CBS News Confirms: Chief Justice Roberts Pressured to Change Vote on Healthcare

Originally posted by SaturnFX
It was approved by congress..do you not remember the whole big debate that went on for ages.

That was when they thought it was a mandate or a penalty. Not a tax.
The wording of what was passed didn't say 'tax'. So I don't know if that counts or not.
I really don't know.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by SaturnFX
It was approved by congress..do you not remember the whole big debate that went on for ages.

That was when they thought it was a mandate or a penalty. Not a tax.
The wording of what was passed didn't say 'tax'. So I don't know if that counts or not.

I really don't know.

They seen the tax, they passed the tax..the philosophy doesn't matter..they passed a tax that was not hidden. They could have been debating the merits of jelly beans and not paid much attention to the tax, but it was there..they did discuss it..it was the big debate issue, but it was passed.

reply to post by MRuss

If we can't trust our Supreme Court..... This country is already dead in the water.

Did you actually trust them after Citizens United decision?

I quit trusting them when they gave corporations the right to buy elections and basically handed American Government over on a silver platter to the Oligarchy that was already running the corporate world.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by MRuss
This is about socialism and oliogarchy. This is about the NWO.

Wanted to respond to this also

this is certainly -not- socialism. the evil socialism would have been the single payer universal healthcare..you know..the thing that actually works in keeping costs down while improving actual standards...

This is corporate oligarchy. This is the old world order...its how its always been, and for the states, how it will be for quite a while more.
Do you find it interesting that Roberts, the guy whom decided corporations are people, also sided with big insurance making out like bandits?
No..socialism this is not. This is what happens when capitalism becomes corporatism and purchases politicians and minds of people. But, it is still constitutional.
Perhaps its time to consider amending the constitution again...because soon people will not matter..corporations will destroy the peoples voice and will.
But ok..lets keep pretending its socialism at work here...while we are at it..lets also blame witches.

I agree with you.

Honest question though, and i value your opinion.

Do you believe the health care mandate is a tax or a penalty?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
[They seen the tax, they passed the tax..the philosophy doesn't matter..they passed a tax that was not hidden. .

Oh .. I"m not talking philosophy .. I"m talking about legal language.
I'm wondering .. I really don't know .... the word TAX wasn't in it.
Now SCOTUS says 'TAX'. Does that mean it has to go back to be
re-approved? I really really don't know? Legally???

reply to post by MRuss


I am not sure if you are misunderstanding these press reports on purpose or what. Yes, Roberts was pressured to change his vote, "desperately" and "relentlessly" but not by the liberal media or anyone else outside the court. He was pressured by the 4 other Conservative Justices, particularly Kennedy.

And "desperately" tells me those Conservative Justices themselves were being pressured by some "special interest" within our Oligarchy that holds sway even above the Supreme Court! Anthony Kennedy probably owes somebody money, because he bet the farm it would not pass. THAT should scare the pants off all of us.

CBS News Confirms: Chief Justice Roberts Pressured to Change Vote on Healthcare

(CBS News) Chief Justice John Roberts initially sided with the Supreme Court's four conservative justices to strike down the heart of President Obama's health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, but later changed his position and formed an alliance with liberals to uphold the bulk of the law, according to two sources with specific knowledge of the deliberations.

Roberts then withstood a month-long, desperate campaign to bring him back to his original position, the sources said.

Ironically, Justice Anthony Kennedy - believed by many conservatives to be the justice most likely to defect and vote for the law - led the effort to try to bring Roberts back to the fold. "He was relentless," one source said of Kennedy's efforts. "He was very engaged in this."

But this time, Roberts held firm. And so the conservatives handed him their own message which, as one justice put it, essentially translated into, "You're on your own."

They were notoriously closed lipped through this process and all but on lock down. Roberts is a diabetic and that is why he changed his mind that and he saw a way that it was indeed, Constitutional.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I remember the big debate. the one in which we were told "You have to pass the bill to see what's in it". Or how they used an end around by passing it in Reconcilliation

It was a real debate, huh? I would say that the health care bill was crammed down my throat, but it isn't my throat that is left feeling sore.

