Cuba receives first US shipment in 50 years

reply to post by Juggernog


If the man needs treatment he could have gone anywhere in the world for State of the Art care Europe, Japan etc. The man has Billions.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Juggernog

 

If the man needs treatment he could have gone anywhere in the world for State of the Art care Europe, Japan etc. The man has Billions.

I wasnt talking about financial limitations, I was referring to the political issues involved but whatever, isnt worth a huge debate.

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

I'm not here to debate the claims of Micheal moore. I'm just saying that Cuba does indeed have a very good medical program

Didnt Hugo Chavez go to Cuba for his cancer treatment? I realize his choices were limited but that should say something.

Yes, but apparently haitian refugees dont go there, so that somehow proves the medical system isnt good, or something. I'm having difficulty following the logic, to be honest.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Juggernog

 

If the man needs treatment he could have gone anywhere in the world for State of the Art care Europe, Japan etc. The man has Billions.

And yet he went to Cuba.

Hmmmm

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Do you actually not see how that is a straw man?

It falsely implies that Haitians all want to get into the US for health care and health care alone

No,

That's your take on it.

Hey, more straw men!

Where did I say that? I just said they have a very good medical program. I've actually been there. Have you?

Fair enough

How about sharing your experiences with the Cuban medical services and take this opportunity to educate the rest of us.

reply to post by SLAYER69



Sure. Short answer: it's a very poor country, but residents have access to levels of care poor people in the states dont always have. Communism sucks (as practiced there, at least), but the investment in the medical system has directly benefited many cubans. They enjoy, on average a level of care above and beyond their nations relative level of wealth (or lack thereof). Procedures that could cost tens of thousands of dollars in the states are free for Cubans.

Also, since you are so obsessed with Haitian boat people, here's an interesting article on Cuba's medical professional helping people in Haiti.

www.sevenoaksmag.com...

Originally posted by stanguilles7


Yes, but apparently haitian refugees dont go there, so that somehow proves the medical system isnt good, or something. I'm having difficulty following the logic, to be honest.

Because being spoon fed Michael Moore's Utopia, or someones who's "supposedly" been there, really doesn't jive with what I have heard. I know MANY Cubans,actually, that have escaped that country, and they all say the medical conditions,are not what people, like you, have made them out to be.

I really don't like posting from Fox News, but in reality, this is the "Medical" Utopia, you, being a guest, probably didn't see. We definitely know Michael Moore didnt show this, in his movie......

You can start at the 42 sec mark........

The Cubans have done some great things in the area of sustainable agriculture, in recent years. They also ended up developing some interesting public transport solutions, as well as the aforementioned medical program.

Contrary to what Washington will have you believe, Communist governments aren't usually all bad. If you look at a few of the other countries in Latin/South America, you'll find some outstanding social programs; and we've been hearing about Gadaffi's regime possibly not having been anywhere near as bad as was often claimed, recently, as well.

The problem with Communist governments, from the Western perspective, is that they tend to be run by single, autocratic dictators with a tendency to murder dissenters. So while the positive side is that said leaders often genuinely are more concerned with public welfare than democratic leaders, ironically; the downside is that they tend to be merciless towards anyone who challenges them.

The American government loves demonising Sadaam Hussein, as another example, but we ended up finding out, that although he killed many as well, his people actually had one of the highest standards of living in the Arab world. Iraq had an unusually highly developed power grid in particular, by Middle Eastern standards.

Originally posted by sonnny1
I really don't like posting from Fox News, but in reality, this is the "Medical" Utopia, you, being a guest, probably didn't see. We definitely know Michael Moore didnt show this, in his movie......

You can start at the 42 sec mark........

Call this my first ever attack of arbitrary skepticism, but I do not consider Fox News a reliable source of information, personally.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by sonnny1
I really don't like posting from Fox News, but in reality, this is the "Medical" Utopia, you, being a guest, probably didn't see. We definitely know Michael Moore didnt show this, in his movie......

You can start at the 42 sec mark........

Call this my first ever attack of arbitrary skepticism, but I do not consider Fox News a reliable source of information, personally.

I hear you. I really didn't want to use it. The Cubans, I know, tell a different tale. NO ONE can tell me its a perfect Utopia there. Heres one that isnt presented by Fox News........

I watched the video, for the record. Yes, Moore is an attention-seeking socialist with an axe to grind, and everything he puts out should be viewed more as entertainment than reliable information. Moore is basically the Left's answer to Alex Jones.

Fox News, on the other hand, are just as bad, if not worse. Bill O'Reilly in particular should be fired from the network, and legally prohibited from appearing on broadcast television again in my opinion. This footage of Cuba may or may not be authentic; given what I know of Fox's usual fascist agenda, it's enough to cause me to refrain from 100% believing anything from them, at face value.

Originally posted by sonnny1
I hear you. I really didn't want to use it. The Cubans, I know, tell a different tale. NO ONE can tell me its a perfect Utopia there. Heres one that isnt presented by Fox News........

