Chicken coop case: Teen allegedly wore a shock collar

Originally posted by DavidWillts
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


I wonder if these obviously god-fearing people think gays are evil and abuse their children???

you just kind of added that in there in an effort to sensationalize a story about child abuse.

Yeah - 'cos child abuse isn't sensational enough....

The mere fact that religious nutcases like this can even THINK that their behaviour is acceptable is an indictment on fundamentalists of all ilks - whether it be moslems in the mid-east, or x-ians in the USA, or anyone anywhere else.

Fundamentalist? Where do you come up with this? Because a neighbor mentioned some conversation in which the bible was mentioned?

Go read it again - a bible wasn't "mentioned" the bible was used as JUSTIFICATION.

People are sick of religious nutcases and their defenders saying they can do # just 'cos some 2000 year old story book says they can!

And let me guess the logic you use to defend the actions of atheists like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. does not apply to someone who mentioned the bible one time to their neighbor.

HA HA - I bags GODWIN'S LAW!

Typical religious apologist - trying to justify this evil religious behaviour because someone else is a nasty case too!

Well guess what Mr "It's not the bible's fault" - 2 wrongs don't make a right!!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul




No doubt "good christians" will condemn this - but that'll be little comfort to victims of christianity anywhere.

So in other threads I see people saying stuff like "where are the "good" Muslims to condemn the behavior of these freaks (the freaks being the Muslims that do very evil things or at least those calling themselves Muslims)?", yet here we have someone saying it will do little good if a "good" Christian condemns these actions by someone claiming they did this because of the Bible.


So I guess the saying is true you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. There is just no pleasing the people of ATS. No matter what a person of faith does they are lumped together with the nut cases that do evil things. I don't get it. What is a "good" Christian supposed to do exactly? I thought it was right to condemn the evils of those claiming to be doing things under the guise of Christianity that is completely unchristian.

So even though it will do little good I guess I will condemn the actions of these evil people.

Just so you know, just because people throughout history have claimed to do things in the name of God, faith, or holy books does not mean it is so. The hearts of mankind do evil things for their own passions and often use a scapegoat to take responsibility off of themselves.

Raist

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

No doubt "good christians" will condemn this - but that'll be little comfort to victims of christianity anywhere.

Guns don't kill people, ect ect.

These sort of things happen fairly often but hardly anyone actually looks into it.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Yeah - 'cos child abuse isn't sensational enough....

apparently not...

Go read it again - a bible wasn't "mentioned" the bible was used as JUSTIFICATION.

Im not seeing it, one quote taken from a neighbor from who knows what context. You read what you want to read, you are really no better than any religious zealot

reply to post by DavidWillts


The context is in the article - it is not particularly hard to find.

Originally posted by Raist

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

No doubt "good christians" will condemn this - but that'll be little comfort to victims of christianity anywhere.

So in other threads I see people saying stuff like "where are the "good" Muslims to condemn the behavior of these freaks (the freaks being the Muslims that do very evil things or at least those calling themselves Muslims)?", yet here we have someone saying it will do little good if a "good" Christian condemns these actions by someone claiming they did this because of the Bible.


So I guess the saying is true you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

No - I'm saying you're not damned at all because religion is a crock, and "good" religion-believers condeming something dosen't matter squat to the nutjobs who can use vague historical myths to justify whatever they want.

There is just no pleasing the people of ATS.

since "the people of ATS" are not some monolithic block I am surprised you could possibly have thought otherwise.

No matter what a person of faith does they are lumped together with the nut cases that do evil things. I don't get it. What is a "good" Christian supposed to do exactly? I thought it was right to condemn the evils of those claiming to be doing things under the guise of Christianity that is completely unchristian.

where did I say that "good christians " should not condemn this. as someone else pointed out, anyone who is "good" should condemn this.

you completely fail to grasp my point - which I have repeated above for you.

So even though it will do little good I guess I will condemn the actions of these evil people.

