Interesting online polls for debate no. 2

Currently:
FoxNews Online Polls puts Kerry at 62% believing he won and 37% believing Bush won.
CNN.com Online Polls put Kerry at 80% thinking he won the debate, and only 18% thinking Bush won.
MSNBC poll puts Kerry at 70% and Bush at 30%

Good news for us Democrats! If people voting on FoxNews.com believe Kerry won then some conversion from ignorance is being created. Hip Hip Horray!

These polls are changing by the minute so go look for updated polls.

I'm watching the video link on Foxnews.com. Damn, Kerry is strong. He is an excellent speaker. I'd have to agree with those polls. From what I'm seeing, Kerry is even stronger than he was during the 1st debate.

Still watching.

It's obvious Kerry has 20 years experience of doing this. You're just not gonna see him implode the same way Bush did at the first debate. Because of that, and because he uses facts and refutes attacks made on him, it's gonna be tough to actually "beat" John Kerry in a debate.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
It's obvious Kerry has 20 years experience of doing this. You're just not gonna see him implode the same way Bush did at the first debate. Because of that, and because he uses facts and refutes attacks made on him, it's gonna be tough to actually "beat" John Kerry in a debate.

Yes, Kerry is an excellent debator and beat bush in miami, but didn't defeat bush today.

I don't know how you can say he uses facts and refutes attacks made on him, though. All i hear from kerry is I HAVE A PLAN. And then he moves on to something else. It sure would be great to hear his almighty plan for everything. Hell, i can SAY i know how to cure cancer. But if i don't have anything to back up my claim, how do you expect anyone to believe me?

If Kerry gets elected i'll be anxious to see how many of these empty promises he keeps. I'm doubting he'll keep any.

Originally posted by KwintzAll i hear from kerry is I HAVE A PLAN. And then he moves on to something else. It sure would be great to hear his almighty plan for everything.

In Senator Kerrys defense, it's really hard to lay out your plan in 90 seconds. Hell, it's tough to even outline it in 90 seconds. If you're interested in his plan, clicky!

Yes, Kerry is an excellent debator and beat bush in miami, but didn't defeat bush today.

What debate were you watching?

I'll concede he didn't completely TROUNCE Bush like last time, but I think he made his points much clearer...

As for the Plan, see Anathema's post.... His plan is no mystery, but again, can't even go there in 90 seconds.... One thing all can likely agree on, Bush's plan ISN'T working right now....

BUSH all night - "Kerry never votes in the Senate, and is a liberal" (while huffing and puffing)
KERRY all night - Intelligent remarks on each point...

BTW I do believe Bush was also guilty of the "I have a plan" problem. Didn't he also refuse to answer a question?

Bush did an excellent job of Making Kerry look like a "bad salesman"

Kerry lost the debate, when he sidestepped the Tax question.
The was the moment, when Kerry changed from an Orator to Carnival barker, offering up a little snake oil.

Do NOT believe online polls, they are being hijacked. I watched a local poll
recieve 5 votes per second to the Kerry side..
It ended up being 4000 to 25, a ridiculous lopsided victory for Kerry.

This type of BS is going on all over the country..

Just seen the 'debate'.

Another Kerry clear win and yet another instance of 'Bush, the man who finds talking out loud a problem'.

(and besides his general incoherence when he was talking, what the hell was going on with his face when he wasn't? Was that a very obvious and transparent false look, struggling to appear calm or what? Weird-o.)

I don't understand why so many people side with kerry... it's amazing. I mean he is lying on national television. He has changed his position so many times on IRAQ. I think that kerry using the report that was released recently about WMDs as AMMO is ridiculous. First of All, BUSH asked for that report and he reported it 3 weeks before the election. In some eyes, he's actually hurting himself... or atleast we have to pretend that.

Kerry won hands down. He sounded like a president and made Bush look like the rich kid who skipped nam and got handouts from the saudi's all his life coz of his daddy and grandaddy.

It also made it apparently obvious Bush isn't doing what a president does, run the country. It became even more obvious Cheney and the neo-cons are running the show and bush is nothing but a puppet.

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Do NOT believe online polls, they are being hijacked. I watched a local poll
recieve 5 votes per second to the Kerry side..
It ended up being 4000 to 25, a ridiculous lopsided victory for Kerry.

.

Yep. I just saw a bunch of results that had Kerry winning 93%, 95%,
etc. etc. That is total BS and impossible.

The reason the polls were so skewed are two fold ...
#1 - obviously someone is tampering with them at the other end
and
#2 - It's Friday night and the Republicans are out enjoying life
while the dems at DemocraticUnderground.com don't have a life
and are flooding the polls.

Originally posted by Gazrok
BUSH all night - "Kerry never votes in the Senate, and is a liberal" (while huffing and puffing)

He's right about Kerry never showing up to vote in the Senate -
except when there was an opportunity to raise taxes or vote down
our military.

But man ... that huffing and puffing of 'W's really drives me nuts.

www.democraticunderground.com...

That's the reason, bunch of dems with nothing better to do on a Friday night.

146. I cleaned my cookies, but it still just gives me the results

That's the sort of thing you will find if you follow the link posted to democratic underground! They are lying cheaters! Unbeliveable!

