Satan and Lucifer and Isis (Ashtarah) are not the same. The energies are different!

The word Satan may mean "Adversary" in Hebrew, but that is not where the word originated from. It originated from The Ancient Egyptian God who was called "Set" (Seth). Set was the God of The Underworld - The oppose of The Light (Ra), His Son Horus, and The Spirit Ka - The Holy Trinity.

Set was associated with The Planet Saturn. In fact, when The Ancient Persians adapted Set, they named him "Satan" and this is what they called The Planet, and The God of The Underworld.

Venus is a planet that has been associated with "Love" and "War". All things have The Light (masculine) and The Dark (feminine) side.

The Light (masculine - ordered) side of Venus is Lucifer The Light Bringer [of wisdom]. The Dark (feminine - chaotic) side of Venus is Isis or Ashtar - The Goddess of War.

So Lucifer and Isis (Ashtar) as the Masculine and Female energy of Venus being manifested as an Energy Being.


Just like people can sometimes see "Mother Earth (Gaia)" which is The Female manifested Energy Being of Planet Earth.

reply to post by arpgme
I won't argue the claim as I've never looked into it, but might you be able to reference some source material on this? I've never heard of satan being a persian term, or originating from the egyptian gods.

I don't doubt the possibility since I've already seen and support some of the linguistic differences with the hebrew names and older sumerian, but it's always good to provide supporting info instead of just stating claims as fact.

Little help here, instead of just making everyone who bothers to read your thread dig to confirm?

reply to post by Praetorius


I don't have concrete evidence, the evidence is circumstantial I must admit. Remember, all of these words and religions came from Ancient Egyptians and expanded across the middle east, and it is a fact that Venus is always referred to as "The Morning Star" across many cultures. It is the brightest star you can see in the sky in the morning...

reply to post by arpgme


I'm pretty sure Sutekh (Set) was not the god of the underworld. That was Asar's (Osiris) role, accompanied by Inpu (Anubis).

Apep (Apophis) was a spirit of evil, who opposed the light.

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9


Osiris was for the after-life. He is associated with Orion and the Egyptians even made pyramids that align with the stars of Orion. They believed it to be the after-life (heaven). Some Christian Paintings show Jesus coming down from The Orion Nebula showing that some Christians believed Orion Nebula to be the After-Life too.

In The Bible it says seek he who has made the Pleiades and Orion. That would be Orion Nebula.

It is not conclusive but there is indeed a large trend towards the connection of root words through Satan / Saturn / Set(h).

We need a few more decisive clues to prove it was directly related linguistically.
But I am a fan of this theory and would like to see if it can be finally proven.

But there is one major issue that I feel you are missing and I want to share it with you, although it's extremely complex and counter-intuitive, maybe I can get the idea across in a fairly simple way.

Lucifer originally was not a deity, but rather a description of the deities' quality.
Luci - Light , Ferrous - Bearing.

However Set / Saturn and Isis were indeed actual full blown deities.

The major aspect of all of this is that we incorrectly assume that these deities were separate and isolated. However, historical documents appear to argue a completely opposite story, that each deity was flexible and could easily merge into other areas.

My favorite example is Mithra and the quote by Herodotus the accredited historian of antiquity.
Here is a snippet, but I will copy the entire old post here for full context.

It claims that Herodotus the acclaimed Greek historian, wrote in the 5th century BC of the 'Persians', "worship the sun, moon, and earth, fire, water, and winds", as Mithra, and then it equates this with "Aphrodite" (very important clue), and the Arabian Alilat.

Check next post for full context of my original post from months ago.

Point is, you cannot get bogged down into the concept that these deities are isolated or specific. They are mutable, flexible, and can be applied to just about anything. An interesting facet of this is the male vs female aspects, and it is constantly shown through "Hermaphroditic" depictions. (Hermes + Aphrodite)

Just check out my full post next for the context.

Ok check out this book: "Suns of God".

It says that Mithraism, along pages 125-126, revered Mithra/Mithres/Mithras as the "Sun God" in ancient Persia.

It talks about how in the 8th century, the Assyrians under Shalmaneser V took over Samaria and deported the tribes.

The name Shalmaneser is used for him in the Bible, which attributes to him and his father the deportation of the "Ten Lost Tribes" of Israel. In the 17th and 18th chapters of 2 Kings he is described as the conqueror of Samaria and as sending its inhabitants into exile

"Samaria" = West Bank = Ancient capitol of Kingdom of Israel in antiquity Samaria (ancient city wiki).

