Is it too late to hunt down Hitler's Nazis?

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


According to some conspiracies, some of the high ranking Nazi's fled to Argentina and tried to recreate a Nazi empire there.
2nd.

Originally posted by mayabong
Why don't we go a day without hearing about hitler and the nazis?

Jews run the media that's why.

Why aren't people going after stalins henchmen?

Why don't we have movies about the Ukrainian holocaust?

Or the rape of Nanking?

Nope, holocaust, hitler every day shoved down our throats

edit on 1-7-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-7-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

Actually, we do have movies on the Ukrainian holodomor.
Watch "The Soviet Story" online for a starter. Soviet Story
One guy made one film about Nanking - I don't recall the title.
The truth is that after the concentrated, unbelievable effort the Nazis made to kill as many European Jews as technically possible, modern humanity sort of collectively decided that this should be the symbol of the worst that man is capable of. The holocaust neither negates, nor denies other horrors. (Many happened later, like the Cultural Revolution, or was documented afterwards, like Stalin's abuses which were thought far less at the time). It was several decades later that the Soviet Union fell.

After years of documentation, it was clear that the two empires were not that different from each other. One could say though, that, at the time, Hitler's side could be judged the worst in history. It took the Soviets a long time to accomplish a similar feat. They also targeted Siberian Native peoples merely for their nationality (the same with Germans and Tartars), religious people merely for their religion, however, in general, they mostly exterminated political enemies. So their crimes against humanity are quite comparable.
However, of these empires, you could not have had alliance with Fascist Germany or Japan. Simply because they were mostly convinced they were both superior races and they would win no matter what.

Nazism was openly evil in a very concentrated way. It made no pretense at nicety - the way the Soviets did (embracing a philosophy that was supposed to eradicate poverty and lift up humanity etc.) However, these days all around the world, young people who have not studied history enough seem to have more and more of a need to revise the Hitler story. "It wasn't so bad" and "the Jews are at it again."

Well it was as bad as you cannot imagine.
I knew some survivors.
Their problems stretch out to this very day.

reply to post by Kokatsi


Ok so one movie about the Holomador and the other movie you can't remember.

How many hitler movies and holocaust movies have there been? How many shows on the history channel about hitler? over and over and over. (people are getting tired of the hitler crap obviously since the history channel moved its programming to reality shows lol)

No, people haven't decided that Hitler was the worst ever. Certain people have decided for us and have been shoving it down our throats. If you dare say he isn't the worst ever, you get called lots of names.
If you question any events of the holohoax, you get called lots of names but no real debate.

Anyways. Carry on believing what you've been brainwashed to believe. Remember the winners write the history books. Also the hollywood movies.

What's your definition of a Nazi?

Is it any German that belonged to some arm of the Nazi Party (which was often compulsory)?
In this case you could go for the Pope.

Are you referring only to proven war criminals or those involved in the holocaust or major atrocities?
Although many of the criminals were tried and executed after the war, several scientists were taken to the USA to serve the purposes of that state (as mentioned in the thread).
Some people that were persecuted as "Nazi criminals" long after the war were of unsure guilt, or even identity.
In fact, some of them were probably victimized simply for a political smokescreen, such as is probably the case of the recently deceased John Demjanjuk. en.wikipedia.org...
Then there was also collective punishment, such as the displacement of entire communities to camps and Siberia, or the terrible treatment of the "war children" who were fathered by occupying soldiers.
Then came the never-ending American wars, and from a recent doccie I watched on North Korea, even tourists are shocked to see evidence of what the Americans actually did there, which is never taught in the West.

Many countries had local versions of the Nazi parties.
Not all of them are as interested in persecuting former Nazis as Germany or Austria.
Their fear and hatred of Marxist dictatorship far outweighed hatred of the Nazis.
That goes especially for the religions, and one now much forgotten justification for Israel in 1948 was the growing antisemitism under Stalin.
Apart from the holocaust it's even claimed the Nazis treated their POW fairly well, and the partisans were not without atrocities.

Today there are massive Nazi movements in the former Soviet Union and in Europe.
I saw a documentary on Russia that says 40 percent of the population support some of the Nazi gangs, and their aim to kick out the "black foreigners".
The "Khazar Jews" are seen as a menace in many countries today, as can also be seen sometimes on ATS where some posts question the Zionist presence in US politics, and why such dual Israeli/US citizens are allowed to push the interests of another state (a state that's apparently constantly guilty of genocide).
So why go hunting in history?
There's open and self-proclaimed National Socialists today, and a lot of tacit sympathy for some of their goals.
Many others allow similar behavior under the banner of "historical justice" with disingenuous historical claims.

