Why is everyone against a national I.D.?

I think people are against it not for what it is now, but for what it's a precursor to (i.e., chip implants, etc.).

Why? Why have a National ID? They will ask, and I tend to agree.
We have drivers liscenses, SSNs, work IDs, school IDs, what would be the purpose of yet another ID?
And when was the last time the Gov. had our best intrests in heart? How will this benefit us?

www.spychips.com...

What i find more scary is the tracking systems allready installed in some products (ck, Champion, gillette etc, 103 major companies use these tracking chips or are researching into using them)

The manufactures of these chips talk of "pacifying" consumers, hoping for "apathy," and bringing lawmakers into the "inner circle":

www.spychips.com...

Allthough their range is up to 40 feet, that does not stop sensors being set up in public places giving a "ping" and a unique serial code evertime a person walks by them in the street or in a store.

They could be used for spying, or marketing....spyware in our clothing.

[edit on 7-10-2004 by electric squid carpet]

Originally posted by mwm1331
Truelies let me put it this way, I can using a piece of software I pay 19.95 a year for, with only your name, find out your credit history, civil history, ss number, work history, criminal record, adress, phone number, purchase history etc. Me, a private citizen. Now do you really think the US government cant do at least as much? All this as a private citizen without any form of national ID. How does having a national ID make it any easier for the government to track you?

if that is the case, then why do they need them? its only to enforce people to have to show id whenever gov feels like it. i dont think that is right. IF its already easy to track citizens, then the gov does not need a national id and its a waste. just more removal of states to central gov authority.

I do not want to give my fingerprint or any other private information (eye scan, DNA, blood type) because I AM NOT A CRIMINAL, AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED LIKE ONE!

However, I'll admit, they'll make me a "criminal" because I refuse to submit. They want a fight, they have one comin'.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Mockan do you relly beleve the Government can not get the same exact information on you or nybody else right now? I mean I have software which can automaticaly search the net and pull up credit, criminal and all other sorts of info on anybody and I am a private citizen. How would a national I.D. really confer any additional power?

I've used such software myself. What centralized data banks will
enable is integrating the existing information resources, with the
planned expansion of data to include all of an individuals activities
from the cradle to the grave, with everything time stamped.
The national ID is a continuation of efforts to change society, gradually,
while discrediting critics as alarmists, to accept total monitoring of
all citizens. There will be NO privacy at all. Ask yourself whom do you
trust?

Perhaps we need not be radical in the hypotheses given here. Due to the specific's, our society has allowed foreigners to enter, via over boarders and other means, illigally. Some sell Driver license on the streets, back alleys. This has not been dealt with in a larger equation until now. This situation is for our own protection, this is not a micro chip. Its essential to our society as a whole.
( example might be ) Your traveling on vacation someplace in America,
Your listening to your favorite song singing along. Than this guy hits your
beautiful car that you just polished. To find out that this guy has a fake id, no car insurance, and just moved here from some land far away. Your just Sol....... have a nice day.........

When SSN were first issued, there was an outcry of "the signs of the end times" and "the government will keep track of us." sort of mentality.

I don't oppose a National ID, because what harm can it do? The government cant track us with this card unless it is required by an institution for verification of identity.

Since drivers license and other forms of identity are easily faked and can be purchased in the back alley's of American cities, a national ID that would be tougher to copy may be ideal in keeping track of illegals. Upon being issued, all information that would be required to be on the card, will be placed onto a national data-base. It would be difficult for fraudulant ID information to be placed on this data-base. Law-abiding citizens shouldn't have anything to worry about. They're not going to commit any crimes that's going to lead to scrutinization of their lives.

Again, it's just a card. When the government starts imposing invisible, laser-tatooed barcodes on your forehead or hand which can only be read with an ultra-violet light, then there should be a concern. As of now, there is no real threat. Only to those who are criminal elements that's lurking in the shadows of American society.

For the most part, the systems that can be used to track our movements are our choice to use. We don't have to use a credit card - we can still pay with cash, we don't have to own a cell phone, we don't have to be fingerprinted or give hair samples, we don't have to drive a car with a lo-jack or OnStar. True someone can find our background's online - but that's our history. With this they can know our, in real-time, present. People don't think that's a scary proposition?

Any idea that religious (let's be honest just Christians, and not even all of them) are against everyone belittles as something of religious zealots. This issue most people see as a civil rights issue and NOT a religious one. Although I wonder if the Jews that were against ID's in Germany were viewed the same way.

This isn't something as benign as just an ID. SSN being used as an example - it was meant only to be used for SOCIAL SECURITY, it's now morphed into something used for almost everything. What's to stop this?? What's to stop this from being an internal passport?

It seems the Republican members of ATS are towing party lines again - even when it's in direct disagreement of what the party is supposed to be about.

I see ID cards as a good thing.
If you are a law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about. They cant be used against you in any way.
Also, I highly doubt that goverment will waste their already very sparse resources to track you, Joe Nobody, completely irelevant to the fate of the world. They will track drug dealers, criminals, terrorists.
If there are no ID cards it is very easy to fake identity. If you have high quality cards and data stored in connected networks, then it becomes much more difficult to fake it and cannot be done without equipment... which has to be purchased... and for which you have to show ID card... and it tracks the purchase... see the point? You cannot stop it, but you can make it more difficult.

In an idealistic world these cards would not be neccessary, in real world full of criminals and evil, they are needed.
If a price you have to pay for catching a drug dealer or a potential terrorist (or any other criminal like child abductors, rapists, etc, etc) is info on your birth date and residence stored in some computer, I'd say that is a very small price to pay.

