Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

reply to post by ImaFungi

Me I have no problem giving credit where credit is due. Doesn't phase me in the least. Only my pride would stand in the way of it, of submitting or humbling myself before the greater Glory of the living God made manifest and made known. I don't need to do mental gymastics to avoid the implications of Christ as God. He elevates me/us, and I can see in him that for him it was all about us anyway, so why would I want to evade him or avoid him, go around him or try to go over him or by some other way, how stupid would that be, it makes no sense whatsoever to try to elevate myself by downgrading Christ, that's absurd imho.

He made it all about us, but because it contends directly with our pride and sinful nature, we tend to rebel against it in willful ignorance, and avoidance, instead of opening our eyes and hearts to it's prescious nature as the greatest gift of all time that it really is and signifies..

That said neither do I need to shove it down anyone's throat. Nevertheless, it's not too hard to spot their motivations in the face of it..

Love,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

NewAgeMan, I don't know if you recall me. Last time we had any real interchange, if memory serves me, we kind of settled on the fact that you wanted to bring a different view of the universe to those of the christian faith using Jesus.

I understood different as different to the dogma and empty rhetoric of today's christian denominations. I have since then seen your posts popping up in different threads and, to be honest, don't usually read them. I figured you were just doing your thing.

I have to say that your words accusing people who question Jesus as the truth and the way, as blasphemy, makes me think you fallen into the same trap as those who you were trying to enlighten.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


" and I can see in him that for him it was all about us anyway, so why would I want to evade him or avoid him, go around him or try to go over him or by some other way, how stupid would that be, it makes no sense whatsoever to try to elevate myself by downgrading Christ, that's absurd imho. "

yea yea,.,., my line of thinking though is christianity is mainly about christ,,, and christ was mainly about humanity,.,.,. so i think christ himself would be ashamed or embarrassed by all the constant worship of himself, instead of followers of his word working to establish his word and way as truth for the living now and later,,,
if you were jesus back then,,, and you could now peer down on earth today,, would you be happy and bask in your glory to view the fandom of your celebrity,,, or would think to yourself,,, wow they are really missing the point,, it is not i that need to be glorified,, it is nature and humanity and their individual selves that is gods true living work and pride.,.,,.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


This came up in another thread and thought it related to what we were just talking about.,,.,.,.,.,,.,..,

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by BIHOTZ

 

This is a trick question. If all three religions believed that you were the Messiah then that would make you their Messiah. No need to lie.

The sign of a false prophet or Messiah is one who declares themself to be that, i.e. prophet or Messiah. A true Messiah would be one that all people believe to be their Messiah not one who simply declares himself one.

What does the good book have to say about this when Jesus was asked if he was the Messiah.

Mark 8:29

Jesus asked the followers, "Who do people say I am?" The followers answered, "Some people say you are John the Baptizer. Other people say you are Elijah. And other people say that you are one of the prophets." Then Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?" Peter answered, "You are the Christ." Jesus told the followers, "Don't tell any person who I am."

It is of my personal belief that Jesus never declared himself to be a prophet or Messiah. It was the people that believed this to be so and thus it was so. The reason Jesus instructs his followers not to tell others who he was is because that would make it wrong. It is up to the induvidual to decide for themself. In this way it is the thought that creates the reality.

in focusing on so much of the magic of christ,, and god doesnt hate us for our sins because his son died for them stuff,.,.,. its kind of like the catholic church is the anti christ,,,, and turned all potential followers of jesus' word,,, all good willed and pure people who love life and man kind,,,, the church turned these people into the sheep that jesus attempted to freed,,,,,,, the church is jesus' biggest enemy...

reply to post by daskakik

If Jesus wasn't who he said he was, which I've discovered to be valid, then he was a liar, which his character reveals, isn't so, but that instead he was an honest and humble servant leader.

I was moreso referring actually to something you said about John the Baptist being of God and the way to heaven and Jesus the um, opposite of that, although I do realize you were referring to daVinci's presentation of John, but how quick people are to try to bring Christ into disrepute, even those who've read the gospels, is astounding to me, although I think I do understand something of the nature of the resistence, which is born largely of an anti-religious sentiment more than anything based in the spirit of truth and love which Jesus embodied and personified. Personally I can set that negative bias aside in my investigative inquiries enough to find the diamond of truth in spite of how it's been misused and abused over the centuries, with the aim, having found it, to bring it to light outside of the confines of the church, which is what I mean when I say that the genie is fast coming out of the stained glass bottle floated down over the centuries containing a message intended for this generation, at this moment in history.

reply to post by ImaFungi

It is possible that they've erected Christ, solely represented as being on the cross, within what's called the "divided middle" as a point of leverage by which to collect the spiritual energies of the people, in service not to God but the enemy of God and man, in large part as a permissive framework for evil ie: for warfare (blood sacrifice), and according to the cowardly position, relative to the evil one, that "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". If so, theirs would be a house divided, which goes THUMP, while the true House of the Lord remains eternal and encompasses the entire depth and breadth of the heavens, his Love as tall as the twin pillars of Justice and Mercy, which stretch from one end, to the other.