Reply to post by FlyersFan

what are you saying exactly? It wasnt a tax before?

Justice Roberts didn't fabricate the penalty. He re-classified it. A rose by any other name & all. It's the exact same thing!

I saw Beezer mad about this yesterday. You guys are trying to side step the fact that the penalty was in place for 18 months or so, but you're now upset because of what its called.
I don't like the mandate myself, to be sure, but to get caught up in semantics is pointless. Calling the penalty a gold bar or a plague doesn't make it any better or worse than it is in reality.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Do you believe the health care mandate is a tax or a penalty?

The way I sort of understand it, and this is an understanding that came about before it was passed and being debated on..was that ultimately everyone's taxes is going up..but you get a rebate when you show you got insurance. So, its not really a penalty as much as a reward or incentive..

My personal opinion on this..I am not in favor of it. Wasn't in favor of it back when it was the GOPs plan to push against the Clintons, not in favor of it now just because the dems moved so far right you don't even recognize them anymore..but it is a ever so slight improvement towards what we got now. Insurance companies will like it though.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I remember the big debate. the one in which we were told "You have to pass the bill to see what's in it". Or how they used an end around by passing it in Reconcilliation

It was a real debate, huh? I would say that the health care bill was crammed down my throat, but it isn't my throat that is left feeling sore.

edit on 2-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

It was passed by a supermajority.
not 1 more than the no's
but a filibuster proof supermajority.
That is not cramming anything down anyones throat. thats called the republic in action. that talking point is void of any reality. You elect politicians, politicians vote on stuff..majority rules, supermajority rules absolute.

The bill was online, every congressman had months to read through it (or have aids read through it),

Originally posted by spinalremain
what are you saying exactly? It wasnt a tax before?

I don't think it's a tax now even though the SCOTUS says it is. But that's irrelevant. What I'm saying is that it got passed without the term 'TAX' in it. It went through as a mandate. So I'm asking ... LEGALLY ... does this have to go back and get reapproved.

You guys are trying ...

Don't even try it ... Don't try to say I'm doing something when I'm not.

but to get caught up in semantics is pointless.

It's not 'semantics'. It's a question about legalities.
DOES IT HAVE TO GET APPROVED AS A TAX??
It wasn't thought of as a tax and the word 'tax' isn't in the approval.
So .. legally ... does this have to get reapproved? I really don't know the answer.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I still think that he just handle the presidency to Romney, but we will see, as for my husband just lost his job under Obama and his "we can do it "crapy motto, under Republicans my husband job was a secure job, we just changed our minds at home and now is going to be 4 more votes for the Republicans this November.

I don't like Romney but hell he right now look like Jesus compare to corporate whore Monkey Obama.

Reply to post by FlyersFan

I see now what you're saying.
I would say no. The fact that the highest court in the land found the law to be Consitutional, it doesn't matter how it got that way. It just is. It would be nice if there were other routes it would have to be subjected to, but I think repeal is the only alternative left at this point. All those who wrote the bill and presided over the ruling are lawyers. I'm pretty sure they know all the "ins & outs" of the system. I don't think we will ever live in an America without this mandate ever again.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Do you believe the health care mandate is a tax or a penalty?

The way I sort of understand it, and this is an understanding that came about before it was passed and being debated on..was that ultimately everyone's taxes is going up..but you get a rebate when you show you got insurance. So, its not really a penalty as much as a reward or incentive..

My personal opinion on this..I am not in favor of it. Wasn't in favor of it back when it was the GOPs plan to push against the Clintons, not in favor of it now just because the dems moved so far right you don't even recognize them anymore..but it is a ever so slight improvement towards what we got now. Insurance companies will like it though.

Hmmmmm. Very interesting.

Im inclined to agree with you.

Clearly the devil is in the details of this tax, and the law in its entirety.