It states that Mithra was also the sun god of Cyrus the Great the founder of the Achaemenid Empire, "The First Persian Empire". That's roughly two centuries after the Assyrians conquered Samaria and the Israelites were deported, (8th to 6th centuries BC). Take notice of the maps, photos, etc, on the wiki.

Alright back to the source book I linked, it then states that Mithra was considered the Messiah or Christos by Jews during the historical "Captivity" from 586-538 BC.

Then it continues, that Mithraism was the royal cult under Artaxerxes I of the Achaemenid Persians, and this continued after Alexander the Great overthrew the Persians and this region then became the Seleucid Empire.

It states that "reliefs of the tomb of the King Antiochus IV Epiphanes" demonstrate Mithraic influence.

Please continue onward this gets really good.
It claims that Herodotus the acclaimed Greek historian, wrote in the 5th century BC of the 'Persians', "worship the sun, moon, and earth, fire, water, and winds", as Mithra, and then it equates this with "Aphrodite" (very important clue), and the Arabian Alilat.

Then it says that Mithra was considered bi-gender or hermaphrodite (hermes + aphrodite), "Mithra the Persian deity was both God and Goddess".

It then goes on to talk about how monuments can be found from India to Scotland, and that it is quote "the most nearly universal religion in the Western world".

This is very interesting because remember the influence that "Baphomet" had on the medieval Christian Orders allegedly. Baphomet was essentially an equivalent of sorts to Mithra. Hermaphrodite, represents the multitude of aspects, positive and negative, astrological, etc.

The outright flavor of Mithraism, which was relatively rare due to the historical secrecy, supposedly even became the official religion again for a brief moment right after after Constantine established Christianity as the official religion.

Julian the Apostate , Roman Emperor 361-363 AD , attempted to bring Mithra back. (It was very short lived), and this may have even been designed as a false ploy, in my opinion, by the Mithraic cult itself to fool the people into thinking "Nicaean doctrine of official Roman Christianity" was actually separate from the "Mithraic polytheism". This could have been effective as a means to create false differences between the two systems, and made 'official' Roman Christianity even more appealing to the unwitting masses. That's just a hunch.

Read this section on Julian the Apostate
He made all religions legal, and it claims this was a ploy to reinstate outright traditional pagan polytheism.

But get this: Julian the Apostate wanted to rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
According to Ammianus Marcellinus:

Julian thought to rebuild at an extravagant expense the proud Temple once at Jerusalem, and committed this task to Alypius of Antioch. Alypius set vigorously to work, and was seconded by the governor of the province; when fearful balls of fire, breaking out near the foundations, continued their attacks, till the workmen, after repeated scorchings, could approach no more: and he gave up the attempt

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

 

Osiris was for the after-life. He is associated with Orion and the Egyptians even made pyramids that align with the stars of Orion. They believed it to be the after-life (heaven). Some Christian Paintings show Jesus coming down from The Orion Nebula showing that some Christians believed Orion Nebula to be the After-Life too.

In The Bible it says seek he who has made the Pleiades and Orion. That would be Orion Nebula.

Yes, I know all about the Orion Theory. The Ancient Egyptians had to progress through the underworld to GET to the afterlife. The primary figure of the underworld was Osiris who resided in the Hall of the Two Truths.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Lucifer originally was not a deity, but rather a description of the deities' quality.
Luci - Light , Ferrous - Bearing.

Actually Lucifer is a full blown entity. There is just not much information on Lucifer because it is a Latin translation of the Greek God Phosphorus who was the Son of the gods Astraeus and Eos or Cephalus and Eos/Atlas.

I have posted that info several times because it is indeed powerful and can aid in explaining exactly HOW these pantheons were set up, and how people felt/thought about their neighbors pantheons.

They "Equated" their pantheon with their neighbors in most cases.

Mithra was depicted as a male, but is equated with Aphrodite?
Why?

If Mithra is revered as the Sun God, why isn't he equated with Sol Invictus instead?
(He is equated with Sol by many but that's beside the point for this particular excerpt).

Also I want to point out that the Greek Goddess of War was Athena (in Rome it was Minerva). The Goddess of Victory in War was Nike (in Rome it was Victoria). (However in Egypt Nike was a adjective given to the Pharoah "Nekht" I believe. It meant victory or victorious apparently.

In Egypt the Goddess of War was Neith
Neith also means "Weaver" , and Athena was the patron of weavers as well.

Also within the very long span of time that Egypt existed, the pantheon changed drastically over time, and was different in each city to some extent.

