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Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

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posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

In the words of Spock, "Live long and prosper."

beez


I am a big fan of Spock.

I apologize for misunderstanding your sandwich analogy.

www.youtube.com...


Star Trekkin' across the universe, On the Starship Enterprise under Captain Kirk. Star Trekkin' across the universe, Only going forward 'cause we can't find reverse.

Lt. Uhura, report. There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow; there's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim.

Analysis, Mr. Spock. It's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it; it's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.

quantumnow.com...




posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by thebtheb
 


No, my confusions stems from the fact that I am attempting to grasp a concept that I have never in my life faced, never in my life experienced, never in my life understood.

I never once said I was above anything, I am a normal, average human being who is dealing for the first time with something I have never even spoken of or given any thought to before, quite simply. because it never affected me or mine.

I have thought about many things in life, experienced many things in life, this is not one of them. I am dealing with the issue now, because it is an issue, that many in this country are considering, and being asked to vote on, and/or take a stance on.

While I do not think my religious views should ever be imposed upon anyone else, or affect anyone else in any way, I also know that religion says certain things for reasons, many of them quite logical ones. I am also looking for the logic concerning that, since sometimes the sheer logic and rational can blow a persons mind. (mine anyway)

When the topic of children came up, my mind was reeling with all the possible implications of that. You will have to excuse me, but this is a topic in and of itself, that I am sure many in our society are considering and probably their minds are reeling as well.....without considering all aspects, and gaining a perspective... no one will be able to think it through, or consider all that should be considered and discussed.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB

No, my confusions stems from the fact that I am attempting to grasp a concept that I have never in my life faced, never in my life experienced, never in my life understood.


20+ years ago I was homophobic due to ignorance. I was raised Christian. I was taught by man that homosexuality was an abomination - - etc etc.

Then I was FORTUNATE - - to get a job at a company where I was the minority being straight. I consider it one of the most rewarding and important times of my life.

Gays are just People. Period!



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Nice response - Oppression is the only abomination.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


We don't deny people rights based on whether or not those rights might negatively affect existing problems

People are people Ms. B

We people - all of us being people - are equal

That's not the same thing as being the same thing

Let those people who want to deny any people rights try to explain why certain people don't deserve those rights - no matter how they try it always amounts to the same thing:




So, in the end - if you really feel you can't understand this whole fight for equal rights, or that you don't like the idea - and that you simply can't approve - it's good that you can at least tolerate it

Tolerance is what this is all about because equal is equal - it really is just that simple


Hiya, Spiramirablis! Long time no argue with!


I spent most of the day (well, the part where I wasn't snoring and rattling windows) wrestling with the idea of gay marriage, and why on Earth I have any opposition to it. I don't dislike gays, I don't fight with the ones around me nor otherwise not get along with them. I'm not afraid of them, and I've no problem sitting around my living room, yakking and drinking beer with them, so why on Earth am I opposed to their marriage? Just because I don't want to get licensed is no reason they shoudn't, and in fact I've never been opposed to their getting a licensed marriage - I've said that over and over.

Your post finally clarified that for me, so thank you.

It's because it violates my basic philosophy of politics. Not society, not sexuality, not who is or is not "good people", but politics. The problem for me, really, is a demand for "rights" in the form of a government-issued certificate. Since no government dispensed privilege is a "right", I nor any one else has a "right" to a government-issued marriage. That's a privilege. What the government gives, the government can also take away, and therefore it is not a "right". Governments do not give rights at all, ever, in any place or time. They only issue revokable privileges. Since I don't have a right to a government sanctioned marriage, no one else gets one, either. Indeed they cannot, because government issued rights are non existent. They do not "be", and never have been.

They do, and always have had, the same rights as I do. That right involves, in the case of interpersonal relationships, snagging someone special, and setting up house. Government approval is not necessary, or even desirable in my case. Their case may be different - it may BE desirable to involve the government in their personal lives to them. If that's the case, more power to them. Go for it, Just don't claim it is a "right", because it's not. It's not a "right" for anyone, myself included.

Call it a "marriage", call it "croquet", call it "a cricket match". I don't care what they call it, but differentiate between an issued relationship and one engaged in by right. From here on out, I'm going to call any arrangements I get involved in that would formerly have been called "marriages" by another name so as not to confuse folks as to where the authority for the relationship comes from. I'm leaning towards calling mine "knitting", because I never ask government permission to knit anything - the authority to do that comes entirely from me.

From my rights.

Not from a government issued privilege.

So go ahead, folks. Knock yourselves out. "Marry" away, Wallpaper your houses with "marriage certificates". I really don't care, just don't be clouding issues by referring to it as a "right". You are not fighting for equal rights, you are fighting for equal privileges, and that's a concept I can get behind.

