak volumes in and of itself. Your choice is fairly clear.

If we look at the holocaust, we see a great deal of posttraumatic stress disorder manifest in the surviving members of families. If such a brutal scenario were to occur again, you can expect to experience some serious symptoms of anxiety. Quite simply, some people's minds will not hold up, because the shock of everything happening at once will be too much to handle. You need to learn how to recognize individuals who may pose a threat to your safety. You will not be able to trust people you run into in your journeys (assuming you are fleeing into the wild), particularly if they have nothing to lose. It may come down to an "either/or" situation.

Sticking with other like-minded individuals (whom you trust with your life) is a good idea because you will have people to talk to, in order to discharge the anxiety. They will be able to provide safety as well as a pooling of resources. Be warned, you will need to be very careful to maintain morale and avoid in-fighting. Do you trust that one of these people would not try to harm you in your sleep, or steal your resources?

Preparation is the key to surviving the assault on the mind.
MK



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 04:38 AM
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I really like what I am hearing. Great tips everyone.

Alternative heaven,

I completely agree that water is much more important than food. However, without food, we will have no energy or strength, and in such a situation, we will need a lot of engery and strength.

So I propose we discuss some possible food solutions. All I can think of, is stocking up on freeze-dried or MRE's. Which does not sound practical, as storing such a huge supply in a back-pack would:
1)Add to much weight
2) Take up too much space

Growing own food, in which case we would need to be closeby to a fertile land. I know very little about farming and agriculture myself. We could also eat edible plants, but that would probably not provide enough calories or protein for sustenance. If worse comes to worst, then hunting game or eating insects(I am vegeterian)

American Mad Man,

I agree with your terrain tips. However, I do think woodlands has it's disadvantages.

1. It is the terrain of choice. If you can think it, so will other survivalists, and so will police forces.

2. I would imagine the woods would be quite close to the city, and it would just be a matter of time before you are found. Especially if you are burning wood; smoke can be seen from miles.

3. There are not many places you could reside in the woods, unless you plan on building a tree house, which I am sure will not be suspicious at all(pun intended) The same for tents.

4. If there is a war, then a fire could quickly spread throughout the woods.

Overall, even though the woods is the best for food and water, it does not seem very secure to live in.

Mountains:

Disadvantages:

1. Very cold. As you pointed out, as mountains are at high altitutes, they are cold. Also, the air is thinner to breathe. It would a harsh terrain to live in and we would have to be prepared for extreme cold survival.

2. Very few places to move to if found.

3. Very few things to eat, or probably nothing to eat. Food would have to be grown. A very unlikely prospect. Then again, the incans managed to farm in mountain regions.

Advantages:
1. Possibly the safest place to be from the police forces, other people, floods, wars and earthquakes(?) If high enough, would it be less affected by radiation from a ground based nuclear attack?

2. If a water fountain is nearby, then an inexhaustable supply of water.

3. Could reside in a mountain cave.

Overall, the mountain provides one of the safest places to be in from all the disasters, and if situated near a waterfall, takes care for the water need, However it's disadvantages are equal and opposite: extreme cold weather survival and the lack of a food base. All food would have to have been stocked up previously.

I am not going to analyse the jungle terrain. While it certainly would be safter than woods, living alongside with dangerous animals, does not sound in the least appealing.

On the tell-tale signs of the NWO. There have been tell-tale signs for more than a decade now. 9/11 was the biggest tell-tale sign. The next is not going to be a sign, it's going to be the enforcement. State of emergency would be declared immediately in the event of the staged attack. I would imagine the initial brunt of it will be felt by the immigrants, foreigners, and in particular the muslims. That is how Hitler enslaved the Germans, he initially started by singling out the Jewish, playing up on existing prejudices against them and cultivating hatred against them, to distract the German public, and then doing the same to Germans. He did it very systematically: jews, homosexuals, mental health paitents, foreigners and then the average german. It is the age-old, divide and rule, by fragmenting society into groups and divisions, people do not care for others.

