It Is Time To Police The Internet.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Except people who commit crimes on the Internet are caught all the time, meaning that the Internet is already policed. Also, crimes happen all the time in the real world and nobody gets caught.

Well then that shows the internet is already being policed, In this thread I would argue that it would be better to have a national or indeed international dedicated cybercrime forces.

When will people like you ever learn that more government, more surveillance is not the answer. Leave our freedoms alone. If you want to live in a surveillance society, get yourself sent to prison or something. Leave the rest of us alone.

Wait

What did you say????

If you want to live in a surveillance society, get yourself sent to prison or something.

The prison is on the outside already....

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I disagree entirely. The internet can be the perfect home for the expression of freedom of speech. If you don't like what you are reading, look at something else. Pretty simple really.......

To the OP:

I don't know you, as I'm a noob here on ATS, but I did police some of your recent comments and find them rather revealing. I noticed most of your posts were subtly antagonistic, overtly humorless and demonstratively passive/aggressive. Interesting choice of topics for threads you commented in too. While I would never advocate volcano justice for anyone, even an apparent paid troll, I would like to know who you work for Hahaha.

EVERYTHING on the internet is speech. Therefore no law should or can be made to regulate it. At least not one that could possibly be constitutional.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I knew that few would agree with me on this thread

As far as I can tell NO-ONE agreed with you.

Your idea is idiotic the internet is already policed, but I guess you want total locked down?
NO logging onto a PC unless its equipped with a thumb scanner? All identities must be 100% verifiable before the PC unlocks?

You talk about 14 year olds in nigeria scamming people, no matter how well the internet is policed
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SCAMMERS, JUST LIKE THE REAL WORLD.

You are living in a fantasy land if you think all crimes commited in the real world go punished.

Criminals in the real world simply dont walk into a store and announce that they are stealing something (mostly), but I guess in your dumb idealistic world criminals would be forced to walk around with devices that announce they have committed past crimes?

Originally posted by Viking9019
The internet has been a curse from day one in my opinion.Its time to do something about the it and remember,you have no right to be on the internet because it was given to you by others in the first place.

House ownership is also a curse. Do you know how many crimes are committed daily in peoples homes? And remember you have no right to own a home, because it was given to you by others in the first place.

Car driving has been a curse from day one. It's time something was done................

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I couldnt disagree more with you

Internet is a way to get information or send information anonymously. At the base of internet, that is what its for.

On the other hand you can put a name on your internet use, when you post in forums, blogs, social networks etc.

Internet is just a free anonymous library.

What happen when you remove the favorite toy of a newborn child? he cry

what do you think if you change, alter or remove internet as it is right now to the population.... revolt...

sorry but internet cant change...

people need to stop being terribad with computers and learn how to not get infected...


Oh this anonymous person sent me a picture of hot chicks

*click on hotchickforfree.exe*

where are the boobs???

seriously...

I dont think internet should adapt to people, because internet as always been like this, people need to adapt to internet. I have access to internet since i am 7 years old and never had any problems, i am 30 now.

and before internet there was modem communication

and BBS (bulletin boards), the forum ancestors...

on my super fast 2.4kbs external modem!!

when it took 15 minutes or more to load a very simple webpage...

when you could browse internet and there was no image on DOS.

or use secure operating systems like OSX or Linux.

Windows is the worst thing the mainstream computer users can get and they still buy it...

internet isnt the problem, but hte people is.

Policing the internet is the wrong approach. Think about the amount of power you would be giving to an entity (the governments of the world) to remove things that they deem as wrong or criminal. once you start policing it will never stop, the level of policing will only creep into more and more things on the internet.

www.cnn.com...

This story is a good example of what police are worried about on the internet.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin



I could understand the internet being "policed" in situations that have to do with child-abuse and the like, but anything past serious offenses would be intrusive in my opinion. I like that I can freely express my thoughts on websites such as ATS and not necessarily have everybody in the world know, but hey what do I know? lol

reply to post by J34NF1C0


A lot of communities on the net police themselves as far as that goes, and the net as an entity in itself sometimes through memes. Look at the guy who killed those kittens in a vacuum bag, they sure as hell found that sob.

Problem is once you hand out the authority to do something like that, it won't stop there.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


You are voicing your opinion, free speech grants you that. It does not force others to agree with you. As you stated, the thread was made to encourage debate, that's what is happening.

I would really like to understand your reasoning beyond what you stated in the original post. I don't mean this as an insult, but I viewed your reasons for policing the internet as being uninformed/out of touch, and therefore not really valid. I think that's how a lot of others may have viewed them too. To me, the fact that there are already laws in place that allow the proper authorities to handle such matters voids your entire argument.

I would like to know how you would justify greater powers even though the necessary powers are already in place.

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

You are voicing your opinion, free speech grants you that. It does not force others to agree with you. As you stated, the thread was made to encourage debate, that's what is happening.

I would really like to understand your reasoning beyond what you stated in the original post. I don't mean this as an insult, but I viewed your reasons for policing the internet as being uninformed/out of touch, and therefore not really valid. I think that's how a lot of others may have viewed them too. To me, the fact that there are already laws in place that allow the proper authorities to handle such matters voids your entire argument.

