Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by Spotless
This OP is ridiculously confusing. There were times where i she said that she's not against gay marriage, then she said she doesn't care about gay marriage at all and now she has a very anti-gay marriage stance.

"What you do in the bedroom is your choice" was mentioned numerous times as well by her. I was participating in the first ~20 pages of this thread trying to udnerstand her "confusion" about gay marriage.
You can't be neutral about gay marriage and at the same time imply that they should have their own separate ceremony, because they're not good enough to marry the traditional way. Thats straightup discrimination.

I think OPs confusion really stems from the idea that she still likes to think of herself as fair, accepting of differences and understanding of people, when really the opposite is extremely true. As she struggles to keep that shield up, even to herself, it's confusing for HER, as well as anyone conversing with her.

reply to post by thebtheb
I'm pointig out this issue because it is relevent to the thread.

People are going to do what people are going to do regardless of what I say or post. If a gay couple is going to raise a child then they'd better prepare the kid.

Because it's not going to be an easy ride.

first lets qualify the gay movement. After the phobia is gone nothing's really wrong. Elton and Ellen made it cool to be gay.Ann Haish made her career being gay, then said oops, Just Kidding!!!

Heck, what if we all end up gay?

Here lies my problem. I believe one must first and foremost be true to ones own self. If someone is truly gay, there should be no hetero sex. Not once, not ever. Not even for the sake of having a family. Not even for the sake of furthering the human race. Homosexuality cannot propagate the human race, lest we all become Asexual. Could be an evolution process but will it happen 65yrs after everybody is Gay. Yeah, 65yrs can end the human race.

Because if it's a RIGHT to be gay, then its a RIGHT for EVERYBODY to be gay.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

But now, you are talking about compounding an existing problem, by throwing an additional 10% of the population into the adoption industry. That is a sizeable amount of the population. What kind of problems is this going to have upon society when you compound by that large of a number the existing problem?

This isn't about patching a hole in a bucket

We don't deny people rights based on whether or not those rights might negatively affect existing problems

People are people Ms. B

We people - all of us being people - are equal

That's not the same thing as being the same thing

Let those people who want to deny any people rights try to explain why certain people don't deserve those rights - no matter how they try it always amounts to the same thing: You aren't good people - like we are. You are not natural people - like we are. We don't want to change - we like things the way they are. We get to decide how you will live your life - because we are good and natural - and we are the majority

But the majority changes when civilization begins to grow up and not just see things differently - but tries to look at things differently than they always have in the past. Trying is worth everything. And so it goes...

You make a great pretense of trying to understand while arguing that you've decided you can't accept this or that

You are free to accept or not accept whatever you choose - of course. That really is one of the most beautiful things about this country of ours. But - things will change around you no matter what

So, in the end - if you really feel you can't understand this whole fight for equal rights, or that you don't like the idea - and that you simply can't approve - it's good that you can at least tolerate it

Tolerance is what this is all about because equal is equal - it really is just that simple

Originally posted by rebellender
first lets qualify the gay movement. After the phobia is gone nothing's really wrong. Elton and Ellen made it cool to be gay.Ann Haish made her career being gay, then said oops, Just Kidding!!!

Heck, what if we all end up gay?

Here lies my problem. I believe one must first and foremost be true to ones own self. If someone is truly gay, there should be no hetero sex. Not once, not ever. Not even for the sake of having a family. Not even for the sake of furthering the human race. Homosexuality cannot propagate the human race, lest we all become Asexual. Could be an evolution process but will it happen 65yrs after everybody is Gay. Yeah, 65yrs can end the human race.

Because if it's a RIGHT to be gay, then its a RIGHT for EVERYBODY to be gay.

Wow - a whole new level of incomprehensible crap, which only furthers my conviction that you really will say whatever it takes.
First of all, one of the problems with society right now regarding sexuality is that everyone must be "either or". If you're straight, then you're 100% straight! If you're gay then you're 100% gay. Such is simply not the case. And in fact, I have always believed that no one would be 100% gay if we hadn't been born into a society that communicates this "either or" precept so thoroughly from birth. As in, if you're interested in the same sex, then there is NO ROOM for the opposite sex.