This footage is disturbing. I would want to know how much of this is due to the Castros hoarding the country's income to themselves, and how much it is due to the trade embargo. My suspicion is, that both factors are probably at work, there.

The relationship between United States and Cuba is like a scientist and his lab rat.

United States has kept Cuba alive (non-invasion) while mainstream media toy with the "democracy vs communism" political agenda.
In the past, United States waged war (thru CIA) on Cuban Children by poisoning their milk supply in presuming that the public would revolt against Fidel Castro government.

Lets not forget that Guantanamo Bay is located at southeast corner of Cuba, Oriente province.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by sonnny1
I hear you. I really didn't want to use it. The Cubans, I know, tell a different tale. NO ONE can tell me its a perfect Utopia there. Heres one that isnt presented by Fox News........

This footage is disturbing. I would want to know how much of this is due to the Castros hoarding the country's income to themselves, and how much it is due to the trade embargo. My suspicion is, that both factors are probably at work, there.

Disturbing it is. About the trade embargo, Yes it might hurt Cuba, and America, but..........Cuba does trade with other countries, so I feel like its a cop out,to some extent............

Russia buys 27% of Cuba's exports; Canada, 18%; and Spain, 8%. Imports come from Spain (17%), France (9%), and Canada (9%).

Cuba - Foreign trade

reply to post by petrus4


Star...

I couldn't find fault with your reply.
Seems like a fair assessment in my opinion

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by petrus4

 

Star...

I couldn't find fault with your reply.
Seems like a fair assessment in my opinion

edit on 15-7-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Thank you, but I don't want to seem to bash Moore too much, either. Bowling For Columbine was one of the most emotionally tiring, and all around one of the best films I've ever seen. Moore expressed a lot in that film which I think needed to be said, and he also provided a degree of closure for an event which, I felt, really needed it.

With that said, however, he is a grand stander and an attention seeker, as mentioned. His portrayals of Socialism are also extremely simplistic. A purely Socialist system isn't going to automatically work well, any more than a purely Capitalist system does. It's a lot more complicated than that.

reply to post by petrus4


As I was sharing with another member earlier I'm not ashamed to say I'm not a Moore fan. The Man Lies and sidesteps and often smears the truth and leaves out ample amounts of facts if it doesn't fit into his version of events or film making agenda.

He'll present some facts[Good thing] then omit critical pertinent information. [BAD] which completely throws the context out the window IMO

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by petrus4

 

As I was sharing with another member earlier I'm not ashamed to say I'm not a Moore fan.

Disliking Moore is entirely your perogative. It's not something you need to be ashamed of.

I often find his material entertaining, and sometimes even cathartic; but I view it for what it is. Entertainment. Moore's goal is to put his face on your screen; not to try and give you accurate information about how the world really works.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by stanguilles7


Yes, but apparently haitian refugees dont go there, so that somehow proves the medical system isnt good, or something. I'm having difficulty following the logic, to be honest.

Because being spoon fed Michael Moore's Utopia, or someones who's "supposedly" been there, really doesn't jive with what I have heard. I know MANY Cubans,actually, that have escaped that country, and they all say the medical conditions,are not what people, like you, have made them out to be.

Lol.

Okay, first:

This isnt a thread about Michel Moore's claims about Cuba. In my forst response in this thread to your buddy slayer, I specifically said I have never seen Moore's film. My comments about Cuba's medical system are not a defense of Moore. And attacking Moore does not address my points about Cuba's health care system

You are just engaging in juvenile debate tactics to talk around a point, and associate an argument with anothet unrelated topic.

Is micheal moore a douchebag? Probably. Does that prove Cubas medical system doesnt work? No, obviously not.

I really don't like posting from Fox News, but in reality, this is the "Medical" Utopia, you, being a guest, probably didn't see. We definitely know Michael Moore didnt show this, in his movie.....

More staraw men. It's all you have. I never called it a "Utopia". I never defended moores apparent claims. I merely said that your and Slayers argument that Cuba's medical system sucks because Haitian refugress dont go there is pathetic and juvenile, not to mention totally inaccurate.

What next, say I eat live babies and worship goats, therefor Cuba sucks?

reply to post by sonnny1
So you "know some Cubans"? Great, then they should know Cuba is one of the top places to go for Cancer treatment. You "know" Cubans and my aunt has had treatment in Cuba.

My wife's auntis a very prominent Uruguayan lawyer. She is very wealthy and like Chavez could have gone to many other places around the world for her cancer treatment. After researching and speaking with many South American and US doctors she chose Cuba. She is currenlty in remission and we all pray she stays that way.

My wife'sfamily is from Uruguay and Argentina and I love discussing politics with them when we are visiting. They all laugh at us in the US. They find the US's (not mine) obsession with Chavez hysterical.....the same goes for our actions towards Cuba, again laughable. I know from my many years going to South America, us Americans are laughed at and looked at as ridiculous on many topics.