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A Challenge to All Non-Muslim

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posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheFogHorn

This situation will get very messy within the next couple of decades so we need to start to pinpoint the problem and then bravely say what we want to see happen.

For me, the problem is Islam and the solution is to ban the heinous verses in it. That, of course, means the cost of the solution is paid for by many...not just muslims. That would, of course, mean all religious books would be scanned for anything that breaks current laws on sexual equality, incitement to rape, incitement to commit murder, etc. The ancient Hebrews had, like most other clans, rules and customs enforced in their rule book lots of things that ensured their survival.....at the cost of 'the others'. We are now supposed to be living in a fair and equality embracing world and such thinking is not only dangerous but also backward and it must be brought to an end. Broken hearts over broken books will mend.....broken bodies will not.
edit on 6-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)


Exactly how to ban the heinous verses, who have the authority and how to implement it and how broad it has to be done?

And how to determined what a heinous verse is and which value or law that will based on it and what major academic will they use?.

And about sanction, what kind of sanction for it? in what way? How about if someone "smuggling" those heinous verses back to their book, if for own use or for publicity, what the different for the punishment? and what kind of punishment for it?

How about constitution in every nations in the world, are they become subject for this law too? What about their law?




posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by maung

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

This situation will get very messy within the next couple of decades so we need to start to pinpoint the problem and then bravely say what we want to see happen.

For me, the problem is Islam and the solution is to ban the heinous verses in it. That, of course, means the cost of the solution is paid for by many...not just muslims. That would, of course, mean all religious books would be scanned for anything that breaks current laws on sexual equality, incitement to rape, incitement to commit murder, etc. The ancient Hebrews had, like most other clans, rules and customs enforced in their rule book lots of things that ensured their survival.....at the cost of 'the others'. We are now supposed to be living in a fair and equality embracing world and such thinking is not only dangerous but also backward and it must be brought to an end. Broken hearts over broken books will mend.....broken bodies will not.
edit on 6-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)


Exactly how to ban the heinous verses, who have the authority and how to implement it and how broad it has to be done?

And how to determined what a heinous verse is and which value or law that will based on it and what major academic will they use?.

And about sanction, what kind of sanction for it? in what way? How about if someone "smuggling" those heinous verses back to their book, if for own use or for publicity, what the different for the punishment? and what kind of punishment for it?

How about constitution in every nations in the world, are they become subject for this law too? What about their law?


The sanctity of human life and dignity should come before any religious freedom. If I set up a new religion with the human rights crimes of the Old Testament/Torah/Koran/Talmud I would expect to be arrested. It would seem though that if my abhorrent stories and rules were said to have laid on a seabed for thousands of years then I could claim the legal right to enforce and propagate them. So, if I wanted to include a story about a father being raped by his two daughters then that would be fine. If I wanted to set a religious precedent of sleeping with children, I could make out my main religious man had sex with a child and even get it printed into books and not worry about censorship. If I wanted to endorse a feeling of hatred of gays, I could just make up a story about some city being destroyed due to sexual deviancy and, due to the R word being involved, I would be quite within my rights to band the story around willy nilly.

If we really looked at the situation with freshly peeled eyes we would realise how unacceptable it is.

The Koran, the Old Testament, the Talmud.....these BOOKS would not stand up in court if a woman, a gay, an atheist or a child were to sue the businesses that produce them. I am hoping for that or for the brave ex-muslims with fighting spirit who are right now attempting to get at least one of them banned....and if one goes, they all go.

And when that happens, which it will, we can all then get on with working out what the best things were of all of them and work together for once for the betterment of the whole of mankind and not for just a part of it. Isn't that what we all want?
edit on 6-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


That mean you should write the whole guidance of moral value for everyone, for mankind regardless their background ( gender, race, believe, etc ) and have to consider all history around the world, to make condition evenly for everyone. Not mention have to consider about future generation when you start set new moral values. What do you think, should democracy involve with this guidance making or not?

