Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
“We are not illegitimate children,” (ouch!)

If that was directed at me then sorry I don't give scripture much credit. I am an atheist so your gonna have to come from the other direction.

No no, it has to do with something about Jesus that's been covered in this thread, that's all.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

That it means nothing to you doesn't mean that it (the Great Work) has no meaning.

That it means much to you doesn't mean that it really means anything or that it even exists.

Others have said it before and I must say that they are right. Why not lay out your knowledge in plain language instead of telling people to read the gospels with an open mind? Point out what you are talking about then maybe a real discussion can be had instead of you wiggling out using pseudo-mystical phrases.

reply to post by daskakik

If you can't see it by now, then my distilling it into a small pearl for you to attack and refute as a self-professed atheist, won't add any value to this thread, never mind to the meaning, purpose and value of the Great Work as it may apply to others. I'm sorry can't help you there I don't think, and to "get it" one WOULD need to re-read the Gospels with an open mind for further understanding, which this thread can help to unlock for those who are willing to conduct a new investigation, free from any sort of contemptuous bias or preconception.

By now I've said just about everything there is to say, and now I'm wasting valuable time and energy.

You've already made up your mind anyway, so why are you even here to begin with?

I've gone to great lengths and efforts to put forward a lot of content here, and my intention is and has been entirely genuine and sincere. Read it, and gather from it what you will, or move on, but I won't be baited by disingenuous inquiries by atheists who have no intention whatsoever to even begin to try to understand what this thread is all about or what I've tried to convey in so many words, pics, vids and posts. Enough's enough.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

If you can't see it by now, then my distilling it into a small pearl for you to attack and refut as a self-professed atheist, won't add any value to this thread, never mind to the meaning, purpose and value of the Great Work as it may apply to others. I'm sorry can't help you there I don't think, and to "get it" one WOULD need to re-read the Gospels with an open mind for further understanding, which this thread can help to unlock for those who are willing to conduct a new investigation, free from any sort of contemptuous bais or preconception.

Actually, for us to "get" what you think you "got", you would first have to say what that is. It is kinda tough to have a real conversation when you don't ante up anything but a couple bible quotes and things like "this says it all" or "it couldn't be clearer" when you haven't told others what you are talking about.

By now I've said just about everything there is to say, and now I'm wasting valuable time and energy.

You really haven't said anything concrete. Should I take this as admission of you not really having anything to share.

You've already made up your mind anyway, so why are you even here to begin with?

No I haven't and when someone says they have something they want to share I am prepared to accept any new facts and make the obvious changes in my beliefs. Honestly you seem to be guilty of what you are accusing me of.

ETA:

I've gone to great lengths and efforts to put forward a lot of content here, and my intention is and has been entirely genuine and sincere. Read it, and gather from it what you will, or move on, but I won't be baited by disingenuous inquiries by atheists who have no intention whatsoever to even begin to try to understand what this thread is all about or what I've tried to convey in so many words, pics, vids and posts. Enough's enough.

Well that is the problem, you have not conveyed anything concrete. The only ones that think they get what you are trying to convey are the ones that don't need convincing because they have already convinced themselves.

Pretty much makes your entire effort a "waste of valuable time and energy".

reply to post by NewAgeMan


"How did he know?!"

because what he is,,,is what knowing is....

reply to post by daskakik

It's too late for this. If you haven't seen anything meaningful or of value to you presented in this thread, then sorry I couldn't help you to see and consider something you might not have otherwise seen or considered, before. It's not everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, but please don't accuse me of not having tried or put forth the effort. I even said from the outset that for some, what would be presented in this thread wouldn't make any sense and that it wouldn't compute for them, because it really does require a truly open mind, and "atheist" doesn't qualify as an open mind.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

"How did he know?!"

because what he is,,,is what knowing is....

There's slightly more to it than that when we consider the "superdeterministic" aspect of something known from the beginning and then built right into the very design for a reason and a purpose known already, in advance, by the only one who could possible know such a thing, in advance.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus

I would respond to this with irrefutable, scientific, rational logic, but I don't even know what it means!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Good question!

Magnum Opus, means Great Work, in this case as the culmination of the efforts of many over a very longg period, to realize an ideal of perfection, and complete the process in it's final realization.

Cosmological, is fairly self explanaatory and means of cosmic proportions, or universal.