Having ID card does not really affect your normal everyday life. It doesnt STOP you from doing your job or buying stuff. It has no real, practical, mesurable influence on your life. Many countries on this planet have had these ID cars for decades now, and it has not turned them into some horror society or some dark goverment screwing up people's lives.

The part I don't like is this. Categorizing everyone by religion or political party, or whatever standard to government chooses. Then using the Patriot Act to charge people with terrorism at the governments discretion, to get rid of unpopular groups.

Originally posted by curme
The part I don't like is this. Categorizing everyone by religion or political party, or whatever standard to government chooses. Then using the Patriot Act to charge people with terrorism at the governments discretion, to get rid of unpopular groups.

hmmm as far as I know, an ID card contains only your name, date of birth, picture, and where the card was issued. At least thats the standard ID card in european countries. They say nothing about your political or religious affiliation.
In Bosnia, cards with microchips containing fingerprint info have been implemented recently, and that has made life and security a helluva lot easier to manage. So no problem there either.
These cards only affect your life if you have something to hide, something illegal.

I'm not against it....

I support it and welcome it.

I can't wait to get mine.

I'll be sure to post a pic of it here for all to see....

you have:
drivers' license (photo is in a data bank)
bank account
social security number
job
credit cards

Then all your information that you may think private, is already out there...
even through voters' registeration....

Originally posted by TrueLies
Can't we say this about SSN's???

I fear them for this reason... You need one to work... How come?? What if I refuse? Then I can't work?? That scares me.

Eventually our driver's licenses will be the national IDs. No need for another card.
I know you also live in MIchigan. I got my license renewal in the mail yestereday. It demands you provide you SS# to get the renewal. No number...no license. The other alternative is to certify at the Sec of State office that you DON't have a SS#. Maybe you disappear then

Posters seem to be divided about National ID being good or bad. So
not "everyone" against it.

Since this IS a conspiracy forum here is the URL that sums up the
conspiracy views about why national ID is not a good thing.
The author makes no pretense at trying to "prove" the conspiracy view..
just presents the views..
(but given the nature of conspiracies proof would not be accepted by
disbelievers anyway).

Take it for what you will.. titled
"Blueprint for a Prison Planet" .
www.nick2211.yage.net...


[edit on 8-10-2004 by mockan]

This is just a precursor to what the PTB have in store for us in
the future. What they would really like to do is inject an implant
behind the ear of every person in this country. Forget Drivers
Licenses, forget credit cards, forget SSN's, forget pin numbers and
ATM's. This little implant will readily identify you at all times, allow you
to purchase or sell when they tell us we can, and the guys in uniform
will simply wave a wand over your ear and presto! You are identified.
All under the guise of filtering out terrorists and do-badders.
Also, you will be tracked every inch of the way on your daily doings.
ZOOMER

Originally posted by ZOOMER
This is just a precursor to what the PTB have in store for us in
the future. What they would really like to do is inject an implant
behind the ear of every person in this country. Forget Drivers
Licenses, forget credit cards, forget SSN's, forget pin numbers and
ATM's. This little implant will readily identify you at all times, allow you
(snip)

From the URL (article dated early 2000)
www.nick2211.yage.net...

"The implantable microchip with global tracking system and
biomonitoring system, Digital Angel, is scheduled to go into
production in late 2000, (see later). It is powered by human
muscle movement and will be offered to people concerned
that they or their loved ones may go missing and to doctors
wanting to monitor their patients. Patents for implantable
'chips that release pharmaceuticals into the bloodstream have
already been issued and companies, such as ChipRx, have
been set up to develop them for the market. The technology is
here, the only question is: how much persuading will be
necessary to make us accept it? One thing is certain -
everything will be done bit by bit. Step by step, we will be led
into a place where no one, if they thought about it, would ever
willingly go - and without means of escape."

It was not acceptable to use a collar back when electronics
were more bulky.. but I recall the many possibilities discussed
about the application. For example increasing productivity at
jobs.. the supervisor could access some individuals collar by
radio using a keypad and shock the person if suspected of
being lazy. The collars could have small explosive charges in
them such that if any of the lower class tried to take them off
they would explode, thus eliminating the undesirables. The
electronics in the collar could transmit all conversations, and
today could allow satellite tracking of the persons movements.
With monitoring social relationships could be directed by the
Central Authority, thus eliminating the threats of unlicensed
assemblies of people. And for population control the Central
Authority would decide who should be eliminated and when,
thus insuring only the more socially beneficial people... those
with the weaker minds and conditioned to consume as
directed.. would be propagated. Anyone not wearing a collar
would not have food rations issued to them, would not be able
to get jobs, would not have any credits available to them.
Sexual relationships could be directed, and only relationships
approved by the state would be allowed.

The national ID, the biometrics smart cards, the implants.. it all
leads to the same goal desired in any police state. Control of
workers so Elitists can get their jollies.

Implants are more sexy, but the rationalizations for having
them is the same. The national ID is another small step in the
same direction. By conditioning people to accept each step towards
total control, when the day comes that they are directed to be
"chipped" with an implant, (or maybe the collar idea will come back),
the majority of a population could be enslaved, with no escape,
ever.

Will any of this happen?

Maybe not as described, but you better believe there are many
Elitists who would be overjoyed if they could implement such a system
of control over the masses.

The world is full of control freaks.




[edit on 8-10-2004 by mockan]