i hope this isnt off topic but its one hell of a coincidence,i was up late last night and i happened to catch part of a documentary on one of the discovery or history channels,
i was surprised to hear the narrator say a man called rosenberg was one of the key architects of nazi racial theory.
surely rosenberg is a jewish name?
this brought to mind a quote attributed to reynard heydrich where he calls himself a zionist wanting to expedite the migration of european jews to palestine.
i wish i had the inteligence and resources to research this, on the other hand id probably end up in jail.

Originally posted by ZakOlongapo
jews(zionists) -> jews holocaust(lie) -> palestine -> palestinian holocaust(real) * -> ISRAEL
jews(zionists) -> media -> politics -> entertainment -> banks -> israel
jews(zionists) -> lies -> wars -> agenda -> usa -> israel
jews(zionists) -> israel(Zion) -> PROBLEM!

that's how i feel it...

Then you are very uninformed and wrong!

Not all Jews are Zionist - fact.
Not all Zionist are Jews - fact
Not all Banks are run by Jews - fact
Not all media outlets are run by Jews- fact (ever heard of an Australian named Murdoch - hardly Jewish)
Not all entertainment companies are run by Jews - fact (however many are, but seriously I don't see much wrong with that?)
Not all lies are Jewish - fact

Have you ever heard of Bilderberg? Council of Foreign Relations? FreeMasons? Evangerlists? Vatican? Mormons? Royalty? None of them are Jewish, all have power, high finance and conspiracies!

Can a murder occur to someone who doesn't exist ? could you jail someone for claiming that someone killed someone who had no name or identity ? would it be fair to just ask for a name ?






Show me a list of people 6 million people of Jewish decent who died in German Prison camps, the Germans were meticulous in everything they did. Do that and I will shut up for ever.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Can a murder occur to someone who doesn't exist ? could you jail someone for claiming that someone killed someone who had no name or identity ? would it be fair to just ask for a name ?






Show me a list of people 6 million people of Jewish decent who died in German Prison camps, the Germans were meticulous in everything they did. Do that and I will shut up for ever.

If you go to Yad Vashem (The Holocaust Museum in Israel) you will find exhaustive records and documents of all the Jewish, Romany, Gay, Mentally/Physically Handicapped and other victims of the Nazi Camps. The records are there and they are facts.

What people do not realise is that the Nazi's set out to wipe what they deemed 'inferior' people from the face of the Earth, especially (although not exclusively) Jews.

i dont have any problem beleiving 6million jews died during ww2 all told,but i struggle to understand how the majority of these deaths could have happend in the camps, the logistics of such an undertaking is mind blowing especially when germany was fighting a war on two fronts for its very survival.
there are many discrepancies regarding the accepted version of ww2 history my own personal favorite is the question of rudolph hess's long prison sentence and somewhat suspicious death.
i also think the question of wether or not hard core zionists were part of the nazi party(there were rumors heydrich was of jewish descent which aparently himler was aware of) and willing to sacrifice milions of ordinary jews as well as countless others in order to facilitate a return to palestine.
i think this is a valid question and it does not make me a nazi or a hlocaust denier.
To OP the answer is obviously not.

Originally posted by erictcartman
i dont have any problem beleiving 6million jews died during ww2 all told,but i struggle to understand how the majority of these deaths could have happend in the camps, the logistics of such an undertaking is mind blowing especially when germany was fighting a war on two fronts for its very survival.

If you look at it slightly differently, or from another angle rather, and divide the deaths into two seperate economic issues it does become slightly clearer.

Firstly, the concentration camps provided free labour, slaves in fact, which enabled rapid expansion of the new German Reich, and facilitated the civil engineering projects, which otherwise could not have been accomplished in such short shrift, if the entire workforce had had to be paid. Similarly, it aided in the rapid growth of the machinery needed to create the massive military force. Germany would not have been ready for war had it not had slave labour to lighten the expense of such massive, rapid growth.

Secondly, Aktion Reynard, the systematic and industrialised mass murder of the Reich Jews was in part necessitated by the 'war on two fronts'. By drawing the Germans into attacking Russia, the Allies effectively signed the death warrant of the Jews, and further, by ensuring that all transit routes were closed, by means of Naval Blockades, they prevented the Germans from evacuating those Jews, as planned, to first Palestine, and then, when that failed to be quick enough, to Madagascar. Germany, which was already beginning to run short of supplies and was struggling to meet the needs of it's ethnic German population, was unable to support the Ghettoised Jews, and therefore a decision had to be made to either to allow them to starve to death, or to expediate their death by other means.

However, it can also be considered that had the Germans not expended so much of their resources shunting the Jews backwards and forwards then they would not have wasted so many resources and they would not have been forced to make such a heinous decision.

Originally posted by erictcartman
there are many discrepancies regarding the accepted version of ww2 history my own personal favorite is the question of rudolph hess's long prison sentence and somewhat suspicious death.

I find this fascinating too. I think that it is particularly telling that Britain had always said that he would be released once the Soviets agreed to it, assuming that they never would, but then when Gorbachev said, 'okay', he suddenly died. Hmmm! The majority of the British SIS file on Hess has still not been released. Now really what could be such a threat to national security that over seventy years after his arrest, we still can't make that public?

Originally posted by erictcartman
i also think the question of wether or not hard core zionists were part of the nazi party(there were rumors heydrich was of jewish descent which aparently himler was aware of) and willing to sacrifice milions of ordinary jews as well as countless others in order to facilitate a return to palestine.