MKULTRA,

Absolutely, that's I why I mention seperation anxiety as a survival danger. I know myself, if I were seperated from my family, I would become so demoralized that I may just not go on. The psychological aspect of survival is almost as debilitating as the physical colds itself.
Another thing that is important, is leadership. If we are going to lead a group of people, then someone has to assume the role of the leader. I am not very good at assuming the role of the leader in social groups, as people generally go for the one who is the most popular, most strong, most rich etc. So developing some leadership skils may come in handy.
I am very much alone here. All I have is my family(my mother) and my dog. My friends do not believe anything will happen, and those who do believe, do not want to prepare. So on the group front, there are few I could discharge in.

Ideally, we need at least a group of 5-10 people, whom we can trust with our lives. We will need to mobilize to survive. More minds are better than one.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 06:54 AM
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i think its better to fight than hide. a bullet will end ur life in a matter of minutes . but hunger and starvation will slowly kill u .



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by mfourl
The people that survie will be the rich fu****s with underground arks


How many rich people do you think actually spend their money on
survivalist needs? Betchya very very few, if any. Most folks now
a days are in the 'it couldn't happen to me' mode. The super rich,
the ones that could afford an underground ark, are too busy buying
jewlery, multiple homes, boats, botox, plastic surgery. I'm sure
they think they'd never have to worry about anything because
they have all the $$$.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 09:47 AM
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Glad to see such involved discussion


Food is definately something to disucss as you pointed out its not practical to schlep around 150lbs of food on your back. I would say its going to be a situation where your going to have to sacrifice your normal food intake. Learning to eat light and conserve what food you have is probably the best way to go as you can't rely on forraging or hunting, neither are a sure-fire solution to the problem of hunger. If your continually moving I would say make a habbit of moving for three days, then stopping for one to hunt and forrage to stock up, then move again. This gives you a whole 24 hours to rest and just look for food instead of traveling. If you make a good haul on a forrage day, then you could extend your travel days accordingly.

Wooded areas near cities definately wont stay safe for very long, so covering distance to get farther away would be a good idea in the days immediately following the onset of the mentioned scenario. National Forrests are a good suggestion, as they are huge and it takes alot of manpower to search an entire forrest, especially during the spring and summer when the foliage is too dense to use helicopters. Also not all wood is equal in terms of smoke, the survival guide I mentioned earlier outlines how different types of wood burn and their proerties smoke-wise. Permenant housing is inadvisable unless you are in true backcountry where not even hunters have tread. Its not that difficult to toss leaves and small twigs over a tent or tarp to disguise it; i regularly build simple shelter/blinds during hunting season to keep the wind off of me and so I can stay dry, and from the top view the shelters are impossible to spot.

Security in the woods depends on if you know the land and how comfortable and in-tune you are. Something I have noticed as a sign something is amiss is a lack of sound; there are natrual sounds that animals make when they are secure and content, when they stop making them something has caused them to take notice and go on the alert and you should too. Once you know how to track and avoid being tracked you can tell when animal or human has been near your camp.

I guess as a native of northern virginia mountains and woods are synonomous to me. Mountains do offer good cover at least during the spring/summer in decidious(sp?) forrests, those with evergreens like pine will keep you covered all year long. Caves are a hit or miss situation, as other animals make them their homes as well such as bears, bobcats, mountain lions and others. Definately not the place for a domestic dispute between the current tennant and the prospective. Also be wary of old mines, they may seem like an ideal place, but often are shut down due to instability or buildup of poisionous gasses such as radon.

To address the comments about a quick death versus hunger and starvation, seldom does hunger get to kill you, you sooner die without water. Depending on your body-fat level you can live for a month without any food, but try going a few days without any fluid/water intake and your going to wither away to nothing very quickly. Besides with the advancement of less-than-letal technology it would be fairly easy to make someone surrender and join herds in internment camps, and would you really want that over a shot at survival on your own?

Something I think we havent really hit on in particular is survival during different types of weather such as snow, rain, thunderstorms, extreme cold and others.

Snow

This can be very dangerous for many reasons. If your camped under trees, they can dump massive ammounts of snow on your site, extinguishing fires, crushing shelters, and also getting you wet! Being cold and wet really dampens the spirit and the will to survive/live, so snow makes for very dangrous situations. I would advise against ice/show shelters unless its a last-resort. While the water may be plentiful from melting snow, if NBC weapons have been used in battle be careful!

