Obamacare amounts to slavery...

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
You and the rich agree.

No police, fire, sanitation, road maintenance for you then.

Sorry, but this is ignorance. Police, fire and sanitation get paid through LOCAL or STATE taxes such as property tax. Road maintenance is paid through gas taxes when you fill up at the pump.

100% of all income tax goes to criminal international banksters to pay ONLY THE INTEREST ACCRUED on our debt. Every dollar is a deficit created from nothing by the federal reserve bank. Read the Grace Commission report.

Obamacare IS NOT slavery, theft, or even healthcare. In it's purest form, Obamacare IS nothing less than EXTORTION:

The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

Under the Common Law, extortion is a misdemeanor consisting of an unlawful taking of money by a government officer. It is an oppressive misuse of the power with which the law clothes a public officer.

Source

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by Masterjaden


Whatever you do, don't research the income tax. I'm afraid you might stroke out.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

Hokum. Sounds like somebody has been listening to Rand Paul too much.

perhaps stefan molyneux is more credible?
unless you have some stake in o-care passing?

Fact 1: There Is No Law in the US Anymore
Fact 2: Obamacare Is an Admission That All Previous Government Healthcare Programs Have Failed
Fact 3: Cost has Already Doubled from Initial Estimates
Fact 4: 70%+ of Healthcare Issues Results from Individual Choice
Fact 5: The Inability to Discriminate on Pre-Existing Conditions is an Essential Driver of Healthcare Costs
Fact 6: The Fines for Noncompliance Are Destined to Rise Enormously

If Obamacare amounts to slavery, then so does the public school system and the public library. They are the same concepts, we are taxed in order to run those systems and in return we can use them for 'free'. I don't think Obamacare is perfect but I do believe it is a step in the right direction.

so what is a for-profit health care system ?

prositution ?

reply to post by LifeInDeath


I don't think the OP is saying that Obama's healthcare is slavery, but the thought of someone feeling they have the right to another's service is slavery and I have to agree. NOBODY is entitled to ANYBODY ELSE'S services, period. If you believe another person (regardless of their occupation or craft) must provide a service to you simply because you are entitled... well that's about as close to slavery as you can get before actually forcing said person to comply (making it literal slavery). I think people are either misunderstanding the OP's point OR trying to skew and warp it in order to: A) Justify Obamacare or B) Discredit the OP's logic on the subject.

We are all slaves in Corporate America. You have to pay $1000 a month for housing or live under a bridge. You have to pay thousands for a car or hundreds for public transportation. Most people have to pay hundreds a month businesses for for their food- all we do is work and give our money to corporations, but healthcare is slavery??

Originally posted by J34NF1C0
reply to post by LifeInDeath

 

I don't think the OP is saying that Obama's healthcare is slavery, but the thought of someone feeling they have the right to another's service is slavery and I have to agree. NOBODY is entitled to ANYBODY ELSE'S services, period. If you believe another person

Said it before:
Access to a fair trial in a court of law.
(And yes, there is some Irony in the fact that this discussion was sparked by a 3rd party rendering a service everybody felt they were entitled to)

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
perhaps stefan molyneux is more credible?
unless you have some stake in o-care passing?

Fact 1: There Is No Law in the US Anymore
Fact 2: Obamacare Is an Admission That All Previous Government Healthcare Programs Have Failed
Fact 3: Cost has Already Doubled from Initial Estimates
Fact 4: 70%+ of Healthcare Issues Results from Individual Choice
Fact 5: The Inability to Discriminate on Pre-Existing Conditions is an Essential Driver of Healthcare Costs
Fact 6: The Fines for Noncompliance Are Destined to Rise Enormously

Never heard of stefan molyneux and can't watch videos. But if those 'facts' are quotes from him, all I need to see is the first two to be able to say, No, stefan has no more credibility. Sorry.

Not a big fan of this law, because it just signs up a bunch more people to the insurance roles without adequate restrictions on insurance rates. So I definitely have objections, problems, concerns.

But to equate it with slavery is in my opinion disconnected with reality.

Being civilised does not make you a slave. Healthcare should be a right... in a civilised society. If you've no desire to be considered civilised fine, go ahead, vote it out.

reply to post by Seraph Sephiroth


Over there I understand if your poor you not worth caring for, or thats the understanding I get? Surely the sign of a truly great nation is its ability to care for all of its citizens regardless for colour,creed or wealth?

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden

edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)

I have a RIGHT to LIFE (Meaning, NO ONE may or shall take my life), LIBERTY (to go where ever I so chose to go unencumbered by LAW), and PURSUIT of HAPPINESS (to make as much money or do what ever makes me happy).

I AM NOT to be enslaved by another human being, government or corporation. I AM NOT a SLAVE. I REFUSE to live my life under such rule. I SERVER ONLY ONE MASTER, Yahweh (GOD) and NO MAN ! I Fear NO ONE or NOTHING other than Yahweh (GOD).

If you truly believe that people should be left to die or suffer if they can't pay you to help then you are nothing more than a savage. If you decide you would like to be considered something more than that then you have an OBLIGATION to your fellow man. If you're fine being considered and treated like a savage then it's all good.