For more on this idea, see that Salvation Army emblam again that I posted earlier which would have been made by the Rothschild family as its founder who have VERY close ties with the Vatican as a center of power.

But you are right that Jesus' objective was our absolute and unfettered, unconstrained Liberation under Grace, whereby we are set free, entirely free, to love as we are loved, or in the words of St. Augustine, to "love, and do as you will."

I've noticed in some Catholics a strange self-satisfaction which doesn't extend authentic love, while "pasting the face" with another spirit of sorts, it's hard to explain, but it's not love as I know it, see it, feel it, and have it for others.

But this isn't a Catholic Church bashing thread, even though Catholic does mean "Universal".

I'll admit that something's "off" though regarding the Church's "bottling" up of Christ and then operating as the dispensory (mediator) of his spirit through the giving of the communion (which is the secret of the power). This is where I would draw the distinction between the handing out of that circle-wafered communion, and real and authentic koinonia.

Originally posted by NaturalHealer
Leonardo held Christ in great contempt. He believed him to be a back-stabbing fraud, a thief of the throne of Israel, the usurper of John the Baptist, who was considered by many to be the true claim to King David’s crown, a real crown born of politics and not spirituality.

There is no possible way that I can provide all of the details to you in the context of a single post. For this reason, I again urge you to pick up a copy of, “Holy Blood, Holy Grail”.

By no means does this text provide all of the answers, but it provides a tremendous amount of clues about how corrupted the message of Christ, the past and current political system, and even why Hilary Clinton often wears a double-headed eagle pin on frequent occasion. (Although the writers, self-professed atheists, almost writhe in glee at times in their pitch to convince the reader that Jesus was a fraud.)

I can only imagine..

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

" and I can see in him that for him it was all about us anyway, so why would I want to evade him or avoid him, go around him or try to go over him or by some other way, how stupid would that be, it makes no sense whatsoever to try to elevate myself by downgrading Christ, that's absurd imho. "

yea yea,.,., my line of thinking though is christianity is mainly about christ,,, and christ was mainly about humanity,.,.,. so i think christ himself would be ashamed or embarrassed by all the constant worship of himself, instead of followers of his word working to establish his word and way as truth for the living now and later,,,
if you were jesus back then,,, and you could now peer down on earth today,, would you be happy and bask in your glory to view the fandom of your celebrity,,, or would think to yourself,,, wow they are really missing the point,, it is not i that need to be glorified,, it is nature and humanity and their individual selves that is gods true living work and pride.,.,,.

Good post, I agree, but he CAN peer down, and he is, maybe even standing right now, at the opened doorway, which is a great and joyful thing for many of us, and what we've been waiting for, and an absolute terror for those who've knowingly betrayed him, to have him there, at the gate of heaven relative to us as we are at this very moment in human history.

Jesus Christ is not the left arm of God. He is the whole person of God, with absolute integrity and wholeness.

The Humbled and Exalted Christ

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

~ Philippians 2:5-11
(Italics as it is written here)
www.biblegateway.com...

What mourning there is for those who knew, but who are either unwilling to bow the knee, or for whom that oppportunity may have already passed them by.. and what immense blessings there are for those who, upon recognition, freely bowed, freely cried and freely laughed out loud.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

If Jesus wasn't who he said he was, which I've discovered to be valid, then he was a liar, which his character reveals, isn't so, but that instead he was an honest and humble servant leader.

Sorry but you are mistaken. Jesus didn't write the bible so whatever lies which may have been written into it would not have been his words so they would not necessarily make him a liar.

I was moreso referring actually to something you said about John the Baptist being of God and the way to heaven and Jesus the um, opposite of that, although I do realize you were referring to daVinci's presentation of John, but how quick people are to try to bring Christ into disrepute, even those who've read the gospels, is astounding to me, although I think I do understand something of the nature of the resistence, which is born largely of an anti-religious sentiment more than anything based in the spirit of truth and love which Jesus embodied and personified.

You seem to have changed what I saw as your focus of showing humanity that he was the model to emulate to one of worshiping Christ.

Personally I can set that negative bias aside in my investigative inquiries enough to find the diamond of truth in spite of how it's been misused and abused over the centuries, with the aim, having found it, to bring it to light outside of the confines of the church, which is what I mean when I say that the genie is fast coming out of the stained glass bottle floated down over the centuries containing a message intended for this generation, at this moment in history.

But you seem unable to set aside your personal bias and preconceived notion that Jesus has to be the way. Bias is bias and will always obscure the truth.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Add common sense to what's being said...

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If God came in the flesh, why would God rather stick to another name? Why would the name be important in the first place? Why would God use Lord as a middleman? Moreover, have us consider bowing to a middleman instead of the Creator? So if beyond realizing you're God in the flesh, why not take care of business instead of jerking disciples around with writing everything down? Holy Books aren't even redundant, and yet they still have too many pages. I'm pretty sure God had heard of sending mix messages after we fumbled word of mouth at or near the third of forth pass of information. If anyone had it right, it was Moses... Draft ten then mosey on out of town.


