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Scientists at CERN might be on the verge confirming the existence of what they call the "Higgs boson", according to rumors circulating this week. Higgs, they believe, is a particle, or set of particles, that might give others mass.
According to Columbia University mathematician, Peter Woit, "CERN will soon have to decide how to spin this: will they announce discovery of the Higgs, or will they wait for some overwhelmingly convincing standard to be met, such as 5 sigma in at least one channel of one experiment? The bottom line though is now clear: there’s something there which looks like a Higgs is supposed to look. Attention will soon move to seeing if this signal is exactly what the SM [Standard Model] predicts (e.g. will the excesses in different channels agree with SM predictions?)."
If they don't actually find something or make-up something, well I guess CERN is going to be the pink elephant in the room.
Originally posted by Xeven
Ok lets say they find the Higs and prove it exists. How will they use this knowledge to repay society for the cost of building the billion dollar toy?
Originally posted by BagBing
If they don't actually find something or make-up something, well I guess CERN is going to be the pink elephant in the room.
Far from it. Not finding the Higgs is just as important as actually finding it.
Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Originally posted by BagBing
If they don't actually find something or make-up something, well I guess CERN is going to be the pink elephant in the room.
Far from it. Not finding the Higgs is just as important as actually finding it.
Give me 10 billion dollars and I'll sign a letter saying I didn't find the Higgs Boson, mmmm, 'k. Joking aside, yes, if they don't find the Higgs, that is important as it may create modifications to the standard model so that other predictions can be tested. However, the price tag is incredibly high and it is literally impossible to prove a negative. Therefore a non-answer is not an answer, as not finding the Higgs could be the result of programming/operator error, sensor error, array placement error, magnetic containment error, etc.
Cheers - Dave
If physicists confirm that the Higgs boson exists, the discovery would also confirm that the Higgs mechanism for particles to acquire mass is correct. And, it may offer clues to the next mystery down the line, which is why individual particles have the masses that they do.
The Standard Model is the reigning theory of particle physics that describes the universe's very small constituents. Every particle predicted by the Standard Model has been discovered — except one: the Higgs boson. "It's the missing piece in the Standard Model," said Jonas Strandberg, a researcher at CERN working on the ATLAS experiment. "So it would definitely be a confirmation that the theories we have now are right. If we don't [find the Higgs] it means we made some assumptions that are wrong, and we have to go back to the drawing board."
Supersymmetry is attractive because it could help unify some of the other forces of nature, and even offers a candidate for the particle that makes up dark matter. Depending on the actual mass of the Higgs boson, it could lend credence to supersymmetry, or cast doubt on the theory.
What they are seeing is exactly what they were looking for (with the interesting caveat that the production rate may be higher than expected, but that calculation is hard).
So, either this is the Higgs, or if it’s something different, you have to explain why it is doing precisely what the Higgs was supposed to do. Anyway, the big effort from now on will be trying to more precisely measure the properties of this signal to compare to the SM prediction.
Nobody who has seen the new data is talking, except to say not to believe the blogs, where a rumor of an enhanced signal has ricocheted around, and to warn that even if the signal is real, it may require much more data and analysis to establish that it actually acts like the Higgs boson and not an impostor.
“Please do not believe the blogs,” Fabiola Gianotti, the spokeswoman for the team known as Atlas, after its huge detector, pleaded in an e-mail.
Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Originally posted by BagBing
If they don't actually find something or make-up something, well I guess CERN is going to be the pink elephant in the room.
Far from it. Not finding the Higgs is just as important as actually finding it.
Give me 10 billion dollars and I'll sign a letter saying I didn't find the Higgs Boson, mmmm, 'k. Joking aside, yes, if they don't find the Higgs, that is important as it may create modifications to the standard model so that other predictions can be tested. However, the price tag is incredibly high and it is literally impossible to prove a negative. Therefore a non-answer is not an answer, as not finding the Higgs could be the result of programming/operator error, sensor error, array placement error, magnetic containment error, etc.
Cheers - Dave
All you show is that you don't understand any of this. They are testing the theory, and have already ruled out a large range of places the Higgs could be hiding. If it is not find in the last of the ranges to be tested more scientists will pour through the information, and if no one can find any error, many will move on and make new predictions. Not finding the Higgs is just as important as finding it. You writing something meaningless is just that.
Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Originally posted by BagBing
If they don't actually find something or make-up something, well I guess CERN is going to be the pink elephant in the room.
Far from it. Not finding the Higgs is just as important as actually finding it.
Give me 10 billion dollars and I'll sign a letter saying I didn't find the Higgs Boson, mmmm, 'k. Joking aside, yes, if they don't find the Higgs, that is important as it may create modifications to the standard model so that other predictions can be tested. However, the price tag is incredibly high and it is literally impossible to prove a negative. Therefore a non-answer is not an answer, as not finding the Higgs could be the result of programming/operator error, sensor error, array placement error, magnetic containment error, etc.
Cheers - Dave
All you show is that you don't understand any of this. They are testing the theory, and have already ruled out a large range of places the Higgs could be hiding. If it is not find in the last of the ranges to be tested more scientists will pour through the information, and if no one can find any error, many will move on and make new predictions. Not finding the Higgs is just as important as finding it. You writing something meaningless is just that.
After designing particle accelerators, ring laser systems, adiabatic reactors and a number of other devices that use the practical application of physics, I think I do know where I am coming from ;-) But everyone has a right to their opinion.
Cheers - Dave