It's About Time. Germany Rules Religious Circumcision on Boys is Assault

reply to post by Cytra


So again a female here saying it's ok to mutilate children because in the future it makes for better sex for them. You wrote the word "selfish" in your first post too.

reply to post by PsykoOps


I didn't do it for me, I did it for womankind. As far as calling it mutilation, I wouldn't go so far as calling it that.

According to dictionary.com:

mu·ti·late
1. to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts: Vandals mutilated the painting.
2.
to deprive (a person or animal) of a limb or other essential part.

Done to babies, its a small snip, I would not call it an injury. I wouldn't consider it disfigurement either, because I actually prefer the sight of a circumcised penis. I would say without the foreskin, its actually making the penis more perfect! If men had them in the first place, its because cave men didn't have real pants! Animals need foreskins to protect their shafts. It's definitely not a limb nor an essential part.

How about forcing vaccinations on children in order to get public education? Now that's more of an assault!!

reply to post by Cytra


Way to go acting on and perpetuating virtually ALL the myths that have been so clearly debunked in this thread. Did you even read the post just before yours before you posted your misinformed opinions?

For all you girls saying you won't go down on a man who is still intact, have you ever done that on a man who holds cleanliness as a value or are you just spouting learned bias from Sex and the City et al? Are you aware of how much your own bits smell at close range when not freshly washed with soap and water? My guess is you wash before inviting a man to participate down there - why don't you just ask your man to do the same??

@Cytra, I would have respect for your view point if you'd remove the outer labia of yourself and your daughters at birth for the good of menkind - you know, so it doesn't smell as bad and looks purdier - it's only a little snip after all

reply to post by RogerT3


Yeah except I'm not a newborn, defeats the purpose of doing it at birth. I thought men want us to trim the bush to make it prettier? Women didn't have rights 200 years ago, so clearly we're not the reason people were doing it in the first place. And a circd wang stinks too if its not washed either you know. Besides, what's wrong with my opinion? Opinions are not wrong, no matter how you all think you're "debunking" them. That's why they're called opinions. I'm just stating mine, its a public forum after all. And my opinion about the whole thing is that I think the Germans are trying to stick it to the Jews.

Originally posted by Cytra
I had my boys circd. Not for religious reasons but for the cleanliness. I would never go down on a man that wasn't.. ick! And its not like they can't use it anymore or not feel pleasure. I'm the first in my family tohave it done and I won't take it back. The boys can thank me later that they won't have to go through that pain as adults.

Guys, if you feel violated, like a you're missing a piece.. stop being so selfish and get over it. Its soo much better that way, no need to feel insecure about it. Seriously, if it were that terrible would they still be doing in today at the st. Judes childrens hospital?

And if its considered assault, I would be concerned that piercing ears is next for real.

Btw, circumsicion started as part of the Jewish covenant right. Isn't it funny how its the germans taking this up? I thought the germans were all hardcore and stuff.. my impression is that its a political stab at the Jews.

edit on 29-6-2012 by Cytra because: (no reason given)

You know I had to quote your entire post because it's this kind of mentality that really frightens me.

Complete trust in authority (St. Judes hospital do it so it must be good) coupled with either an inability to absorb facts or a lack of desire to self educate. Movie-type race generalizations and the most incredibly arrogant assertion that your butchered children can thank you later for their loss of body parts, sensitivity and sexual pleasure.

I know you thought you were doing your best at the time, but given the amount of information available in this thread alone, have you ever considered you might have been misled?

Originally posted by Cytra
reply to post by RogerT3

 

Yeah except I'm not a newborn, defeats the purpose of doing it at birth. I thought men want us to trim the bush to make it prettier? Women didn't have rights 200 years ago, so clearly we're not the reason people were doing it in the first place. And a circd wang stinks too if its not washed either you know. Besides, what's wrong with my opinion? Opinions are not wrong, no matter how you all think you're "debunking" them. That's why they're called opinions. I'm just stating mine, its a public forum after all. And my opinion about the whole thing is that I think the Germans are trying to stick it to the Jews.

you can have any opinion you want, and right and wrong are subjective to some extent, however, in a civilised society we tend to agree that forcefully removing fully functional and irreplaceable body parts from newborns is wrong.