Other Egyptian Goddesses associated with War were:
Anuket / Ankt

Bast / Bastet
who was later overtaken by
Sekhmet

And also we have Menhit "she who massacres".
The Greek figure Eryo is equated with Menhit.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Point is, you cannot get bogged down into the concept that these deities are isolated or specific. They are mutable, flexible, and can be applied to just about anything. An interesting facet of this is the male vs female aspects, and it is constantly shown through "Hermaphroditic" depictions. (Hermes + Aphrodite)

This ^^^ was well-said, whether you intended it the way I took it or not.

There seems to be so much bleed-over between the different societies and cultures, yet each using the same or similar deities (even if their differences of interpretation set their personal views at odds), that it astounds me. How hard is it for these people to have realized they may have been worshiping or recognizing the same entities under different names, and that all the old stories were true and just misinterpreted?

The god of the hebrews and the gods of ancient sumeria being a good example - no real need to put them at odds, when EA and YHWH might have been the same guy, etc., just with some of the evidence having been read differently or falsified on one side or the other. Extending this much further, and your point is excellent. There may not have been so many different gods, but rather a smaller number of gods read differently by different groups.

Take care, MF.

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Lucifer originally was not a deity, but rather a description of the deities' quality.
Luci - Light , Ferrous - Bearing.

Actually Lucifer is a full blown entity. There is just not much information on Lucifer because it is a Latin translation of the Greek God Phosphorus who was the Son of the gods Astraeus and Eos or Cephalus and Eos/Atlas.

I'll try to add some clarity.

Most deities had additional words added to their name. Surnames or what have you.

For example "Diana Lucifera", which refers to Diana the Moon Goddess and imposes a specific quality upon them "the light carrier/bringer".

The Surname Lucifera derives from Eosphoros / Hesperus, this is fairly widely accepted according to my research.

Lucifera is an aspect of the deity, rather than the deity itself.
Diana was also called "Diana Nemorensis, which means "Diana of the forest". This was a "triple personification", as per this article on Wiki Triple Deities

Yes "Lucifer" became a full blown deity eventually, but originally it didn't start out that way, at least according to the information I have read so far.

Oh and strangely enough, Virgil referred to Diana as "Trivia".
There's some trivia for ya.

reply to post by Praetorius


Thanks for the post.

Yes my main point there was to reveal that all of these Gods / Goddesses were actually one in the same. In a sense it's "e pluribus unum" or "Out of one, many".

Each figure bleeds into the next one, and they are all connectable through a spider web.

And the post I put above about Mithra was intentional to reveal this concept of unity among the pantheon.

Here is one more big idea for you to ponder:
What if people back then didn't knowingly worship these statues?
What if it's just like today, that people are unknowingly worshiping at statues like Mary or Jesus in Church?

For example today, you will see people bowed down at Jesus's statue, and you will exclaim "But this is Idol Worship isn't it?" Their reply? "I'm not worshiping the statue, I am worshiping the holy spirit in heaven!".

What if it was exactly like that back then? What if 90% of the population did it because that's all they were taught to do, and actually didn't knowingly worship the statue itself? What if they thought they were paying homage to the "holy spirit in heaven"?

Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by arpgme

 

I'm pretty sure Sutekh (Set) was not the god of the underworld. That was Asar's (Osiris) role, accompanied by Inpu (Anubis).

Apep (Apophis) was a spirit of evil, who opposed the light.

edit on 7/20/2012 by IEtherianSoul9 because: (no reason given)

Egypt lasted for a very very long time.
The religion changed often, and differed from location to location.

Check this wiki out on Set

Set ( /sɛt/) or Seth (/sɛθ/; also spelled Setesh, Sutekh, Setekh, or Suty) is a god of the desert, storms, and foreigners in ancient Egyptian religion. In later myths he is also the god of darkness, and chaos. In Ancient Greek, the god's name is given as Sēth (Σήθ).

So not the underworld per se, but instead darkness and chaos overall.
Set

Originally posted by Praetorius

The god of the hebrews and the gods of ancient sumeria being a good example - no real need to put them at odds, when EA and YHWH might have been the same guy, etc.

That is quite possible in fact.

Ea, I believe, was pronounced "Yah" originally.
There are some good reasons to suspect this.

reply to post by muzzleflash



Phosphorus (Lucifer - The Light Bearer) was the actual name of a being from the Greek Gods. Sure, the name can be used as a "description" as well, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the name of this being, whether it is a name of description or not.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
That is quite possible in fact.

Ea, I believe, was pronounced "Yah" originally.
There are some good reasons to suspect this.

I believe this is also a connection:

The Sun - Ea - Yah - Jah (as in Jahovah) - Rah - Lah

It would make sense since the Abrahamic religions all have similarities to The Ancient Egyptian religion.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Praetorius

The god of the hebrews and the gods of ancient sumeria being a good example - no real need to put them at odds, when EA and YHWH might have been the same guy, etc.