I honestly dont get a feel of " the sky falling " because of this tax/rebate health care move.

It is different, in what we are use to.

Realisticly, how do think this will affect the common insured american?

V/r

You know here at street level, the daily blue collar workers.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I still think that he just handle the presidency to Romney, but we will see, as for my husband just lost his job under Obama and his "we can do it "crapy motto, under Republicans my husband job was a secure job, we just changed our minds at home and now is going to be 4 more votes for the Republicans this November.

I don't like Romney but hell he right now look like Jesus compare to corporate whore Monkey Obama.

edit on 2-7-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

May i ask how the corporate whore monkey obama got your husband fired from his job?

Respectfully asking.

reply to post by FlyersFan


No it was approved initially as a tax. The enforcement of the mandate always was a tax penalty. The only thing that really changed in this decision is under which power was it constitutional. Under commerce clause it isn't but under taxation it is. But all the mechanisms that it operates on to make it fit under taxation were already there.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Do you believe the health care mandate is a tax or a penalty?

The way I sort of understand it, and this is an understanding that came about before it was passed and being debated on..was that ultimately everyone's taxes is going up..but you get a rebate when you show you got insurance. So, its not really a penalty as much as a reward or incentive..

My personal opinion on this..I am not in favor of it. Wasn't in favor of it back when it was the GOPs plan to push against the Clintons, not in favor of it now just because the dems moved so far right you don't even recognize them anymore..but it is a ever so slight improvement towards what we got now. Insurance companies will like it though.

Hmmmmm. Very interesting.

Im inclined to agree with you.

Clearly the devil is in the details of this tax, and the law in its entirety.

I honestly dont get a feel of " the sky falling " because of this tax/rebate health care move.

It is different, in what we are use to.

Realisticly, how do think this will affect the common insured american?

V/r

You know here at street level, the daily blue collar workers.

Well, at my husband's place of employment, the insurance plan was dropped to a bare bone minimum, causing everyone to pay more in copays and, higher deductible, and less coverage. This was done in anticipation of the ruling, and my husband works in human resources and this is what he was told. I hear other companies have done this as well.

So what do you think? Has if affected the common insured American?

reply to post by MRuss

Originally posted by MRuss
The Justices were reportedly incredulious that Roberts had so mysteriously changed his mind---and believed he caved in to public pressure.

The Justices may have BELIEVED Roberts caved to public pressure. But it's not confirmed in any way. And even if they were upset, that's no reason to REFUSE to debate it with the Chief Justice... Hello? They aren't in 2nd grade...

Justices are not supposed to give in to public pressure.

You are ASSUMING Roberts gave in to public pressure. That's just one possibility. It's also possible he genuinely changed his position after much study and thought...

It wasn't about the vote so much as that Roberts was behaving strangely-----and not acting like a SCJ at all.

What is acting like a SCJ? How did he NOT act like a SCJ? You're assuming WAY too much! Of course, that's where most conspiracy theories come from... Assumptions.

Originally posted by marg6043
I don't like Romney but hell he right now look like Jesus compare to corporate whore Monkey Obama.

verses


so..just to make sure I get you...
your think Obama...is more of a "corporate whore monkey" than Romney...

What color is the sky in your world?

reply to post by artnut


(Well, at my husband's place of employment, the insurance plan was dropped to a bare bone minimum, causing everyone to pay more in copays and, higher deductible, and less coverage. This was done in anticipation of the ruling, and my husband works in human resources and this is what he was told. I hear other companies have done this as well.

So what do you think? Has if affected the common insured American?)

Done in anticipation of the ruling.

Your husbands company did that to him. Not the ruling.

I have heard that companies are starting to take such actions, and are screwing their employees because of watercooler talk, and grapevine speculation simply because they know somebody who heard something. Then they react half cocked at the expense of who......there employees.

The changes he felt was because of his employer and of their own accord. Not because of the health care law.

So. Is the sky falling, or do you think its about to fall?

Dare i say profit before employee. Class warfare at its finest. Thats another topic though.