I would like to know how you would justify greater powers even though the necessary powers are already in place.

I realize this question isn't for me, but I would like to comment, if I may.

If the necessary powers are already in place thats great. But why is there not more serious crime stopped?

I'm not talking downloading songs or movies, but people who are hacking into accounts, and stealing large amounts of money from corporations and individuals,those who are planning to kill others using terrorist type tactics, as well as the underground seedy side, like the guy from Montreal, concerning the body parts.

Supposedly peta was tracking this guy for two years, trying to catch him..yet the police couldn't find him?

Makes one wonder if they have the resources, or there are some corrupt sic individuals within the ranks who let certain things keep happening., and I hope with all my heart its because of resources, and maybe lack of skilled individuals.

I realize I am not too knowledgeable about computers and the net to know whether more policing will help, or hurt, or what is the best way to get the serious crimes stopped.

I just want sic twisted individuals that get away with way more than they should caught..and soon..not after years of damage has been done.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


They are doing it....in China. Go there if that's what you want. Great Firewall of China.

No problem, happy to answer still. And again, this sincerely isn't meant to be insulting in any way, but politicians who don't know much about computers like you are the ones who end up trying to get all sorts of overreaching bills passed that do more harm than good. At the very least, they know just enough to play on other uninformed peoples fears and get their support, much to the glee of whoever is lining their pockets. And then the general public, who also don't know that much about these issues, feel safer because they are now protected from a danger that never existed in the first place.

Who's to say there isn't a lot of crime being stopped? The nature of the crimes are rarely serious enough to warrant any kind of media attention. Someone who got scammed out of 300 dollars on eBay isn't going to make the NBC Nightly News, and it rarely involves the authorities. If someone makes a fraudulent charge on my credit card, I call the card issuer and tell them to cancel my card and send me a new one, and that's the end of it.

I've never really heard of any big cases where a corporation has had money stolen. I mean, some hacker isn't going to get into a bank account owned by Walmart and steal millions of dollars, it just doesn't happen. Like I said in the earlier post, people have this wild view of hackers thanks to Hollywood. A computer isn't some magical thing that can take planes out of the sky or shut down a power grid.

Most computer crime involving money comes from a technique called phishing, where a person will send an e-mail pretending to be eBay, Paypal, a credit card company, or the persons bank, and they will say they need you to sign in and update your account information. They will then give you a link to click that takes you to a site that looks a lot like paypal, or ebay, or where ever, and then when you enter your username and password, it logs it, allowing them to retrieve the information, sign into your account, and make purchases, transfer money, etc. This is big overseas, and the authorities here really can't do all that much to stop it. And no powers they get will change that. The best thing to do is just make people aware, which most sites do these days, by telling people to never enter their account information anywhere except the official site. And when in doubt, exit out of the browser, and type in the proper URL. These days people are usually protected by their bank and credit card company so they aren't responsible for fraudulent purchases, so it's really no big deal.

Regarding the terrorists, again I don't know where this fear comes from. The internet is a method of communication. If one of their chat rooms get shut down, another will pop up. And they would have to be pretty dumb to post their plans publicly. What happens is they meet like minded individuals, speak privately, and then plan privately. The best thing for law enforcement to do is monitor them, infiltrate them, and learn what they can to prevent the attacks. No powers that they are given will ever make the job easier. People will still use proxy servers to mask their location, people will still sign in from internet cafes. There's no magic computer button to help you find them. Plus, I imagine they want to keep a great deal of their busts hush hush so that it doesn't alert other communities. I doubt that we even hear about a percentage of the people they take out. They just report one every once in a while to remind us to be afraid.

I heard on the news a while back that they took down a huge pedophile community and made a ton of arrests. It was the result of a big investigation and a lot of time and effort. Again, there's no magic button to make the investigation easier. They did it the right way and got those sickos off the streets.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that having more power over the internet isn't going to make solving crime easier for them, it's as easy as it's going to get for right now. If they truly want to find someone, they still have to track them through the various proxy servers they use, they still have to investigate. The kind of powers being proposed basically equate to mass censorship. And I may just be missing it, but I sure don't hear a lot of law enforcement personnel asking for these powers. It seems like every time I watch Dateline or 20/20 the cops are busting someone with their existing techniques. Those in power in media/government/business want control. Is there an article that Sony/Fox/NBC/FDA/Congress/FBI/CIA/whoever doesn't like posted on your website? Now they have to contact you, ask you to take it down, get lawyers involved, blah blah blah. If they had the kind of power they want, they wouldn't even have to ask. They could just shut you down. Not just remove the page, but shut down your whole site, seize your domain name, the whole nine yards. Ton's of ways to abuse it, it's not in our best interests.

Originally posted by Pixiefyre

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

There are many crimes against children on the net, that don't involve what you are talking about. Children can get swiped off the street walking to a friends house, and end up in some basement dungeon used as "entertainment" for certain groups of people on the internet who get off on watching children suffer. Or they can be be abused or manipulated into sex in situations while being filmed, and then it is shared with others online.