Anyway, so you also display one of the BIGGEST contentions people really have with gay people by saying if it's right to be gay, then it is right for everyone to be gay. I've never heard it said so directly. And that is it: if you allow gay people to be gay, then you're allowing YOURSELF the same opportunity - so you fear that by accepting gays, you're accepting the possibility in yourself. You truly think that somehow it puts your heterosexuality into jeopardy. I always thought that was a joke, or something gay people made up when they got desperate in their debates. But apparently, it's TRUE!

And if anything, people would never evolve to be asexual. They would evolve to be bi-sexual, which I think everyone, including gays, is relatively afraid of.

reply to post by beezzer

Because it's not going to be an easy ride.

but beezzer - it's so much easier now than it was even 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago - and it will only get easier - this is the beauty part of all this change. We grow into these changes - and there will always be some people who don't like the idea. And even when it's not exactly about not liking it - even when it's mostly about not understanding it or feeling comfortable with it - we accept it

There was a time when we couldn't marry outside our religion - let alone outside our ethnic group

There are still people who won't approve of either even now - but mostly no one bats an eye

If you doubt this take a look at advertising - they're already including gay couples with kids in commercials now

These kids who are growing up gay in America now are accepted in a way that simply wasn't possible a few short years ago. It's only going to get better

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer

 

Because it's not going to be an easy ride.

but beezzer - it's so much easier now than it was even 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago - and it will only get easier - this is the beauty part of all this change. We grow into these changes - and there will always be some people who don't like the idea. And even when it's not exactly about not liking it - even when it's mostly about not understanding it or feeling comfortable with it - we accept it

There was a time when we couldn't marry outside our religion - let alone outside our ethnic group

There are still people who won't approve of either even now - but mostly no one bats an eye

If you doubt this take a look at advertising - they're already including gay couples with kids in commercials now

These kids who are growing up gay in America now are accepted in a way that simply wasn't possible a few short years ago. It's only going to get better

Very true. If we had the attitude of "it's not going to be easy" about so many things in the past, I'd hate to see what we'd look like right now.

reply to post by XaniMatriX

Please don't put bible into this. Its not a valid point lol
I'll go along with you though. Adam and Eve had two sons Cain and Abel. Now tell me. How did they have children ?



@rebellender so homosexuals are cool but bisexuals are a big no no ? You can have a world of freedom or no freedom at all.

Originally posted by rebellender
first lets qualify the gay movement. After the phobia is gone nothing's really wrong. Elton and Ellen made it cool to be gay.Ann Haish made her career being gay, then said oops, Just Kidding!!!

Heck, what if we all end up gay?

Here lies my problem. I believe one must first and foremost be true to ones own self. If someone is truly gay, there should be no hetero sex. Not once, not ever. Not even for the sake of having a family. Not even for the sake of furthering the human race. Homosexuality cannot propagate the human race, lest we all become Asexual. Could be an evolution process but will it happen 65yrs after everybody is Gay. Yeah, 65yrs can end the human race.

Because if it's a RIGHT to be gay, then its a RIGHT for EVERYBODY to be gay.

oh, my sides hurt... :-)

You're really not much of a rebel - are you rebellender? You have a lot of very strict (and kinda strange) rules

No one is counting on the gays to keep the human race going - but you must realize they've always been here and are part of any existing population - right? Right now we're at 7 billion (give or take a dozen) and counting...

They're not fighting for the right to be gay rebellender :-)

They're fighting to have the same rights as people who aren't gay

and don't you worry - once they have those rights - there will still be plenty of people busy making more people

relax

but nice try with the science and all

:-)

reply to post by beezzer

Originally posted by beezzer
I think proponents of the gay lifestyle, adoption, etc. will find any reason to argue.

Those of us that don't care (just as long as my freedoms remain intact) I think irritate the proponents.

Ah, Beez... what a patriot you are. "As long as my freedoms remain in tact, I don't care about other people's freedoms. - Beezer" How does that look to you, written out like that? Can I use that in my signature line?

:shk: What a disappointment...

If it's all right for people to be gay, then it's all right for some people to be a pedophile/child molester.

Because if what was once was thought as deviant behavior is now natural and normal, then it's okay for ANY deviant behavior to become natural and normal.