If you require a belief system, make doing good your religion.

His character shines through, his genius is unsurpassed, and his name denotes the person in whom God is glorified (recognized), and mankind, uplifted.

So much misunderstanding, so many assumptions, so much evasion, but it's so unnecessary, if only we might seek him out, and in finding him, rejoice!

It's not a doctrine of good works, but an unmerited gift of grace! All we need, having found it, is the courage to recieve what's being freely offered us, and then enjoy it, as the essential thing (x factor) that truly satisfies and the life that never ends, in Love, the love of the father in the son and of the son, for us all. It's the very reason for creation!

And it transcends the duality of should and shouldn't (and of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil), and moves us on a flowing river of life (non dual), from what was, through what is, to what ought to be, born and reborn out of Love. It's an absolute liberation, by an absolute, perfect love.

"I am the alpha and the omega, the first, and the last."

How can we be so blind?

What is it in us or about us, which rebels against such a precious gift of grace (action of God's love) where such a love to be love must be made known (manifest) in time and history, in absolute terms, and yet without any compromise whatsoever?

Does it frighten us? Are we not worthy? Perhaps that's the rub, that we aren't or weren't worthy of being in receipt of gift of incalculable value that we can neither earn nor deserve, but that's FUNNY! I can't be the only one to "grok" this - why it would cause the knee to bow, or a person to burst out in tears both of sorrow and regret AND in joyful celebration having been punk'd by God in the most loving manner. I can't be the only one to get this.. please God let someone else understand..

reply to post by NewAgeMan

What of those who have reached that state before Jesus was even born and those that have also reached that state without invoking Jesus?

reply to post by daskakik


Good for them, but can they be counted on more than one hand, in all truth?

Krishna
Buddha
Zoroaster
_________
_________

And why, if God presents us with a Graceful gift of his Love in Christ and his Great Work, must we say in response "I don't need it I don't want it, there must be some other way to get the same thing on my own or by going anywhere else but through Jesus Christ (you).."

It's absurd. There's only one reason I can think of, and that involves the very thing that needs to be treated, at the source, in order FOR us to enter into the kingdom of God..

reply to post by NewAgeMan


"And why, if God presents us with a Graceful gift of his Love in Christ and his Great Work, must we say in response "I don't need it I don't want it, there must be some other way to get the same thing on my own or by going anywhere else but through Jesus Christ (you).."

this is more like it,,,,, if i understand what i think your now trying to get at,,, if jesus was the manifestation and physical actualization of a potential human archetype.. that in animal nature can be related to the purity and innocence of a lamb ( when compared to creatures like snakes, vultures, wolves, etc) the potential for nature to manifest, embrace, and understand the worth of being intellectually, spiritually, physically, clean and good, and honest and loving and pure..

"It's absurd. There's only one reason I can think of, and that involves the very thing that needs to be treated, at the source, in order FOR us to enter into the kingdom of God"

and if i can understand this cryptic statement,,, i believe you are suggesting people do not want to realize the jesusness of themselves because their ego...

reply to post by ImaFungi

That's very good, especially for a guy who's never read the Gospels..! Good for you!

...and there's the hidden potential for immense HUMOR in all of this, but sadly (that's funny too "sadly"), no one seems to have gotten the joke, which is as much or even moreso at the expense of the Pope as it is anyone (and everyone) in the "double bind" when it unravells the pride of the ego, such that the "beam" is removed from our own eye, allowing us to begin to see clearly, as if for the first time, just who and what we really are as we were intended to be. It makes everything about us that is ridiculous and absurd in terms of who we thought we were, including the source of our pride, utterly ridiculous and absurd in the light of the truth, which is the spiritual light of Christ who is also the shining light of reason AND spirit conjoined.

We've been overtaken by the love of God who is always both one step ahead of us all, and perfectly on time, every time.

How did he know?!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

Good for them, but can they be counted on more than one hand, in all truth?

Add Jesus to your list and you still only need one hand. Actually the list is longer than that but in either case it shows that Jesus is not required. In fact it pretty much proves that he is not the only way, as you propose and defend.

And why, if God presents us with a Graceful gift of his Love in Christ and his Great Work, must we say in response "I don't need it I don't want it, there must be some other way to get the same thing on my own or by going anywhere else but through Jesus Christ (you).."

It's absurd. There's only one reason I can think of, and that involves the very thing that needs to be treated, at the source, in order FOR us to enter into the kingdom of God..

That is assuming that god has presented us with said gift. You claim to know but I doubt your knowledge even if I don't doubt your sincerity.

31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested.

~ John 8
Whole context here
www.biblegateway.com...

“We are not illegitimate children,” (ouch!)

reply to post by daskakik

That it means nothing to you doesn't mean that it (the Great Work) has no meaning.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
“We are not illegitimate children,” (ouch!)

If that was directed at me then sorry I don't give scripture much credit. I am an atheist so your gonna have to come from the other direction.