I'm worried for the election ... if they are willing to stay up late to do this kind of garbage, what is their plan for election day?

Jemison

[edit on 9-10-2004 by Jemison]

The conservatives seem so paranoid that the liberals will do anything at all odds to skew the media and make everyone think that everything in this world is anti-conservative. I mean come on Bush last night was refering to internet rumors? So they have the internet on computers now?

I dont see how anyone can not realize that Kerry won the debate. Bush had the fact that he's a flip flopper, hes the most liberal senator around, he's lying. Bush was bringing back positions from 1993, i didn't know people were allowed to change their minds in 11 years?

Sure Kerry flip flops, but so does bush, so I don't think his focus of the republican campaign should be to say "Oh he flip flops", because the truth is that he's no better.

Bush was right about Kerrys liberal record. This article compares Kerry and Edwards and their Senate record.

www.govexec.com...

To be sure, Kerry's ranking as the No. 1 Senate liberal in 2003 -- and his earning of similar honors three times during his first term, from 1985 to 1990 -- will probably have opposition researchers licking their chops. As shown in the accompanying chart, Kerry had a perfect liberal rating on social issues during 10 of the 18 years in which he received a score, meaning that he did not side with conservatives on a single vote in those years. That included his 1996 vote, with 13 other Senate Democrats, against the Defense of Marriage Act, which prohibited federal recognition of states' same-sex marriage laws. Along the campaign trail, Republicans likely will remind voters of Kerry's stance on that issue.

Kerry did NOT win the debate. All he said was "I have a plan" and never went into detail. He avoided answering questions on abortion and I didn't learn anything more about him last night than what I learned in the previous debate.

Jemison

I thought Kerry was strong, but not quite as strong as he was last week. One thing I paid particular attention to was whether or not the candidates answered the questions posed to them by the voters.

Kerry made us wait, but he attempted to answer every question he was asked. Some answers were good, others not so good.

I think Bush missed one though. The woman who asked him to give three examples of mistakes he had made in his first term and what he did to fix them, didn't receive a complete answer. GW assumed her question was aimed specifically at the war in Iraq and refused to admit any mistakes on his part. I could be wrong, but I would think every president, with all the decisions made, would make at least three mistakes. If GW is unable to admit to any mistakes whatsoever, how am I to trust him to take accountability for the decisions he makes?

I'm trying to maintain an open mind about this election, but I'm convinced our current president is not a strong leader. I thought he was strong right after 9/11 standing on the recked automobile with one arm around a firefighter and the other holding a bullhorn. It's been going steadily downhill since then.

[edit on 9-10-2004 by Belgarath]

Originally posted by Kwintz
Yes, Kerry is an excellent debator and beat bush in miami, but didn't defeat bush today.

I don't know how you can say he uses facts and refutes attacks made on him, though. All i hear from kerry is I HAVE A PLAN. And then he moves on to something else. It sure would be great to hear his almighty plan for everything. Hell, i can SAY i know how to cure cancer. But if i don't have anything to back up my claim, how do you expect anyone to believe me?

(1) If you actually analyze the debates with an impartial view, you're likely to say Kerry won. But again, this goes back to what I said before. Unless one candidate completely falls on their face like Bush did the first debate, it's easy enough for either side to spin it into a victory for them.

As for Kerry, I'll keep copying and pasting this for anyone who says he didn't say specifics:

Fully fund the "No Child Left Behind" Act ... allow NATO to help (or completely take over) the training of Iraqis, something the group brought up as a possibility in a meeting a couple weeks ago, but was ignored by Bush ... implement a process to reduce Russia's loose material in four years rather than the 13 years it would take under Bush's plan ... work on a massive global counterproliferation effort which would include scrapping our own plans for bunker-busting nuclear bombs in an effort to hold ourselves to the same standards we ask of other countries ... increase active duty military spots by 40,000 so that we don't need to use a backdoor draft of National Guard reservists or a reinstated draft to fill our military needs ... remove catastrophic cases out of the healthcare system and pay for them via a federal fund so that they don't artifically impact healthcare premiums, which will allow more affordable personal plans, as well as allow small businesses to offer healthcare packages, which will increase the number of Americans covered ... raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids ... have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college ... implement tax cuts for people making under $200,000, while repealing tax cuts back to the Clinton level for people making above that ... currently sponsoring a bill along with McCain that will eliminate tax loopholes for businesses that outsource jobs overseas ... create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America ... reevaluate the Patriot Act so that it cannot be used in a way to deprive American citizens of their most basic rights ... put the 100-200k frozen embryos already stored away in fertility clinics to use by using them for stem cell research

**********************************************************

Sounds like some concrete plans for me. This is all stuff he mentioned in the debate last night. The only issue that he dodged and said "I have a plan" without really mentioning anything about said plan is about tort reform, when he said go to his website. Everything else he either attacked the president on what he has been doing, or he's explained how he plans to do things differently, giving definite answers, not just simply, "I have a plan."

Like I said before, say he can't accomplish these things, but that's just your opinion, it's not fact. Speaking of fact, it's a fact that Kerry did lay out some definitive plans as to what he wants to do if he becomes president, so you, and everyone else, please get off that schtick. I just posted plenty of evidence to the contrary.