That is quite possible in fact.

Ea, I believe, was pronounced "Yah" originally.
There are some good reasons to suspect this.

Yes and no - based on some evidence from Josephus, inadvertant or no - it seems like YHVH may actually have been pronounced ee-ah-oo-ay...and that ee-ah is what strikes me in light of EA. Study here on why Yahweh/ee-ah-oo-ay seems to be the correct pronunciation, and how is so phonetically similar to the sumerian deity.

Take care, and enjoy the weird wonder that's out there. Learning every day...yet still a true believer.

reply to post by arpgme


Thanks for bringing up the topic though. It's one of my favorite subjects because it constantly blows my mind as I delve deeper into it. Pretty addictive to find out new stuff all the time (except it's really old stuff!).

Sure beats the dramatic and politicized crap we argue about around here most of the time.

Oh and so my post doesn't go to waste, I'll toss in some more links for fun.

El
Ahura Mazda
Uranus aka Caelus
Amun / Amen aka Zeus Amun

Now check this out:

IN Greece, he was "Zeus Pater" *(Father Zeus)
In Rome, he became "Ju-piter". (Father Jove)
In Indian, he is named "Dyaus Pitar which means "Sky Father".

The Indian connection should really open the flood gates.

Dyauṣ Pitṛ has been depicted during the day-time as a red bull who bellows thunder (in juxtaposition to the Prithvi Mata, represented as a cow), or as the night heavens in form of a black horse adorned with pearls, symbolizing the stars. The dark Dyaus also holds a thunder-stone. In art, Dyaus appears in both the above two different forms.

A red bull - thunder god?

Check this out.

Europa
This is where the word "Europe" came from.

Zeus (the thunder god) became a bull and kidnapped Europa and raped her.

Now how the hell are the names so similar ? Zeus Pater, Ju pitar, and Dyaus Pitar?
And they are depicted as bulls in certain reliefs/context?

This is not a coincidence.

However I will note that it was far more typical in Greece/Rome to depict the sky father as a White colored bull, rather than red. I don't know why yet but I'm sure if I dig I'll figure it out. I hope.

And for a strange reason, probably due to the particular lineage the Germanic people came from, Thor who is also the thunder god, and associated with oak trees like Jupiter / Zeus, is not very commonly associated with bulls.
I can't find any Thor - bull depictions yet, but I'll keep looking around to see what I come up with.

Oh yeah, and that's almost certainly why "The Devil", "Satan", or "Lucifer" in modern Christianized terminology refers to a being depicted with "Horns", and a "Pitchfork (Trident)".

Who had horns? The bull.
Who had a trident? Poseidon/ Neptune?

These motifs actually go all the way back to Sumeria.

Sacred Bull

The worship of the Sacred Bull throughout the ancient world is most familiar to the Western world in the biblical episode of the idol of the Golden Calf. The Golden Calf after being made by the Hebrew people in the wilderness of Sinai, were rejected and destroyed by Moses and his tribe after his time upon the mountain peak (Book of Exodus). Marduk is the "bull of Utu". Shiva's steed is Nandi, the Bull. The sacred bull survives in the constellation Taurus. The bull, whether lunar as in Mesopotamia or solar as in India, is the subject of various other cultural and religious incarnations, as well as modern mentions in new age cultures.

Golden Calf (Biblical)

So it is extremely clear why the "Horns" are part of the "Devil" depictions. It references Idolatry directly and explicitly through the Hebrew text.

Ba'al Hammon
What does "Ba'al" mean?

"Baʿal" can refer to any god and even to human officials. In some texts it is used for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name, Hadad, Ba‛al was commonly used. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Baʿal" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called baʿal and regarded in the Hebrew Bible in that context as a "false god".

Hadad is the sky father/thunder god btw. This is the most common usage for "Ba'al" in context of polytheism.

Now check this out, in Rome, they actually merged Ba'al and Jupiter into "Jupiter Dolichenus

The cult was a mystery religion where the theology, temples and rituals were open only to the initiates. Very little is known about the cult as it did not last long enough to appear in the Christian literature that provided so many useful clues on other secret cults such as Mithraism.

This stuff gets really deep and unbelievably complex. It takes a lot of time and energy to go through all of it.

Oh and the Trident, almost forgot.
Go scroll down to "use in myth" and check out all of the incredible variations of how this appeared worldwide.

The horns and the trident in the "devil" depiction are referencing polytheism and idolatry specifically. It makes perfect sense how it came to be the way it is today.