And what you think about fairness and justice, what kind of fairness and justice mankind should have? for example did someone who make criminal offense should be punished or should be "reconstruct" their behaviour in some way. Is object can be seen by its value? can be the value be substitute into another value?
What kind of justice do you think someone should have if someone have unfairness act? Is it substitutable or not?

If you think fairness is needed, this new moral values should apply to all people regardless on their background in the same time start from certain time. How long do you think this will be applicable to everyone without loosing fairness?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by maes9
"you should be careful unless they will catch you and kill you instead of Tim Osman!"

The "Good Guys" always win in the end....


"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

You MAY want to heed your own warning:


"...the real violence against Muslims, it is not Jews, Christians or even America that is leading the pack in Muslim Genocide, but rather other Muslims. These numbers (almost 10 million killed by other Muslims) defy rationality and surely anyone with half a brain can see where the real problem lies. Islam may or may not be a peaceful religion, but the people who dominate the religion and are the face that the world sees as representation of the religion, surely are far from peaceful."

“some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”

Muslims Killing Muslims


"Jihad is directed not "just" against the unbelievers (the kaffirs, i.e., non-Mulsims), but all those who have "deviated" -- the Shi'ites, the Alawites, the Ahmadis, the Druze, Bahais, Yazidis, etc. It is holy war by armed resistance to all those who do not accept Muhammad's message as interpreted by the sacred traditions hallowed by all the schools of Sunni jurisprudence across fourteen hundred years of history. "

"...the primary and majority of victims have been Muslims killed by other Muslims in the name of Islam and "jihad."

Why Muslims kill Muslims


well you know it well why muslims are killing muslims!? because some of them are not muslims they are slaves and agents of west!
Riggie was the leader of Jundullah, a terrorist group, that was arrested in a plane which was going to Kazakhstan. and as Riggie itself confessed that he was going to Manas, an American camp in Kazakhstan. It was common that Aljazira and other TVs would show how that animal were cutting innocent's head off. to show that Islam is wild!
from captured videos it was vivid that they would pray and then kill innocents to God pressuer in southern Iran!
and then western media would tell that sunnies are killing shi'tes!!! but all of them was a western show.
and the same you can see what is going on in Syria. When western supported radicals and terrorist groups are deceiving stupid people by the excuse of Jihad against the unbelievers (shi'tes)! I can put the link here!
ia601204.us.archive.org...
but they are all liars and they are all agents of west. to exactly tell you that they are agents of anti_christ!
unbelievers are not those that you and these Wahabies, radicals and western backed terrorists are mentioning it.
unbelievers are those radicals saudies wahabies that their clerics prevented people to help Palestinians in 22 day war, while Hamas were sunnies. unbelievers are those and their masters.
this is our damned world. I'm not saying them to you but to those that want the truth.
edit on 6-7-2012 by maes9 because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-7-2012 by maes9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by maes9

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by maes9
"you should be careful unless they will catch you and kill you instead of Tim Osman!"

The "Good Guys" always win in the end....


"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

You MAY want to heed your own warning:


"...the real violence against Muslims, it is not Jews, Christians or even America that is leading the pack in Muslim Genocide, but rather other Muslims. These numbers (almost 10 million killed by other Muslims) defy rationality and surely anyone with half a brain can see where the real problem lies. Islam may or may not be a peaceful religion, but the people who dominate the religion and are the face that the world sees as representation of the religion, surely are far from peaceful."

“some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”

Muslims Killing Muslims


"Jihad is directed not "just" against the unbelievers (the kaffirs, i.e., non-Mulsims), but all those who have "deviated" -- the Shi'ites, the Alawites, the Ahmadis, the Druze, Bahais, Yazidis, etc. It is holy war by armed resistance to all those who do not accept Muhammad's message as interpreted by the sacred traditions hallowed by all the schools of Sunni jurisprudence across fourteen hundred years of history. "

"...the primary and majority of victims have been Muslims killed by other Muslims in the name of Islam and "jihad."