In Africa entire populations have been virtually expelled by Marxist/Africanist dictators (for example the Asians under Amin, the whites in Zimbabwe, the Rwandan genocide, the gays in Uganda and other countries, xenophobia in South Africa, the dispossession of the San in Botswana and increasing concerns about political hate speech and the brutal killings of whites in SA), and black racism and tribalism that can be very similar to Nazism is often overlooked.
Today we still have police brutality and torture in SA, yet the liberals no longer care.
It's no longer done under the banner of "evil apartheid", so by them it's OK.

Nevertheless, there was a series on Nazi Hunters that you might find interesting, and looking for actual war criminals today with witnesses would be very difficult.
This program from the series was on the hunt for Dr. Mengele:
www.youtube.com...
However there's lots of injustice in the world today, and a place for self-styled Inglorious Bastards.
The only problem is: Which of two evils would you pick?
Who are the war criminals in your country?

I think the youth in the 1970s was very outraged that war criminals were still alive and free.
It certainly fueled Marxist groups like Baader Meinhof in West Germany, although it was later said their anti-Fascism turned them into something very similar.
That is always the danger.
The oppressed turn into new oppressors, and the avengers create new terror for the innocent.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by Romekje

 

The youngest should be about 77 years old.

Folks are living well into their 90's these days.

Just saying.

Not sure how you arrived at this 77 year old figure.

World War II ended over 67 years ago. That would mean that a Nazi war criminal that is 77 years old today would have been 10 years old in 1945. I know that boys were in the Hitler Youth organization and were used as cannon fodder at the very end of the war, but to think of them as Nazi war criminals would be a stretch.
I think that the high ranking Nazis that escaped are dead now.

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


No it is not too late. Never too late. I can see why people of Jewish extraction would want them. It's pretty obvious and I 100% support them on their cause for justice.

However my family and many of friends were greatly effected by the Nazi's quest for "Lebensraum". It is still is a sore point in our family and many others from around the world. There are many people who feel burned also and they are not Jews.

So "hang em' high"

Why would anyone want to do that? Most of the Nazis were practically innocent but obviously lies and the ignorance of the public have lead the Nazis to have the reputation they have.

Even if they are still out there,which some are,let them die as old people.

Originally posted by Romekje
Most of them are either dead, or already found and brought before justice.

There's also a TV show about these guys (Nazi hunters on Discovery Channel i thought it was).

If you want to read/see more about this, look up information about the "rat line" (the escape route they used, mostly to South America)

Ever hear of Operation Paperclip? Many, MANY of them were actually simply re appropriated and relocated to different nations to continue their work.

reply to post by Kokatsi

Nazism was openly evil in a very concentrated way. It made no pretense at nicety - the way the Soviets did (embracing a philosophy that was supposed to eradicate poverty and lift up humanity etc.)

You have got to be kidding....right? It was the Soviet Union who killed their own people as well as the Ukranians in large numbers.Hitler knew about this,as did most Germans,and they didn't want it to happen to them which is why Hitler was so strict with Germany.

All you have to do is look at Germany before WW2 to see that it was Hitler that wanted to help ''lift up'' the Germans as well as humanity.Germany was heaven prior to WW2 which cannot be said about the vile,sick Soviet Union and their sick leaders.

I can understand that you have had it shoved down your throat for a long time about how ''the Nazis were evil scumbags'' but it just isn't true.

reply to post by phatpackage

Well for human lives it does get to a stage where it is too late.
Especially when people are dead, for example.

However, by the same token of stolen "living space" the post-colonial liberals will see every white person as a settler who took from the indigenous peoples, dispossessed and enslaved them.
So we shouldn't blame them for any lingering hatred or demands for restitution either.
It's never too late, after all.

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


I don't know maybe you should ask Angela Merkel, she is after all Hitlers daughter....

if you were serious you'd go after the modern neo-nazis at one of their public rallys and headbutt the leader square in the jaw.

the whole nazi thing is a charade anyways. it's just people.

reply to post by mayabong

If you question any events of the holohoax, you get called lots of names but no real debate.

Right, your sides argument seems to be based around name calling.

Anyways. Carry on believing what you've been brainwashed to believe. Remember the winners write the history books. Also the hollywood movies.

Looks like you threw out the insults first with no prompt to do so.

Your friend down there also made the same argument with the same implications of our state of mind.

I can understand that you have had it shoved down your throat for a long time about how ''the Nazis were evil scumbags'' but it just isn't true.

So the argument for the Holocaust not being "the worst" (What criteria do you use to judge?)is that we are all brainwashed? Forgive me if I don't take you seriously.

ETA: Hitler and Stalin both lay in infamy, so much so they are household names. I have seen several "holly wood movies" and independent films about each. So does the infamy of Stalin qualify as brainwashing too?

reply to post by Scope and a Beam

If you want to hunt Nazis, why not just go and hunt down some Israeli Zionist Nazis.