And ALL deviants seek to normalize their behavior.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer

 

Because it's not going to be an easy ride.

but beezzer - it's so much easier now than it was even 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago - and it will only get easier - this is the beauty part of all this change. We grow into these changes - and there will always be some people who don't like the idea. And even when it's not exactly about not liking it - even when it's mostly about not understanding it or feeling comfortable with it - we accept it

There was a time when we couldn't marry outside our religion - let alone outside our ethnic group

There are still people who won't approve of either even now - but mostly no one bats an eye

If you doubt this take a look at advertising - they're already including gay couples with kids in commercials now

These kids who are growing up gay in America now are accepted in a way that simply wasn't possible a few short years ago. It's only going to get better

Does anybody remember that movie, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner"? Great movie about a white girl who wants to marry a black man. Spencer Tracy was the dad, and he was against the marriage - not because he was racist (he was a staunch liberal), but because he was worried that his daughter would have a difficult life ahead of her. Look how dated that movie seems now!

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
If it's all right for people to be gay, then it's all right for some people to be a pedophile/child molester.

Because if what was once was thought as deviant behavior is now natural and normal, then it's okay for ANY deviant behavior to become natural and normal.

And ALL deviants seek to normalize their behavior.

Not that tired argument again. Since when has pedophilia involved consenting adults?

reply to post by rebellender


actually - I want to say something else

Did it ever occur to you that maybe every member of any group contributes to the success of the group - and ultimately to the continuing success of humanity?

We all contribute in so many different ways on so many different levels - it's not just about making babies - it's so much more than that

Life is not simple - and then it is so simple - all at once

Our survival is in the mix - it depends on all of us

reply to post by kaylaluv


Absolutely - so many of the things that came out of the civil rights movement and that whole era seem so dated. It's hard to feel them the same way now - they barely register as significant until you stop and realize how things really were back then

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by rebellender

 

actually - I want to say something else

Did it ever occur to you that maybe every member of any group contributes to the success of the group - and ultimately to the continuing success of humanity?

We all contribute in so many different ways on so many different levels - it's not just about making babies - it's so much more than that

Life is not simple - and then it is so simple - all at once

Our survival is in the mix - it depends on all of us

Exactly. Our societies and our evolution are so much more than survival of the fittest. Someone who doesn't bare children could contribute beautiful art, or an incredible invention or a myriad of other things. In fact, right now you could even say, it's about NOT making babies, because we don't need any more right now!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by beezzer

 

Originally posted by beezzer
I think proponents of the gay lifestyle, adoption, etc. will find any reason to argue.

Those of us that don't care (just as long as my freedoms remain intact) I think irritate the proponents.

Ah, Beez... what a patriot you are. "As long as my freedoms remain in tact, I don't care about other people's freedoms. - Beezer" How does that look to you, written out like that? Can I use that in my signature line?

:shk: What a disappointment...

I guess you could look at it that way, but I won't sacrafice my freedoms for anything, especially politically correct ones.

And did I ever mention a loss of freedoms from anyone else?
Nope.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Not that old tired argument again. I wasn't saying they're the same thing. Learn to read.

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by rebellender

 

actually - I want to say something else

Did it ever occur to you that maybe every member of any group contributes to the success of the group - and ultimately to the continuing success of humanity?

We all contribute in so many different ways on so many different levels - it's not just about making babies - it's so much more than that

Life is not simple - and then it is so simple - all at once

Our survival is in the mix - it depends on all of us

Exactly. Our societies and our evolution are so much more than survival of the fittest. Someone who doesn't bare children could contribute beautiful art, or an incredible invention or a myriad of other things. In fact, right now you could even say, it's about NOT making babies, because we don't need any more right now!

Leonardo Da Vinci: artist - inventor - genius - homosexual. Didn't contribute any children, but contributed so much more.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by beezzer

 

Originally posted by beezzer
I think proponents of the gay lifestyle, adoption, etc. will find any reason to argue.

Those of us that don't care (just as long as my freedoms remain intact) I think irritate the proponents.

Ah, Beez... what a patriot you are. "As long as my freedoms remain in tact, I don't care about other people's freedoms. - Beezer" How does that look to you, written out like that? Can I use that in my signature line?

:shk: What a disappointment...

I guess you could look at it that way, but I won't sacrafice my freedoms for anything, especially politically correct ones.

And did I ever mention a loss of freedoms from anyone else?
Nope.

You're just reiterating what you said the first time: you won't sacrifice your freedoms for anything (which by the way, no one's asking you to, so I don't know what's up with that) but you don't care about other people's freedoms (which by the way, puts yours in jeopardy)