Why Muslims kill Muslims


well you know it well why muslims are killing muslims!? because some of them are not muslims they are slaves and agents of west!
Riggie was the leader of Jundullah, a terrorist group, that was arrested in a plane which was going to Kazakhstan. and as Riggie itself confessed that he was going to Manas, an American camp in Kazakhstan. It was common that Aljazira and other TVs would show how that animal were cutting innocent's head off. to show that Islam is wild!
from captured videos it was vivid that they would pray and then kill innocents to God pressuer in southern Iran!
and then western media would tell that sunnies are killing shi'tes!!! but all of them was a western show.
and the same you can see what is going on in Syria. When western supported radicals and terrorist groups are deceiving stupid people by the excuse of Jihad against the unbelievers (shi'tes)! I can put the link here!
ia601204.us.archive.org...
but they are all liars and they are all agents of west. to exactly tell you that they are agents of anti_christ!
unbelievers are not those that you and these Wahabies, radicals and western backed terrorists are mentioning it.
unbelievers are those radicals saudies wahabies that their clerics prevented people to help Palestinians in 22 day war, while Hamas were sunnies. unbelievers are those and their masters.
this is our damned world. I'm not saying them to you but to those that want the truth.
edit on 6-7-2012 by maes9 because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-7-2012 by maes9 because: (no reason given)


In your rant that exposes the need to eradicate seperatism via religion, you use the word 'West' or 'Westernism' in a derogatory way six times. Cleary you hate the West.

Please tell us....where do you live?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by maes9
 


Originally posted by maes9
well you know it well why Muslims are killing Muslims!? because some of them are not Muslims they are slaves and agents of west! I'm not saying them to you but to those that want the truth.

I ALSO speak to those that love the TRUTH. Religion and the truth are complete opposites.

God's not into religion. HE is into loving PEOPLE. Religion is HATE. God is LOVE.

Has it never occurred to you that those "agents of west" are the enemies of everyone and have been deceiving ALL of us?

We've been lied to about EVERYTHING (see sig) but religion is the elite's propaganda masterpiece that everything else hinges on.

The term "agents of the west" is not a common one here in the US. Is it possible that you are referring to the Illuminati (The Synagogue of Satan)?


The Synagogue of Satan
One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet.
LINK


The term "synagogue of Satan" is found twice in the Bible, both times as spoken by Jesus Christ, in describing people who simply opposed the Truth, and in both of the references the people spoken of were not even Jews in a religious sense.

Assembly Of Satan

Religion is a Mind Control tool with a hidden agenda that aims to blind and misguide you away from the truth. Religion is the original programming and mind-control mechanism designed to make you hate God and want nothing to do with Him. ALL pagan religions have the same agenda and were created for the same purpose!


"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. " Link

Religion was manufactured



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


I live in Iran. I DO NOT HATE WEST. not their nations, not my uncle that lives in Canada not my nephew that lives in Germany. and may be I take a trip to Australia for some studies. so not only I do appreciate the western goodness but I do use them.
anyway I do not know how to reference :UK kingdom, AIPAC, MOSSAD, CIA, Bilderberg, MI5, ......
so I had to simply use the word west.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