The only reason you can make it right is by believing it's only a useless, redundant flap of skin.

If you'd read the post prior to your first, you'd know that's not a viable statement, so other than wanting your sons to get blow jobs from ignorant/brainwashed girls, what else can you cite as your reasoning to have your kids' penises sliced up?

Originally posted by RogerT3
Complete trust in authority (St. Judes hospital do it so it must be good) coupled with either an inability to absorb facts or a lack of desire to self educate. Movie-type race generalizations and the most incredibly arrogant assertion that your butchered children can thank you later for their loss of body parts, sensitivity and sexual pleasure.

I know you thought you were doing your best at the time, but given the amount of information available in this thread alone, have you ever considered you might have been misled?

Complete trust in authority? Clearly you know very little about me. When I made the decision to have it done, there was no one there to pressure me or mislead me as you put it. Ok, so there was pressure to have it done before they reach a few weeks old, I hadn't actually thought about it before they handed me the forms. But I would probably make the same decision again for cultural reasons. My husband didn't think it was such a terrible idea either because he didn't stop it.

The topic is controversial, there is no doubt about that. So you'll have people who are in agreement and disagreement. In stating my opinion, it wasn't because I was hoping to get jumped on for having one. Less sexual pleasure? Guys without foreskins seem to have plenty, how can they miss what they don't know. What about our sexual pleasure?

BTW have you ever seen labia on a newborn girl? Its not like the snip of a newborn foreskin. Its more like, snip snip snip snip snip snip and sew it up.

So I looked around and there is evidence that circumsicion is beneficial for more than just cultural reasons:

Snip Snip? STD Preventing Circumcisions Way Down Says CDC Sept 2011

"The publication of three recent studies showing that circumcision of adult, heterosexual men reduces their risk for acquiring human immunodeficiency virus infection and other sexually transmitted infections has stimulated interest in the practice of routine newborn male circumcision."

Women who have sex with uncircumcised men appear to be at higher risk of cervical cancer. And a lack of circumcision has been linked to the spread of human papillomavirus (HPV) infection. HPV can cause cervical cancer.

Edited to add that this doc says there are lots of benefits also:
The Benefits of Male Circumcision

Originally posted by Cytra
So I looked around and there is evidence that circumsicion is beneficial for more than just cultural reasons:

Snip Snip? STD Preventing Circumcisions Way Down Says CDC Sept 2011

"The publication of three recent studies showing that circumcision of adult, heterosexual men reduces their risk for acquiring human immunodeficiency virus infection and other sexually transmitted infections has stimulated interest in the practice of routine newborn male circumcision."

Women who have sex with uncircumcised men appear to be at higher risk of cervical cancer. And a lack of circumcision has been linked to the spread of human papillomavirus (HPV) infection. HPV can cause cervical cancer.

Edited to add that this doc says there are lots of benefits also:
The Benefits of Male Circumcision

edit on 29-6-2012 by Cytra because: (no reason given)

Now compare your std rates with those that use a condom = post fail.

Cytra, would you read the damn thread before posting? You put no research at all into circumcision before circumcising your own kids. I guess I shouldn't expect too much from you in a thread.

Seriously, if it were that terrible would they still be doing in today at the st. Judes childrens hospital?

If GMOs are so horrible would they still be putting them into our food supply!? HOW SILLY OF ME!!!! I forgot we can completely trust other people to take care of and respect our bodies. lol...you think a hospital cares about your son's bodies.....lol....i'm sorry......

Originally posted by Cytra
So I looked around and there is evidence that circumsicion is beneficial for more than just cultural reasons:

Snip Snip? STD Preventing Circumcisions Way Down Says CDC Sept 2011

"The publication of three recent studies showing that circumcision of adult, heterosexual men reduces their risk for acquiring human immunodeficiency virus infection and other sexually transmitted infections has stimulated interest in the practice of routine newborn male circumcision."