Heydrich's Jewish descent is somewhat irrelevent, he did not consider himself Jewish. He may have had a Jewish relative, but he did not feel any loyalty to the Jews, but neither did he relish their genocide. However, he did enter into an agreement with Israeli militia who set up a training facility in Berlin and with the help of the Gestapo, they were provided with approximately 300 new recruits each week, who were trained and then despatched, not always willingly, to Palestine. Heydrich made every effort to force the Jews to emigrate but it simply did not happen at the rate that was 'required' to happen. And then, Britain took action to prevent the immigrants from landing in Palestine, thus ending that option altogether. The option of Madagascar was then explored, with Eichmann and a number of his subordinates even getting their shots and undergoing 'tropical training'. But as mentioned above already, that route too was made impossible due to the British Naval Blockades.

Originally posted by erictcartman
excellent post,i know heydrich never considered himself a jew but there is a quote attributed to him where he calls himself a zionist.

I apologise I missed your response previously.

As I think I tried to explain, Heydrich was a Zionist, in the traditional sense, he believed that the Jews should have their own state, preferably, in the Palestinian Mandate. The motives behind those beliefs are less clear. Certainly he supported the Nazi racial ideal, but at the same time, according to his wife, he also resented being made responsible for dealing with the Jews when an emigration solution failed, and he clearly did his upmost to facilitate a solution that did not involve mass murder. He worked closely with the Jewish militia, and sent Eichmann to meet with those leaders in Palestine, but he was hampered in his efforts not only by British Naval and intelligence activity, but also with those within the Nazi Party who sought to bleed the Jews dry of all their resources and the insistence that those Jews pay their own way. With his close friend Admiral Canaris he instigated a plan to ship en masse the remaining Jews to Palestine, which failed due to the British blockade, and then to Madagascar, which also failed due to a leak that alerted Britain to this plan and instigated a further blockade. One could almost wonder why the Allies were so keen not to allow the Jews to escape from their eventual fate.

Originally posted by erictcartman
everything about hess,from the lone flight,to his death is very wrong,albert speer lived a life of luxury after the war as did field marshall paulus in communist east germany,as im sure you know.
i dont think any of the nazis who escaped the noose at nuremburg were treated as cruely as hess,werent they all let out of prison after fairly short sentences in the sprit of reconciliation?
i honestly think hess must have known something that would have been devastating to the allies even after all this time.
obviously this can only be speculation but i do wonder if churchill had put out feelers for peace with germany, only for him to doublecross hess when he was sure germany was going to invade soviet union.
even this doesent feel quite right though.
woulld you consider starting a new thread on hess and the riddle of the infamous flight,his subsequent imprisonment and very suspicious death?

I think that there are already a few threads covering that topic. Perhaps it might be better to ressurrect one of those rather than start another.

I personally feel that the punishment enacted against Hess was of the cruelest and most unusual kind. In my opinion it would have been kinder to have executed him. While he did draft the Nuremberg Laws, it was Speer who organised and instigated the slave labour programme, which under international law at that time, was a criminal offence. It is not an offense to impose laws upon your own citizens, such as the Nuremberg Laws, however heinous, were, it was, and is, illegal to transport people into your country for the purposes of slavery.

It is worth noting that the Hess file is still under the official secrets act and though due for review in 2013, it is doubtful in my mind that it will be made public, and if it is, that it will be heavily censored. Many of the records already, it has been claimed, were destroyed by fire, I expect a similar tragedy to befall the rest.

According to Martin Allen in the Hitler Hess Deception, Churchill did indeed lure Hitler and Hess into believing that peace was a possibility, and that the condition of that peace was that the Nazis were to declare war against the Soviets. Part of the ploy, according to Allen, and Charles Whiting, in Hitler's secret war, was to convince Hitler that Churchill was about to be overthrown by a vote of no confidence. Hitler wasn't so naive as to expect Churchill to make peace with him, but he was well aware that he and his policies had many supporters amongst the aristocracy and industrial community in the UK.

With Hess's capture, and assuming that Hitler was aware of the motives behind Hess's flight, Hitler was faced with a quandary, and clearly left in a void of advise. He vacillated over his the date of attack, but all the while he was building up his forces. Britain at the same time, was, by various means, telling Stalin quite explicitly that the Germans were amassing for attack, Stalin though, assured of the sanctity of the none-aggression pact, dismissed these alerts.

What is telling about the whole episode, is that right up until his death, Hess was never permitted to be alone with his visitors, even his own son. I think that it is a disgrace that a human being be treated in that way for so long, especially since most of crimes for which he was held accountable, occurred after he was in captivity.

I don't think there's anyone on the planet who would disagree that it was Hitler's revoking peoples rights to firearms that led to so many disabled German, Jews, and other people getting mass slaughtered.

Guess what they are proposing? The UN Small Arms ban they are passing thru and will soon force all countries to remove firearms from citizens...even Amerika after Obama gets re-elected....will soon be getting disarmed and this time a greater portion of Earth will be slaughtered.

Not only did the Holocaust happen but Holocaust #2 is happening right before the worlds eyes. We are on the eve of another Holocaust.....Africans...Indonesians...and those in the middle east are already getting slaughtered with hundreds of millions getting killed off in the last decade alone.