yes this is exactly what I want to say that religions are altered and They are misusing religions. but are human made Ideologies better than religions. for example Communism is dead and we are watching that Capitalism is diverting. so we should find the real truth. the truth is that there is only one message from God. but wrong clerics have altered the truth.
this is the real face of Khomeini part of his letter to Gorbachev.
"“Mr. Gorbachev
It’s necessary to accept the truth; your country’s main problem is not possessorship, economy and freedom. Your problem is lack of real devote to God, the same as that led West to meanness or will lead. Your great problem is the long and useless struggle with God.”"
and I also think that this is the problem in the west and east including Iran.
well I do not blame you for your views about Khomeini. he is not known well even in Iran. great men are always beyond their era.
those 1% unbelievers that are deciding for the world do fear from nations awareness. they know that this awareness will lead to his return. I mean the return of real Jesus. how will Jesus unite the humanity against the wicked!? it is itself the unifier of humanity. how? because he is the real Messiah of jews and the crucified alive Jesus of christians and the not crucified alive Jesus of muslims. so still monotheistic religions have many alike truths in themselves.
iluuminati and empire of anti_christ, and Masons. what is the meaning of the checkered floor in masonary!?
unfortunately they have great influence all over the world even here in Iran and especially in USA. when I heard the law of LGBT in some states of USA I thought that yes they were showing themselves. and the secret life of satan is going to end. I know that some may justify that by the word freedom, but it is the begining of slavery!
why and how and to who that 3000 americans were sacrificed. the same as Rachel Aliene Corrie and those on US Liberty.
just some barbaric backwarded individuals could steal not one but some airplane and do that in the middle of USA! even they can not do such things in Iran!
well why did they put the name of God on the dollar and now they want to remove it!
(the name of God is not on money even in Islamic Republic of Iran!)
the optimistic view is that they put it there to show that capitalism was devoted to God contrary to communism and now they are removing.
and the pessimistic view is that .....
these are the affairs of USA but it certainly will spread throughout the world.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


Allah bless you.

The light of Allah be your guide.

There is one thing I would like to add.

All the beauties will go away one day except the beauty of inside.

I think even the most stupid people know that , too.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


Religion is a Mind Control tool with a hidden agenda that aims to blind and misguide you away from the truth. Religion is the original programming and mind-control mechanism designed to make you hate God and want nothing to do with Him. ALL pagan religions have the same agenda and were created for the same purpose!

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. " Link

Religion was manufactured

Murgatroid, you confuse me. You sound like an intelligent realist in statements like the above, yet in other posts you come across as being of the most fundamental literalist mentality when it comes to the stories of the Bible.

You acknowledge religion was manufactured, but you take the Bible as actual factual truth? I don't get it. Can you explain, please?



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

What about the violation of GOD"S T&C?

Islam doesn't seem to care too much about the murder and violation of millions of HUMAN lives...

WHY should they care about LYING to them if MURDER is not a problem at all?



As I suspected. You can't do it. Instead you try to deflect and change the subject. Islam is against the murder of innocent lives. The only killing that is allowed is killing during war as a means of self-defense. It is not fair to judge a faith by the actions of people who claim to follow the faith. That is stereotyping. And it is wrong no matter what religion you do it with. There are Christians also who commit violence in the name of Christ, in modern times and throughout history. They are not accurate representations of Christianity just as these Muslims are not accurate representations of Islam.

Again, taqiyya has to deal with not revealing you are a Muslim if you think it would put your life or livelihood in danger. There is no other definition of taqiyya, no matter how you try to manipulate what it means and deceive people.

And you have the nerve to call me a liar? I'm not the one purposefully spreading misinformation.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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This is Khomeini