Originally posted by Scope and a Beam
reply to post by CosmicEgg

 

Why worry about the past when we're in the present? Ridiculous.

Who would you go after? I mean the Nazis were in the past so why bother...

Oh really....???

How about these guys?

www.youtube.com...

And even here in the good ole USA

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by TsukiLunar

So the argument for the Holocaust not being "the worst" (What criteria do you use to judge?)is that we are all brainwashed? Forgive me if I don't take you seriously.

Israel has been doing far worse then the holocaust to this day for over half a century now.
And you want to worry about something that happened 70 years ago for a few years.

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


if the Israelis' Mossad haven't found them by now, no one will. a lot did run to argentina and brazil though. there's even a really interesting story about a town that had an inordinate amount of twins and a mysterious german doctor( whom some believe to be mengele). interesting stuff.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Romekje
Most of them are either dead, or already found and brought before justice.

There's also a TV show about these guys (Nazi hunters on Discovery Channel i thought it was).

If you want to read/see more about this, look up information about the "rat line" (the escape route they used, mostly to South America)

Ever hear of Operation Paperclip? Many, MANY of them were actually simply re appropriated and relocated to different nations to continue their work.

this is true, including i believe the beloved werner von braun.

Originally posted by optimus primal
reply to post by Scope and a Beam

 

if the Israelis' Mossad haven't found them by now, no one will. a lot did run to argentina and brazil though. there's even a really interesting story about a town that had an inordinate amount of twins and a mysterious german doctor( whom some believe to be mengele). interesting stuff.

How could Mossad not have found them when they themselves are Nazi scum?

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Ok so one movie about the Holomador and the other movie you can't remember.

How many hitler movies and holocaust movies have there been? How many shows on the history channel about hitler? over and over and over. (people are getting tired of the hitler crap obviously since the history channel moved its programming to reality shows lol)

No, people haven't decided that Hitler was the worst ever. Certain people have decided for us and have been shoving it down our throats. If you dare say he isn't the worst ever, you get called lots of names.
If you question any events of the holohoax, you get called lots of names but no real debate.

Anyways. Carry on believing what you've been brainwashed to believe. Remember the winners write the history books. Also the hollywood movies.

edit on 1-7-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

Yes, the Holocaust was singled out as an example for humanity after the war. Germany pretty much faced its Nazi past. Plus, since it was so concentrated and obviously evil, it is easier to portray scenes in movies. Plus, as you reminded me, Jewry has many intellectuals who could argue the case of their ancestors with moving, high-tech scenes. Stalin was compared to the Holocaust as a measuring stick. He did not have annihilation camps, Gulags were like... you stuck a bunch of them into impossible conditions, to work, and waited for them to die. Stalin did away with political enemies by murder as fast as he could. He did not post goals to kill half of native peoples in Siberia as fast as he could. He simply put in his power system and carted away those that didn't fit in. The USSR was a chaotic, uncaring empire. You could get into a gulag for almost nothing, a bureaucratic mistake. The Nazis were frightfully caring. They listed all people individually, with all their possessions.

But this is also about the facing part. Germany did a pretty good job. Japan did not. When talks of Nanking were diplomatically mentioned, all they could get was a few words from a high figure, and education at home is the same as always: we are Japanese and we must be Western democracy. Nothing like... hey guys, we had an evil empire, which surpassed that of the Nazis in many respects, and we should teach that to our schoolchildren so never again...

The same in Russia. Since much of what was done was done against ordinary Russians, identity is different. It is not like "we did this to our Jewry et al." It is "we had a horrible system where almost everyone was suffering. In Holodomor, most victims were peasants, some illiterate. Plus that system crashed only decades later, in 1991, and there were still influential former Party cadres as heads of industry etc. Authority continued in a watered-down version.

China still awaits facing its Maoist past. It will come. Some people from Tiananmen are still in jail. The police removes all suspected opposition members from the streets before June 4. They are still paranoid about Taiwan, Falun Gong and its horrible persecution, and their own environmental nightmares.

You need the fall of a regime in order to have either a full facing (as in Europe with Nazism), a partial facing (such as being done in Russia and some extent of facing - done by Japan). But it looks more and more that the shock of WW2 is wearing out and people need to create a new war, possibly religious, to shock humanity into a more decent consciousness again.

In this context, anti-fascists and ardent Jewish historians are still trying to hold on the the Holocaust with its grim scenes as the measuring stick. But many people in today's world no longer accept that.

Films on Nanking: Nanking1
Documentary to watch

I suspect that now that the holocaust is becoming relativized in some people's minds, we are doomed to repeat it in some way somewhere. It really made a difference in the public consciousness of the civilized, humane and honestly religious world. In this you and I may be on two sides of this conflict. But you will see latest in 10-15 years what I talked about here in this post, when the next war will be over, empires fall and it will turn out that they did unimaginable things to citizens and others.