Women who have sex with uncircumcised men appear to be at higher risk of cervical cancer. And a lack of circumcision has been linked to the spread of human papillomavirus (HPV) infection. HPV can cause cervical cancer.

Edited to add that this doc says there are lots of benefits also:
The Benefits of Male Circumcision

edit on 29-6-2012 by Cytra because: (no reason given)

All this evidence has been debunked. Go back to page 1 and start over...I'm sorry that you didn't put the research in prior to having it done. It doesnt' make you a bad mother. Just a misinformed one. you yourself said you made the decision on the fly after the forms were handed to you. There's gotta be someone to break to vicious cycle - and that person can be you in your family. There are no cleanliness issues, I "go down" on my husband and have never had anything digusting ooze out - or any awful smell to be concerned with. He's never had issues with infection.

Sounds to me like american men in general are pretty nasty, leaving the uncirced guys to take the blame. Maybe instead of cutting off body parts in the hospital to deal with this epidemic they should send you home with bags of soap and a washcloth. (or maybe the women in this thread need to be a little more choosy about the men they hook up with)

reply to post by Cytra


Wow.... you are example of a

Read First Page > Post Reply

Perfect example of western women conditioning of male sexuality.

If you read the thread, THERE was LARGE discussion from PRO and ANTI - circum crowds, and it was clearly debunked it has nothing to do with hygiene, disease. In the end it came down to COSMETIC...("father's father had it,father had it, so i guess its okay for me to have it" mentality).

Many of the posters posted the benefit of foreskin, and there is NO benefit from removing other than peer pressure/sexual partner pressure(who is probably conditioned by the media). No parents want to admit what they did to their child was bad... but you been brought up like that... but the kids will not now their full potential what nature given them since you took it out without consent.

Make sure they don't find out foreskin and keep telling them its a tiny bit of skin(it does grow when you adults with lots of nerves fyi).

reply to post by Cytra


I bet you are all for women's rights to chose what happens to their bodies? What about your son's right to choose? Just because he is male and you think it would look better mutilated doesn't mean he has no rights. As far as your comment about trimming the bush, well that doesnt cause any pain does it, and no one is forcing you. An infant is helpless, and jsut because he cannot say" that hurts" doesn't make the pain any less real. Whether or not he remembers is irrelevant since a child would tend to mentally block a traumatic memory like that. Males have rights too, let him choose when he is old enough to.

i completely agree with this, its a shame other countries dont follow their lead. female circumsition (the removal of the labia and the clitorous) has been made illegal in most countries and it is a religous practice in many places in africa......

i think religous rights are riduculous anyway.
why should someone get away with mutilating a child on religous grounds, if i got my 2 year old a nose job id be put in prison.
why should someone be able to hide their identity (under a burka) because of thier of religion, if i go into my local shoping centre wearing a hoody i get followed by security, but a women hiding all but her eyes is ok.
why would a doctor have to refuse a child a blood transfusion that could save their life simply because its against the parents religion (jahovahs witness').

religous rights have no place in a civilised world

reply to post by DaveNorris


um, the german law states that circumcisions are no longer allowed, unless it is for medical reasons.

nothing to do with women, from what I understand.

Please note that it's ok to have your child circumcised in Germany, provided a doctor says it should be done. They see no harm in it, unless, of course, it is part of a muslim, or jewish, tradition.

then it's outlawed.


pointless law. Jews and muslims will still have the procedure, either in secret, or they will first get a jewish or muslim doctor to say it's a necessity. Since it will be near impossible to police this law, it begs the question - why bother? As pointed out, there's an rapidly growing jewish population in berlin, there's a very large muslim population in germany as well. How best to slow, or halt, the growth of this population? Since wholesale slaughtering of a people has proven to be a bad idea in Germany, they seem to be taking a more crafty approach. Tell the jews and muslims they are welcome to live here but, if they plan on having a family, they should only have girls because the boys can't be circumcised here.