from his testament:
"""Selfish people, followers of taghoots (despotic, pagan rulers) abused the Holy Quran as a mean by which to establish anti-Quranic rules."""
""" Thus, the Quran, which was to be man's guide to moral and material life to the Last Day, was shelved and the rule of divine justice that was, and still is, one of the ideals of the holy Book, was all forgotten."""
"""of Saudi Arabia spends a good deal of the wealth of the people in printing the Holy Quran and considerable publicity and propaganda material in support of anti-Quranic ideas propagating the baseless and superstitious cult of Wahhabism ...(20). Fahd abuses the Quran, urges negligent people and nations to side with the superpowers. He uses the noble Islam and the Holy Book to destroy both. """
"""We are proud, and our dedicated nation is proud, that we adhere to a faith in which the Holy Quran speaks of the unity of all Muslims and the oneness of mankind. We are proud that our faith has retrieved the Quran from the cemeteries and has saved this Holy Book as man's prescription for freedom from all physical, mental and intellectual bonds that push him deeper into slavery and nothingness."""
"""We are proud that our women, young and old, regardless of their status, are present and active, side by side with the men, often more active than men, in all scenes including cultural, economic and military areas. They strive, sometimes more effectively than the men, for the propagation of Islamic teachings. Women who are capable of fighting take military training, which is a major prerequisite for the defence of Islam and the Islamic state. Our women have extricated themselves from the deprivations imposed on them by the enemies of Islam and by the inadequate knowledge of friends of Islamic tenets. They have bravely discarded the superstitions created by enemies through some ignorant preachers. Those women who are unable to fight in the war fronts serve behind the front-lines with such ardour and courage that makes the hearts of their men tremble with delight and it throws fear in the heart of enemies and makes ignorant individuals who are worse than foes shake with anger and fear."""
""""The USA is the foremost enemy of Islam. It is a terrorist state by nature that has set fire to everything everywhere and its ally, the international Zionism does not stop short of any crime to achieve its base and greedy desires, crimes that the tongue and pen are ashamed to utter or write. The stupid idea of a Greater Israel ...(36) urges them to commit any shameful crime. The Islamic nations and the mustazafeen (the meek, the oppressed) peoples of the world are pleased to have Hussein of Jordan (37) a professional, itinerant criminal, Hasan of Morocco ...(38) and Hosni Mubarak ...(39) of Egypt, fellow-mangers of Israel, as enemies. These are fellow-criminals with Israel and commit any act of treason against their own nations to serve the USA. We cheer to have Saddam, the Aflaqi ...(40) as an enemy whom friend and foe know to be a criminal, a violator of human rights and international laws and whose betrayal of the peoples of Iraq and of the Persian Gulf Emirates, has been no less than his betrayal of our country and people. We and the oppressed peoples of the world are delighted to be objects of criminal accusations by the superpowers through the international mass media under their control. """
"""What can be a better source of pride than the fact that the USA with all its military might, its boastfulness, its claims, its mass media and its allies among puppet regimes, has been so dumbfounded and disgraced in its dealings with the dauntless Iranian nation and the land of His Holiness Baqiyatullah (a title of the 12th infallible imam, Hazrat Mahdi (AS) who is now in occultation) that it does not know which way to turn and who to turn to?!! This is not the work of anyone or anything except divine assistance that has awakened nations, particularly the Iranian Muslim nation and has guided it from darkness into light: The Light of Islam."""
"""I now take this opportunity to advise the oppressed and noble nations, including our own, to stay firmly on this divine straight path that leads neither to the atheistic (Mulhid) East nor to the oppressive, pagan West, but to the path which the Almighty God has decreed for us."""
"""Let me say at this point that this politico-religious testament of mine is not made to the noble people of Iran only. Rather, it is recommended for all Islamic nations and the oppressed peoples of the world regardless of religion or nationality. I humbly pray that Almighty God does not leave us and our nations to ourselves even for a moment."""
server32.irna.com...



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
As I suspected. You can't do it.


Actually your "infidel" is outside painting for the day...

I may not have ANY free time until Sunday...

Is that OK with your Majesty?

EDIT: Can't do WHAT?



edit on 7-7-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by TheFogHorn
I agree with your sentiments but then you seem to stop short of actually saying what the problem is or what we can do about it. You are right to say we shouldn't simply demonise muslims but allowing this situation to carry on unchecked with no plan of action will make the situation deteriorate and people's lives will be lost...big time. This situation will get very messy within the next couple of decades so we need to start to pinpoint the problem and then bravely say what we want to see happen.


People's lives are already being lost, 100s and 1000s have been lost. Not here in the UK admittedly, but still, they count don't they? We, you and I, OpinionatedB, are fortunate, we live in countries that support our rights to free expression, to be whatever, or whomever we wish to be. If those rights are infringed upon we, just you and I this time, can not only take them to our courts, but if we do not receive satisfaction, we can take them to the European court of Human Rights. We have the ability to complain, and we should. However, while we as subjects of the UK have these rights, our government is all the more keen in ensuring that it's position in the global economy is assured, and to do that, it finds it necessary to support Islamic fundamentalism. Our government at no time during this drive of foreign policy, which not only trains and funds Jihadists, but also ensures that they are armed, have they considered the long term outcome of that foreign policy. This government, and previous governments, have consistently turned a blind eye to the recruitment of British Asians for guerrilla training overseas, and for their education in Wahhibist schools. It has consistently turned a blind eye to those individuals returning to the UK and spreading that doctrine within their communities.