You already have equal rights.




edit on 2012/7/28 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

edit on 2012/7/28 by nenothtu because: fix quote tags



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Sorry, you dislike gays - pretty obvious



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by beersagain
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Sorry, you dislike gays - pretty obvious


I gave up responding to neno.

Because I can't make sense out of any of his posts.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by thebtheb

Very true. If we had the attitude of "it's not going to be easy" about so many things in the past, I'd hate to see what we'd look like right now.


Nothing worth having is ever easy. It's the struggle, the fight to get it, that imparts value to it. If it were easy, we wouldn't value it as highly.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Lol beer part 2 didn't last too long......



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by beersagain
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Sorry, you dislike gays - pretty obvious


I gave up responding to neno.

Because I can't make sense out of any of his posts.


I don't even read his posts anymore.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Leonardo DaVinci was not a homosexual, some people just believed that because there was an anonymous charge of sodomy against him. which was later dropped because there was no proof. There was no proof of any romantic interests at all.



There's lots of evidence that he was. Can you prove he wasn't? What woman did he marry? Who were his children?


You seem to be a little fuzzy on "gayness" - the WOMEN a fella marries aren't what demonstrate him to be gay... The lack of marrying anyone at all aren't what demonstrate him to be gay... think about it a little while, and the basic concept behind "SAME SEX relationship" will eventually hit you...



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Tramadolnights
 


You can give your opinion without unnecessary attacks and blatant bigotry. This thread is about gay marriage, the OP did not ask you to comment on whether you think being gay itself is right or wrong.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Hopefully we wont see a beer part three!



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Leonardo DaVinci was not a homosexual, some people just believed that because there was an anonymous charge of sodomy against him. which was later dropped because there was no proof. There was no proof of any romantic interests at all.



There's lots of evidence that he was. Can you prove he wasn't? What woman did he marry? Who were his children?


You seem to be a little fuzzy on "gayness" - the WOMEN a fella marries aren't what demonstrate him to be gay... The lack of marrying anyone at all aren't what demonstrate him to be gay... think about it a little while, and the basic concept behind "SAME SEX relationship" will eventually hit you...



You need to do a little research. There's loads of evidence he had sexual relationships with men. Either way, he didn't contribute to the gene pool, but that doesn't matter, because he contributed so much more than "some people" I know.

I wasn't addressing you in that post, and I'd appreciate if you never addressed me again, and I will return the favor. Thank you.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by beezzer
 


Allowing them to get married will not prevent you from getting married or owning a firearm or....

Really guy, allowing them to be married will not step on anybody's rights. People are just having a knee jerk reaction to change, is all that junk really is.

Remember these Ferengi Rules of Acquisition:

76. Every once in a while, declare peace....it confuses the hell out of your enemies.
190. Hear all, trust nothing.


Again, I don't really care. I've tried to bring up some issues along the way. Freedom is important. I'm just leery of legislation, any type, is all.


And that's one of the sticking points in this and a great many other conversations. People seem to be confusing legislation with rights and freedom, and seem unable to recognize that the only reason legislation is EVER enacted is to restrict an already pre-existent freedom.

Asking the government to legislate a "freedom" is asking it to REGULATE that freedom (that is, after all, what legislation IS - regulation), which makes it no longer a freedom at all!



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Marriage under the Judeo-Christian God of the old and new testament is a union between and man and woman, Therefore you can put homosexuals in a church and get them married by a priest but they still will never be married. God will not honor it so even if the State and the people do, it really doesn't matter because it's not really a marriage.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by thebtheb

Actually 51% of North America is FOR gays, 42% against, not sure about the other 7%.
Anyway, I never said I was SO right. I said that after reading enough of your words, I understand you better ,thus it's easier to write you off and pay no attention to you, which starts... NOW!


Just a friendly word of advice, which you can either take or leave, but I've found throughout life that it's usually a bad idea to ignore your opposition. It gives them free reign to do as they will, and you never know when they're coming until they've already got a grip on you.

Better to keep a close eye on them and what they are up to and saying, in my experience. Your mileage may vary.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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I really could care less if homosexuals get married.....get married, get tax breaks from said marriage, adopt kids - whatever. The only thing that bugs me about the homosexual agenda is their idea of making it illegal to think negatively about homosexuality. To me, you should have every right to say what you think and what you feel, regardless how stupid those thoughts are.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by rebellender
 



That two timing bitch! The dolphin blinked at me suggestively as well. She's got some splaining to do.......


HEY! Ya'll leave my dolphin be!

You know how them dolphins are, with all their dolphinine wiles!



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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"idea of making it illegal to think negatively about homosexuality"
Where are you getting this ? Drop me an article or smth.



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