I think this is pretty stupid. Where do you draw the line here? Are they going to outlaw religions because that is considered mentally abusing children?

Honestly I don't care. I was circumcised as a baby, and it doesn't bother me, and I'm an atheist. Hating your parents or yourself for something like that seems pretty extreme to me. Of course, uncircumcised guys seem to be misled into thinking we don't actually feel anything during sex, which might account for one reason why so many people are for making it illegal.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by DaveNorris

 

um, the german law states that circumcisions are no longer allowed, unless it is for medical reasons.

nothing to do with women, from what I understand.

Please note that it's ok to have your child circumcised in Germany, provided a doctor says it should be done. They see no harm in it, unless, of course, it is part of a muslim, or jewish, tradition.

then it's outlawed.


pointless law. Jews and muslims will still have the procedure, either in secret, or they will first get a jewish or muslim doctor to say it's a necessity. Since it will be near impossible to police this law, it begs the question - why bother? As pointed out, there's an rapidly growing jewish population in berlin, there's a very large muslim population in germany as well. How best to slow, or halt, the growth of this population? Since wholesale slaughtering of a people has proven to be a bad idea in Germany, they seem to be taking a more crafty approach. Tell the jews and muslims they are welcome to live here but, if they plan on having a family, they should only have girls because the boys can't be circumcised here.

What again?

No, no, no. The law prevents the pointless and unnecessary mutilation of children. It does not state that circumcision is not allowed. Any adult can choose to hack off a piece of their penis if they like, but now they are restricted from doing it to babies and permanently altering their natural form, if that is for religion or fashion.

The fact that Jews and Muslims are the main perpetrators of the act is a good lead in to a conspiracy, but the end result of this law is the prevention of child abuse, or at least making child abuse a tad more difficult than it was before the law passed.

If there is a medical condition, it's allowed, however, if I were an ignorant pro-circ parent who believes it looks prettier and increases the chance of blow jobs and I lived in Germany, I'd now have to have a little rethink.

When it comes to cutting penises on new borns, I think being forced to think about it a bit is a really good idea!

The self professed casual decision made by the lady that's been bashed by everyone since she posted is a clear demonstration of what will not be so casual in Germany anymore.

If the Jews and the Muslims have to take their barbaric practise underground, tough titties. Maybe some of the less 'blinded by dogma' Jews and Muslims will find that's all the space they need to refuse this savage practice for their own sons.

At least you made your condemnation of the procedure clear earlier, I'd assumed at first you were pro-circ!!

Originally posted by Basilis
I think this is pretty stupid. Where do you draw the line here? Are they going to outlaw religions because that is considered mentally abusing children?
.

just for muslims and jews because everything old becomes chic and, apparently, nazism is tres cool in germany these days.

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by Basilis
I think this is pretty stupid. Where do you draw the line here? Are they going to outlaw religions because that is considered mentally abusing children?
.

just for muslims and jews because everything old becomes chic and, apparently, nazism is tres cool in germany these days.

Far be it for me to disagree with you but I don't think it's gone that far to be cool again in Germany, they have very strict laws about display of any form of Nazi hate speech or ideals or symbols in society. And while this does look to us, the outsiders as an abomination against a particular sect (and heck it may very well be, if we start seeing laws pop up more and more like the Nuremberg Laws we will know for sure...)

Although remember Angela Merkel grew up in the DDR, and I don't think they ever threw off totally the shackles of the Third Reich.... According to a few friends I have in Germany they are all for this overwhelmingly (except the aforementioned two groups) kind of strange for a country that denounces everything racist..

reply to post by vkey08


by presenting this as something else, they are masking their true intentions.

Originally posted by vkey08
According to a few friends I have in Germany they are all for this overwhelmingly (except the aforementioned two groups) kind of strange for a country that denounces everything racist..

Once you throw off the bizarre conditioning that circumcision is normal and ok, there is nothing strange about an intelligent population that is far less conditioned in this particular subject, expressing their distaste for child abuse.

Come on you guys, just try it on, take a peak at the other side.