So while I agree that Islam, fundamentalist Islam, is a problem, I also understand, on a much deeper level that the real problem is UK foreign policy. Therefore, if I fail to offer up a solution, it is because the government, the foreign office in particular, are a bunch of whores and I don't have the kind of money in my pocket in which to buy a solution. We've been screwed, but so have the Muslims, and practically everyone else for that matter, at this point in time, I can't see a solution to be honest. I don't pay taxes, and that for the time being is as much as I can do, knowing that I am at least not contributing. Editorialising the Quran is, to my mind, not a feasible solution, but if you think it will work, do it, go for it, but how do you plan to effect that? These things take time and effort, support and drive, otherwise, words are very empty.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


I agree with you on the Saudi funding lunacy but the idea that our laws can save us from problematic Islam are empty words....especially if the problem is fatal. How much help could our laws offer this man....

en.wikipedia.org...(film_director)

None and his family now live in fear of their lives and are unable to talk to anyone about their experiences.

How much help could our laws have realistically helped me in the muslim ghetto with witnesses? I just moved out of the area in the end. That is not justice in action but action without workable justice in the face of Islamification. Our laws cannot protect us from problems with Islam.

As with all problematic things, it is the people who have been affected the most who will have the energy needed to resolve things.....and who would be more affected than an ex-muslim? Thankfully, the muslim in the link below still (only just) has the freedom to attempt to criticise Islam, a liberty muslim countries have been fighting at the UN to have removed.

islam-watch.org...:spanish-parliament-accepts-pakistani-ex-muslims-petition-to-ban-the-quran-for -consideration&catid=103:islam

It was not that long ago when criticising Christianity would result in you being sent to prison and blasphemy laws are still on the books in the UK. Still, to this day, if you criticise it in the US you will be ostracised. At least, now, we will still live to tell the tale. However, our window of opportunity is closing as Islam fights for our rights to be dragged back in time.

Fundamentalist Islam goes hand in hand with moderate Islam in one big package called.....ISLAM.....just as the Medina period of fighting, murdering, raping, pillaged and female subjugation goes hand in hand with the Meccan period of peaceful recruitment of weaker members of society and feigned gratitude of subserviant hospitality. Muslims will tell you you cannot remove the bad bits as that would mean their allah was wrong so why do we not believe them? Why do we cherry pick the good bits and call that Islam and kid ourselves the bad bits are not Islam but horrible distortions of it? If it was that good and peace making, how come it generated so much blood shedding, land conquering, martyrdom, destruction of other belief systems and female suffering?


edit on 7-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by TheFogHorn

The sanctity of human life and dignity should come before any religious freedom.


What about the sanctity of the lives of the religious people, and THEIR dignity? What is it that gives you the right to dictate their lives?

No, that's absolutely unacceptable to a free humanity. You have the right to act dignified. You do NOT have the right to demand that others dignify you by force of arms, which the application of government to any problem boils down to.

.



edit on 2012/7/7 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


The example that you give, of the film director, he refused protection, so the laws could have protected him, possibly, as they have, similarly, protected Salman Rushdie. Did you go to the Police about your harassment? Unless you did, you did not even try to utilise them, so I am unable to comment on their effectiveness in your case. Laws are not there to passively protect, you have to ask for that protection and actively pursue it. And it is your decision whether you choose to do so or not. I don't believe in playing the victim card simply for the sake of it. Passivity, is in of itself detrimental to society, and validates 'bad' behaviour. If you do not stand up for yourself, using the tools available to you, then all you are doing is being a victim, not a survivor.

As I have already stated, UK foreign policy has an interest in pacifying extremism, both at home and abroad. Furthermore, and because of that, it has an interest in keeping hostilities within communities at a level so that they do not integrate and assimilate. You clearly bore the brunt of that policy, and while I sympathise, it is clear that you have used that experience to fall into the mindset of hatred of all, instead of understanding that such incidents and experiences are isolated and rare. Only by encouraging integration, and fomenting understanding of difference can we combat this policy.