Superdeterminism, I'm using that in a different sense from the standard quantum physics model term, which is used to invalidate Bell's Theorem showing transluminal interconnectedness or what Einstein and others called "spooky action at a distance", to mean, in this case - already established, from a first/last cause in eternity, or simply put, something that was inevitable, because it's eventuality was already imbedded, by design, into the creation, such that it could only arise, and be seen as having arisen, as a result of a creative intent, and a level of foreknowledge and high precision design-control, that can only have initiated already with the end in mind, from the very beginning, including, by extension, the formation of the entire universe itself, with earth and the human being included as an integral part of the big BIG picture, if you will, even yes as a cosmic, evolutionary process. The point where God catches up with himself in the person of the son of God etering the scene to complete the previously "unfinished business", left only for he himself to complete. So a marker was left, in the divine order of creation by which Jesus was recognized by the Magi, and came to recognize himself as having a very special task to perform - his Great Work aka Magnum Opus, which has now been established (from a whole host of angles and perspective, including astronomical vectors) at a point in time and history, which for all due purposes and in the grand scheme of things might well have happened yesterday as it did about 2000 years ago.

(whispered in the ear during the Freemasonic rite of passage, to the Master Mason initiate)
"Ma-Ha-Bone" - What? The Builder! (shhhh! It's a secret.)

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
~ Revelation 22:13

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

It's too late for this. If you haven't seen anything meaningful or of value to you presented in this thread, then sorry I couldn't help you to see and consider something you might not have otherwise seen or considered, before. It's not everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, but please don't accuse me of not having tried or put forth the effort. I even said from the outset that for some, what would be presented in this thread wouldn't make any sense and that it wouldn't compute for them, because it really does require a truly open mind, and "atheist" doesn't qualify as an open mind.

Well, I don't really need your Christ-centered path to enlightenment. I was thinking about your Christian audience which will not see what you mean because it looks just like any other Christian thread.

Sorry but an atheist that is ready to acknowledge the existence of god if moved to by hard cold facts or personal paranormal experience is much more open minded than someone who sees the questioning of Jesus as blasphemy. That is probably what pops out from this thread to anyone reading it.

reply to post by daskakik

No I was only your "implication" of John being of God and Jesus, Satan, of John leading people to heaven and Jesus, to hell, which I felt was um, going a little too far, perhaps... in the interpretation of daVinci's work, particularly when framed within the context by which these individuals are presented to us, through the Gospels and the prophetic framework of the Bible, which implies no such thing at all. Only did I think that that bordered on the "blasphemous".. while other "attacks" (disagreement) by you and others simply seemed to reveal a certain type of revulsion if you will towards Christ (and his Great Work) as the personification or embodiment and symbolic representation of God's love, which I suggested was largely due simply to an anti-religious bias, one which I am prepared to set aside in search of the truth.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

No I was only your implication of John being of God and Jesus, Satan, of John leading people to heaven and Jesus, to hell, which I felt was um, going a little too far, perhaps... in the interpretation of daVinci's work, particularly when framed within the context by which these people are presented to us, through the Gospels and the prophetic framework of the Bible, which implies no such thing at all. Only did I think that that bordered on the blasphemous.

Maybe that is all you meant but that is not the way it looked.

You have to admit that not wanting to acknowledge alternative paths to enlightenment, even though you seem to accept that others have reached it, seems to be quite a contraindication, as well as closed minded.

Like I said in a previous post, I think you have become like those which you wished to enlighten. I think that if you really had hold of the truth you would realize that any path can lead you to it. You wanting to only give credence to "whatever you call this", makes me think that you do not.

reply to post by daskakik

That's not what this thread is about, which is about what might be thought of as the capstone of all the spiritual and religious traditions and philosophies, at whose core and heart, resides the final resolution to the age old problem of human sin/evil, in a ritualized performance pointing to an even greater triumph (if that weren't enough), including the opening up for us of a whole new domain of absolute freedom/liberation and eternal life and new creation, as the very fount of God's love which is eternal and can never die - handed to us, free of charge! (I was going to say "on a silver platter", but I don't want John losing his head again).

Don't bogart that acid.

Originally posted by Star128
Don't bogart that acid.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

That's not what this thread is about, which is about what might be thought of as the capstone of all the spiritual and religious traditions and philosophies, at whose core and heart, resides the final resolution to the age old problem of human sin/evil,

The fact that you believe that this "problem" even exists makes me doubt your claim to enlightenment and truth.

including the opening up for us of a whole new domain of absolute freedom/liberation and eternal life and new creation, as the very fount of God's love which is eternal and can never die - handed to us free of charge (I was going to say on a silver platter, but I don't want John losing his head again).

Sorry but that sounds like regular old Christianity to me.