The situation you are describing is not exactly an internet relate issue, there is no way someone can reach through the internet and swipe a kid off the street. Regarding distributing images of against a child that an abuser has kidnapped off the street, before the internet existed the same crimes occurred, the criminals discovered each other through personal ad's in magazines or alternative news prints and mailed video tapes to each other to share.

??? The internet has increased these types of crimes to an incredulous amount, and from what I have been told, these people learn to fly under the radar very well, using others computers remotely, using other ISP's, and whatever other methods they know how.

How do you figure it has "increased" them? All it's done is made access to it easier for those who would choose to look. There's just as many sickos now as there were before the internet. It's just a distribution method. The language you use illustrates the problem very well. "From what I've been told". Who is telling you this? Are they well informed regarding internet technology, or are they just repeating something they were told as well? You can see what a slippery slope it is. Proxy servers and darknets, that's all it is, both make it incredibly difficult to track them, and NEITHER of those problems will be solved by the kind of powers they want granted. Policing the internet doesn't put a dent in either of those technologies. All the methods the authorities need to track them are ALREADY available to them. If anything, the internet has made it easier, because it lulls them into a false sense of security. The authorities monitor and infiltrate the communities, they track them, and eventually take them down.

Tell me, what does your version of policing the internet involve? Like I said, there is no magic button that makes the investigation easier. Forgive me if this sounds confrontational, it isn't meant to. I know that I know very little about the technical side of internet technology, and very little about the specific methods that the authorities use, but I have a feeling you know even less, yet are willing to hand over all sorts of powers to protect from problems that you have been told already have solutions that work, and that there's very little that can be done to improve upon those methods. The problem is that people react like that on a huge level every time they hear buzzwords regarding children or terrorists.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


It is time for ATS to deny the hive mind and expunge threads like this.

They do not serve a tangible purpose other than to perpetuate the very same hive mind that enslaves us.

I'm sick and tired of authoritarian control freaks trying to control everything to make themselves feel safe.

Now I want to watch Demolition Man.

This thread lacks common sense in almost every way....Those who become complacent and give up their freedoms for security, deserve to have neither...

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


This is asinine. O, let me count the ways:

- Downloading a movie from the internet is not "stealing from a shop". In a shop there is a lot of labor wrapped up in the product (packaging, shipping, logistics, etc). If the media does not want me to download their items, then they need to stop inundating me with it. How can you copyright a tree? The Nike label is so pervasive, so existant in my world that it is part of the landscape. Like a tree, I see seas of trees the landscape is littered with their images that they want to copyright. No, I say that if they want to protect their "intellectual property", they should find new ways to conduct business that accounts for the technolgoy of today WITHOUT stifling it. Their intellectual property rights shoudl never trump the right of the rest of us to continue finding new ways to utilize technology, and continue developing our culture. We should not allow "copyright" to be the banner that holds us in shackles. If that is the goal of media, they can take it and shove it up their keister.

- If i abused my neighbors it would involve physical abuse, or they would have little recourse. I have seen "outsiders" harassed into just leaving more than once. It is a shame that humans treat each other this way, but we all have the right to protect ourselves with thicker skin, our fists, or by just walking away. I am offended that you would suggest that I need someone to protect me, and I will not accept that other humans can be weaker than me. If you see your children harassed online, get them off. It is that simple. We don't need police to do the job of parents.

- if child porn is put up, there are methods that can be used to identify where it came from. No, it doesn't always work. But there will never, ever be a way to stop it no matter how much you "police" anything. One thing that all our history should teach us is that when humans want to partake in any vice, there is nothing that is going to stop it entirely. So all we really have is prevention programs with kids, and enforcement of the sick bastards who victimize them.

- bullying...another abomination of human behavior. But, as i stated above, it is the parents job to stay involved with their kids and protect them. The police are a piss poor substitute for a parent, and should not be legally required to fill that void.

- fraud. If someone is stupid enough to give away access to a Nigerian uncle, they get what they get. They likely don't have much to lose anyway, as the stupid generally tend to not collect much. My mom had one of these calls just today. Being a senior citizen, they saw her as an easy mark and were quite insistent. But she isn't stupid, and was not a victim. As it relates to hacking financial institutions, or i would say it is the job of the institutions to help find a way to protect themselves without infringing on our right to pursuing further technological capability. As it relates to ebay, this is a matter of using the methods available to protect yourself. I have had Paypal reimburse me before on a fraudulent transaction. The process was quick and easy, too. The seller had been around for over 10000 transactions and was at like 98%, so it wasn't like I shouldn't have had faith, right? If you don't protect yourself using what is already available, why should the rest of us have rights stripped to compensate for you?

- The NSA already sniffs everything the internet has to say. What else do you want to prevent "terrorists"? The raping i have recevied from the Patriot Act isn't enough?

ETA: the child porn thing really pisses me off. Why are child sex offenders ever released from prison? Let the potheads out and keep the perverts for life. Then you at least are removing the problem from society. No, it may not deter anyone else, but that isn't how you deter people anyway. What it will do is remove them so we don't have to deal with them any more. THAT should be done before I ever give up any kind of rights.