Something interesting that I found in the area that my brother lived in in Nottingham, was that leaflets were regularly dropped through the letterbox propagating distrust of the police, encouraging residents not to call the authorities, but to take matters instead into their own hands. These leaflets were professionally printed but given the appearance of being from some small scale subversive organisation, but the language showed elements of NLP and other black propaganda tools. Again, the intention was to isolate the community from the wider urban area, create distrust and inward thinking, and it did so cleverly. We are as a species very easily manipulated, and almost look to be so.

There are some very dangerous groups and organisations operating in this country, and they have an interest in using the dissatisfaction of the youth, and specifically the Asian youth, to further their cause. That I do not doubt. Domestic policy doesn't help matters. Nor does the natural inclination of youth to reject the way of life that their parents may promote. The overall fabric of UK society, and the options that are available to youths in this country play right into the hands of extremists of all kinds, and we should consider very seriously what kind of future we are building, but I am not willing to accept that Islam is anything more than a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. It is very easy to blame a scapegoat, especially when that scapegoat is handed to you on a plate, it is much harder to look at the wider picture and your own role within it and ask yourself what you personally are doing to promote change.

The Saudis would not be in the position that they are now if it had not been for the UK and the US, we, combined, have created that situation. And, one way or another, we will have to resolve that. It is out of control, and both governments are so intent on preserving their own arses that they are not doing anything more than putting band-aids on the problem and #ting themselves about when the whole thing will blow up in their faces. Particularly in the UK, we have our two main intelligence services, MI5 and MI6 practically at war with one another over the issue, with the former trying desperately to deal with the mess that the latter has created, and neither one able to trust the other long enough to deal with the plan effectively. On an international level, we have the same situation between the CIA and MI6, and with Mossad. All the while, Pakistan's ISI, the Saudis and Iran are working in concert to maintain their powerbases and keep on the right side of the extremists that they rely on to do so. Somewhere in the middle of that, Turkey are trying to balance between both extremes, and the Russians are holding off the extremists that were funded for the purpose of securing a leadership that was willing to work with BP. Far away in the distance, China are just watching and waiting with the dustpan and brush.

So again, while I sympathise, with you, with them and everyone else, I can't see an easy solution to what is a global problem. And, again, the laws exist for you personally to take responsibility for yourself and to obtain the protection and help that you need, should you choose to use them. If you choose not to, and do nothing, and simply to play the victim card, that is your decision and you have nothing to complain about.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
reply to post by PuterMan
 


I never said other religions haven't comitted terrorist attacks, I said NO OTHER RELIGION OTHER THAN ISLAM HAS PLANNED TO COMMIT A TERRORIST ATTACK IN AUSTRALIA. I was talking about Australia you ignoramus.


So you can see into the minds of 20 million people and know what they have or are planning?

That sort of statement makes you an ignoramus.

I live in Australia, how do know what i believe in, if anything and how do know im not/ or am planning what society would call a terrorist attack.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by CrimsonKapital
 


This isn't your thread! Please stop trying to make it about Australia. If you are that concerned, then start a thread about it yourself.

Every reply on this thread has been polite and respectful....except for yours. Seriously, give it a rest. We got your point fifteen posts ago.


Actually I have been respectful, you all ganged up on me for my first post and began arguing with me, so I had to defend myself naturally.

FYI he brought up Australia so likewise I'm answering him.


Maybe because a majority of us find your first post very bigoted.

Hay but we all have our own opinions no matter how phobic they might seem.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by aries4211
ooo ya kets not forget how can jesus be a profit to u guys when he preached he was the son of god !! ur relgion is much youngers jesus warned of false profits ,,and u bleave this crazy warlord petiphile named mohamid


Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Nothing you wrote in your 1st 2 posts makes any sense,

maybe try spell check or let us know english is not your language before trying to insult 1/5 of the world.



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