That domain you speak of has always been there and the things found there have always been free of charge. I have yet to see god or feel his love but I have seen and felt things which I did and, I guess others could mistake for these things. This is how I suppose different religions came about and the reason why I say that there isn't just one path.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


"There's slightly more to it than that when we consider the "superdeterministic" aspect of something known from the beginning and then built right into the very design for a reason and a purpose known already, in advance, by the only one who could possible know such a thing, in advance. "

I was only trying to say something cute,,, god is referred to as the truth.,.,. in order to know,, what you know must be something true by deffiniton of the terms and concepts.,,., therefore,,, god knew,,,,because god is what the truth entails,,,,, knowing the truth is what god represents,,,, for a human to know gods truth ( like jesus) ,,,, a human knows god,,, or according to christianity,, is synonymous with god,,,

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Do you believe there may be life on other planets?

if so, do you believe jesus pops up on all those planets?

do you believe god has the same grand plans for all these planets of life forms?

reply to post by daskakik

I've contemplated these things as well, very very deeply, and I've come to the space of nothing or what might be thought of as the "holy of holies" and on that unconditioned ground of being and becoming, it came to me clear as day that the only thing worth doing, when there's nothing left that we must do or are compelled to do, is to love.

However, for many of us, if not all of us, because of abuses of power, and sins committed both against us, and by us towards others, we are not fully reconciled with the center and source of life, absent a real and everlasting Justice, without which life, and the potential for the full enjoyment of life, can lose it's luster let us say, and terminate, not in everlasting life and enjoyment, but in a grave insult, including one whereby death has the last word with our life and life itself rendered meaningless, purposeless and absurd, in the grand scheme of things.

Thus, the Great Work of Jesus Christ, as a representation of the height of the twin pillars of a severe Justice and a tender Mercy, and as a Passover of life and human history, holds imbedded within itself the possibility and eventual actuality, of the restoration of our good-willed, good-natured, humor, charm, and joyfullness, and childlike playfulness (creativity) without measure, or constraint, such that, at the end of the day and in the final analysis, the answer to the question of "Because why?" may be given, as "Because I love you!".

This reason, absent an eternal Justice, just wouldn't work, as the opportunity for everlasting joy is eventually taken down by the absurdity of the injustices of the human experience via the "sins of the father" which goes down through the generations and into the fog and mist of an historical inderminacy (unless we adopt the allegorical mythology of the Garden of Eden as the explanation).

Originally posted by daskakikThe fact that you believe that this "problem" even exists makes me doubt your claim to enlightenment and truth.

How can you say it's not a problem, and has not been a "problem" whose resolution was and is neccessary?

And bear in mind too that I attempting to talk here about the REAL meaning and signicance of something otherwise largely misunderstood and misinterpreted when I refer to Jesus' Great Work as the resolution to the problem of human sin/evil once and for all time. (yes I know much evil has been committed by wicked men in the so-called name of Jesus Christ over the centuries, but that's not his fault).

Originally posted by daskakik
I have yet to see god or feel his love but I have seen and felt things which I did and, I guess others could mistake for these things. This is how I suppose different religions came about and the reason why I say that there isn't just one path.

Forgive me as I don't mean to be too harsh, but you don't present yourself, at lest "textually" as the warmest, most kind-hearted and loving person I've come across and I'm pretty good at reading between the lines between the lines, oh maybe with your own friends and aquaintances, that's easy enough to do. Jesus also speaks to this in the Gospels, about how to really love where the rubber meets the read and goes places far and wide.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

1) Do you believe there may be life on other planets?

2) if so, do you believe jesus pops up on all those planets?

3) do you believe god has the same grand plans for all these planets of life forms?

1) Yes I do.
2) No, since Jesus was a human being.
3) Not the same, since they involve different types of spiritual experience, but a "grand plan" for all these planets and lifeforms, yes, certainty.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


If Jesus was a human being and so are we, what makes you think we cannot achieve what he achieved?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You've missed the whole point, it's not a competition, but a win/win/win all around, who's aim it is that we will become ever-increasingly like him. The very desire to match him one-to-one, or surpass him, or render him and his work unneccessary, demonstrates in and of itself that you've work to do in the area of humility, where it may be said both that the greatest among us will be the servant of all, and, that the student cannot and need not be as great as the master. Again, understanding him and moving into sympathetic, harmonious alignment with him and his love, and mind, results in upliftment and even a radical, transformative, evolutionary growth, what more can a person ask for? Why must one among us replace Jesus, reach his full stature without any further need of him as a model of perfection? That smacks of the spirit of anti-Christ, and trust me on this one - what goes up, must come down and pride always goeth before the fall, there's no need to make that same mistake. Instead, let's follow him and become the very best that we can be in the same image and likeness and grow to become like him, which is the whole idea in the first place. Then, in proper alignment with him, and in the spirit of humility (which he had), we will "achieve" some things that are even greater, like he said we would ie: where he gave sight to a few people, we might open the eyes of many, and where he healed some, we might cause to be healed many, where he preached to 100's, we might get the word out to millions, where he bound the strong man in one sphere, we might do it in many spheres and then some. Anything's possible, but the NEED to achieve greater things, that's just pride and arrogance, even jealousy, which certainly won't harness the power to do anything even approaching what he did. Apart from him we can do nothing.