Just so you know, just because people throughout history have claimed to do things in the name of God, faith, or holy books does not mean it is so. The hearts of mankind do evil things for their own passions and often use a scapegoat to take responsibility off of themselves.

Just so as you know, that's a crock - when "the word of god" is in a book, and people are able to use that book to justify evil and cruelty, then that is good evidence that god can't actually communicate what she/he/it actually means - so much for omnipotence, andpersonally, so much for god.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


If you are not saying it why even bring it up? Oh wait I know. You wanted to through a jab at a religion just because. It is understandable; cheap shots always make great points.

You never said "good" Christians shouldn't condemn the actions of these people. However, you never said that good people should not. The point is you picked out Christians individually, knowing full well it matters not that these people are nut cases and would not be associated with Christians. Same goes for those who attack Muslims based on the actions of a few.

Again you have such a need to attack religion in general you missed the point that people will claim anything in the name of the God just to make their own actions seem less reprehensible. Instead of going after that point you rant on about God, and whether or not such a being is omnipotent. Just two posts tell more about what the intent is than anything else. There are plenty of threads that attack religion, why not post in them since it seems the meat of the story is less important than a possible side story?


Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

If you are not saying it why even bring it up? Oh wait I know. You wanted to through a jab at a religion just because. It is understandable; cheap shots always make great points.

lol - I didn't bring it up - you did - go figure out why you did that yourself!

You never said "good" Christians shouldn't condemn the actions of these people. However, you never said that good people should not. The point is you picked out Christians individually, knowing full well it matters not that these people are nut cases and would not be associated with Christians. Same goes for those who attack Muslims based on the actions of a few.

I picked out christianity specifically because the story was about people using the BIBLE to justify these cruel actions. There fore tehese people ARE associated with christians.

Sorry to burst your rose-tinted bubble - but this is the real world - peole use religion to justify doing evil.

I also then expanded it to a general condemnation of religion because I think all religion sucks.

Again you have such a need to attack religion in general you missed the point that people will claim anything in the name of the God just to make their own actions seem less reprehensible. Instead of going after that point you rant on about God, and whether or not such a being is omnipotent.

And observation is not a rant.

Disconnected and random scribbles seeking to shout down criticism are a rant.

Just two posts tell more about what the intent is than anything else. There are plenty of threads that attack religion, why not post in them since it seems the meat of the story is less important than a possible side story?

Because this is a story in its own right and I decided to do so - that's called free speach and ree will - means I can open new threads in accordance withthe T&C's without having to pander to your need for religion to be cucooned from criticism.

Why do you want to limit discussion of religious nutjobs to existing threads?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


In the first post you called out all Christians, so no you brought it up. Just because some nut case uses the bible to justify their actions does not associate them with Christians. You even stated in your fist post it would not matter if "good" Christians disassociated themselves by condemning the actions of such people.

As for the next part you started exactly what I did in the last post. Nut cases throughout history have used the bible to justify their actions. That however does not make them Christians, just as someone using the Koran to justify their actions makes them Muslim.

The rest of your post ignores the fact that nut cases claim many things that are not true. Yet going back to the first post it matters not if we disconnect from them through condemnation because you will lump us together anyway.

The problem is that these people wanted to do their acts of evil. They found someway even if they had to make it up to justify that evil. The next problem is that you are eating it up and falling into the bias the media is handing you. Not that it will help because you are going to use whatever fantasy you chose to justify you hatred of religion.


Have a good day.

Raist

Why are we fighting about religion here? In no mainstream Christian denomination is it taught it is okay to shock your kid and give them substandard nutrition. I was raised up by a strict Christian mother and attended a strict Fundamentalist Baptist Church in my youth and none of us ever heard our pastor even remotely condoning anything like this. The mother in this story is sadistic and sick and evil and pulling a justification out of nothing but her twisted mind. Is she an adoptive mother? How the heck did this get past the adoption authorities? I thought adoptions were supposed to be hard to get.