Originally posted by J34NF1C0
reply to post by LifeInDeath

 

I don't think the OP is saying that Obama's healthcare is slavery, but the thought of someone feeling they have the right to another's service is slavery and I have to agree. NOBODY is entitled to ANYBODY ELSE'S services, period. If you believe another person (regardless of their occupation or craft) must provide a service to you simply because you are entitled... well that's about as close to slavery as you can get before actually forcing said person to comply (making it literal slavery). I think people are either misunderstanding the OP's point OR trying to skew and warp it in order to: A) Justify Obamacare or B) Discredit the OP's logic on the subject.

All doctors and nurses render medical help if a situation requires it. I do not know of a single medical professional that would not do everything they could, on their own time, in an emergency situation.

If a patient comes to a hospital now, they are treated, even if they are uninsured. The hospital knows that it will probably never get paid, yet they do it anyway. Saying a "doctor" will not get paid is silly; they belong to groups, hospitals, centers, etc. There are several GP's, specialists, surgeons that work on their own but many of them are also part of a group that gets paid, not the individual doctor. And specialists are often paid by the hospital for their consultation, if needed.

When patients are treated at "no cost", bills still need to be paid (and high salaries with them). So they raise prices so that the insurance companies help make up the loss on future patients. States implemented car insurance to prevent financial risk (it's mandatory) and companies make auto repairs. Do they get paid? Yes, by the insurance companies, just like doctors. If there is no insurance involved in an accident, the owner is fined and may get sued for damages. But the state pays for it through the "uninsured motorist" clause that you must have on your policy. As required. By the Government. Oh, and you pay for it again, through your own premiums.

Health insurance on a state or national level will soon work the same. We can no longer afford carrying the uninsured through medical expenses which drive insurance rates up. Make everyone pay for their own coverage so that the rest of us do not have to without some equity and balance in the equation.

Originally posted by Jargonaut
If you truly believe that people should be left to die or suffer if they can't pay you to help then you are nothing more than a savage. If you decide you would like to be considered something more than that then you have an OBLIGATION to your fellow man. If you're fine being considered and treated like a savage then it's all good.

Who is being left to die?

Not extending life - - is not being left to die.

So are there no exceptions?

Someone who has a disease they can't control and makes it so they can't work - children who live in a group home and need medical care - your next door neighbor is older and retired, but her sad social security doesn't allow her to pay for the medical attention she needs - they should all just be sick and die? Because otherwise, they are basically making you their slave?

The lack of compassion in this country is pathetic. We have a HORRIBLE health care system. Most countries actually CARE FOR their fellow citizens - their health care is multitudes better. Their unemployment is multitudes better. Because they realize the real value is human life. Not owning 3 SUVs, 2 55" tvs and then complaining because your hard earned money dares be spent on someone who desperately needs medical care.

It's so very sad how our country is progressing. People care about them - their little family and nothing else. A thousand years ago, people actually visited and knew their neighbors. They cared for their fellow humans. We are losing our ability to be social - and to care at all for anything that doesn't directly benefit YOU.

If you want to complain - complain about military spending. The astronomical amounts spent by our government for our military for even one year, would probably subsidize an amazing health care system for ALL our citizens for 20 years.

Originally posted by Jargonaut
Being civilised does not make you a slave. Healthcare should be a right... in a civilised society. If you've no desire to be considered civilised fine, go ahead, vote it out.

edit on 1-7-2012 by Jargonaut because: (no reason given)

I don't know what u consider a civilized society. But I prefer a free society to a civilized one.
i also don't consider a society where people are forced at the point of a gun to be responsible for the dregs of society to be a civilized one.

a civilized society will willingly help those in need.

Jaden

Originally posted by Jargonaut
If you truly believe that people should be left to die or suffer if they can't pay you to help then you are nothing more than a savage. If you decide you would like to be considered something more than that then you have an OBLIGATION to your fellow man. If you're fine being considered and treated like a savage then it's all good.

edit on 1-7-2012 by Jargonaut because: (no reason given)

I don't feel that way. I don't feel that government has the authority to usurp aithority the people haven't given to them or to force people to unwillingly help others.

Jaden

Originally posted by fleabit
So are there no exceptions?

Someone who has a disease they can't control and makes it so they can't work - children who live in a group home and need medical care - your next door neighbor is older and retired, but her sad social security doesn't allow her to pay for the medical attention she needs - they should all just be sick and die? Because otherwise, they are basically making you their slave?

The lack of compassion in this country is pathetic. We have a HORRIBLE health care system. Most countries
CARE FOR their fellow citizens - their health care is multitudes better. Their unemployment is multitudes better. Because they realize the real value is human life. Not owning 3 SUVs, 2 55" tvs and then complaining because your hard earned money dares be spent on someone who desperately needs medical care.

It's so very sad how our country is progressing. People care about them - their little family and nothing else. A thousand years ago, people actually visited and knew their neighbors. They cared for their fellow humans. We are losing our ability to be social - and to care at all for anything that doesn't directly benefit YOU.

If you want to complain - complain about military spending. The astronomical amounts spent by our government for our military for even one year, would probably subsidize an amazing health care system for ALL our citizens for 20 years.

No the difference is that I feel that society will willingly elp those in need and you feel that all of society must be forced at the point if a gun to do so

Jaden