Rain

Depending on the terrain you are camped on rain can be a problem. Don't camp on slopes where there are signs of runoff. Also avoid areas that can develop standing water during the warm months, they are prime breeding grounds for mosquitos that carry all sorts of nasty diseases.

Thunderstorms

While brining all the normal troubles of rain, thunderstorms add a level of unpredictability. They can spawn tornoados, hail, lighting, and flash floods. Tree's are not not a good idea for shelter during these. Lighting strikes the highest point in an area and follows the path of least resistance. If your camped in a field, move to the edge of it and make yourself as low to the ground as possible. If in a forrest keeping low is still key, or find a rock overhang or cave to sheild yourself in untill the storm passes.

Extreme Cold

The cold saps your energy as quick as anyting else, so this makes things difficult. Many hunters already know this, some of you may not; the coldest time of the day is one hour before sunrise, so avoid that time during cold periods. Staying warm is key, but often fires are not possible if it risks discovery. Huddling close to others helps to share body heat. If you have a space blanket in your pack wrap yourself in it; they reflect 98% of radiated bodyheat! Also note that some movement such as pacing or short walks helps keep the blood flowing and warms you up. Avoid getting wet during these times, it makes you absolutely miserable and is a opening for sickness to set in.

Extreme Heat

This is just as bad as cold but for different reasons. Your body uses more fluids to cool you via perspiration, so the need for proper hydration becomes even more important; especially during physical extertion such as hiking, cutting wood, etc. Avoid prolonged exposure to the sun when its at its high point in the sky, wait till it lowers before doing traveling so your not cooking yourself and take rests frequently to have some water and allow yourself to cool down. Also conserve your water during these times as it may not be as abundant depending on the region and temperature.



[edit on 11-10-2004 by alternateheaven]



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 12:07 PM
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Here is a very breif collection of links that anyone interested in survival may want to check out. Unfortunately I don't know of equvilant stores and magazines based in Europe, so alot of these may only be of help to those in the US. I will add to this list when I get home and have access to my usual collection of bookmarks.

Information Sources

FM 21-76-1 - Survival, Evasion and Recovery field manual
Survivalist Books
Backwoods Home Magazine
Mother Earth News Magazine

Products, Tools and Supplies

Cheapter than Dirt! - military surplus and outdoor supplies
US Cavalry - military surplus catalog
Cabelas - everything outdoor related
BlackHawk Industries - expensive but quality packs, harnesses and accessories




[edit on 11-10-2004 by alternateheaven]



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 06:50 PM
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Alternate heaven, more great tips. Keep em coming.

I have just thought of something extra for initial survival back-pack. I put in two jumpers in my back-pack, a 55+15 litre bag. I immediately found how the the folded jumpers took a lot of space. I was able to regain more space by not folding them. However, it is obvious if I add a sleeping bag, a rope, a blanket etc, I will be limited on space for food, water and other stuff. Not good.

So a more space efficient approach is in order. For this I recommend a space saving bag, that was able to store entire wardrobes of clothes in a single small packet(could be easily stored in a back-pack) It worked in the same way food is stored in vacuum sealed packets, using a vacuum cleaner, pump or a one vale air-way system(travelling bags) all the air is drawn out to create a vacuum, reducing storage space by 75-100%

3 Medium Carry-On Size Space-Savers (14" x 20") Each holds: 1 sweater, 1 pair pants, 2 shirts + more

2 Large Suitcase-Size Space-Savers (18" x 23") Each holds: 1 trench coat, 1 parka, 1 sweater + more

This is a very effective solution to the storage problem, thus allowing us to take even more changes of clothes and other necessary items with us.

More here: govacuum.com...

Some items on extreme cold survival:

A few pairs of thermal socks
Thermal top and bottom
Thermal gloves
multiple layers of light clothes
A fleece jacket
A beanie
Ear muffs
A scarf
Sunglasses

The following site is a gem for cold survival: www.three-peaks.net...

[edit on 11-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 07:06 PM
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Here is the only tip I have for you:

Swords don't need ammo.



posted on Oct, 11 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Here is the only tip I have for you:

Swords don't need ammo.


And a gun and ammo can quickly take your sword.




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