Anyway, what is up with these shock collars anyway? I've trained dogs of all kinds all my life and never resorted to anything so cruel. IMO they shouldn't even be used on dogs. It disrupts the communication and authority you are supposed to build patiently, gradually and visibly. A shock out of nowhere may get the job done quick and dirty, but the end result, as a whole, is nothing I'd want. Again, that's just my opinion. There might be trainers out there who have a different opinion and a proven methodology using such a device. That's not a path I ever wanted to go down with my own dogs, so I would not know.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

In the first post you called out all Christians, so no you brought it up.

Perhaps you shold read it again -

The mere fact that religious nutcases like this can even THINK that their behaviour is acceptable is an indictment on fundamentalists of all ilks - whether it be moslems in the mid-east, or x-ians in the USA, or anyone anywhere else.

No doubt "good christians" will condemn this - but that'll be little comfort to victims of christianity anywhere.

If you think "all christians" = "religious nutcases like this" then you have seriously misunderstood me - sorry about that!

I guess I did take the post a bit wrong. My apologies for that. What got me though was that even if Christians did condemn this and disassociate themselves from such behavior it "would do little good". This is much like when all these threads pop up about some guy claiming to be Muslim blows something up and then you have people saying "where are the nonviolent Muslims?" if they do not agree.

I do not want to be lumped with people like this and I am certain any Christian out there would not either. It sickens me that people use religion to justify the evil in their hearts religion is not an evil thing, the hearts of mankind are though.


I am sorry if I took your intentions the wrong way.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
I guess I did take the post a bit wrong. My apologies for that. What got me though was that even if Christians did condemn this and disassociate themselves from such behavior it "would do little good".

Fair enough.

I do still think it will do little good though - perhaps that is a bit dismissive, but in general it seems that "moderates" of any given religion simply do not have "control" over how their religion is used to justify bad stuff.

All religions have "good" sides that they promote - but that doesn't stop the extremist nutjobs.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Sad thing is you cannot keep the nut jobs out of any part of society. You have evil people in government, police, military, religion, and you can find evil sandwich makers that are atheist. Of course you can also find some very good people in all of those same places, well I am skeptical of the government part yet but I do have hopes.

Religion because of its nature is not immune to being infiltrated, and I know that there are those who will condemn people claiming religious justification for wrong doing. The sad thing is the world is filled with evil nut cases that do really bad things to people and animals. Even those claiming they have the justification through religion to torture animals are wrong and should be condemned.

Raist

>>
Just because some nut case uses the bible to justify their actions does not associate them with Christians.
>>

It's amazing how many serial killers, deranged psychopaths etc. are acting "in the name of god" or "because the bible told me so". There is a pattern there, do me a favor and read up on some crime cases, known and notorious serial killers etc.

The irony here, that some/many of those people committing real life murders, torture etc. etc. are likely doing this while BEING CONVINCED that what they're doing is right, good etc....basically holding whatever they read out the bible HIGHER than real life. Eg. it's ok to torture and kill other people as long as what you do conforms to the bible. (Or what you THINK the bible tells you). Examples of this....MANY, MANY, MANY....

delete, double

reply to post by flexy123


I have read on nearly all of the serial killer cases. The mind of a serial killer is a bit interesting to me. I am not sure how it is a favor to you on whether or not I read cases about them though.

The reality is that I stand by my original line of thinking. Just because some nut case uses the bible or any religious writing does not mean they are to be associated with the religion. I did not think I needed to make it any clearer. There are many people throughout the world that can quote bits from the bible. Many like to quote that women should be obedient to their husbands ignoring the fact that it also says that the husbands should not be oppressive. It is about love not control.

18Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them. 20Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord. 21Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.

biblebrowser.com...

If it were about control the rest of the writing would not be there. Many like to point out that women should obey husbands leaving out the rest. Women have to have a say in the relationship or it is not a relationship. If it were all about just obeying and not having a say it would be more along the subject of being a slave and being owned. No man owns a woman just as no woman owns a man (well they do in one way but that is another subject ).

Raist