It Is Time To Police The Internet.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


You're a lot kinder to the OP than I was, BFFT.

I know what you're thinking. I've been thinking the same thing ever since I got here. Why, oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
-- Cypher, The Matrix

reply to post by petrus4


Yeah. This seems more like a troll throwing out some flame bait.

This is what the OP's request would result in more of.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

- bullying...another abomination of human behavior. But, as i stated above, it is the parents job to stay involved with their kids and protect them. The police are a piss poor substitute for a parent, and should not be legally required to fill that void.

Many forms of bullying, parents have little control over....as well as it isn't always about the children. I guess you're ok with someone who has a bone to pick with your wife, or daughter, and puts up a pick of her on some sleazy website, that sells sexual services? Of course if you had been doing your job as a parent, you'd have made sure some ex boyfriend of your daughters wouldn't be allowed to bully her that way....but.. they can't prove its him , because he has the freedom to remain anonymous and private, as well as the freedom to totally ruin her privacy.

Really getting sick of those who think parents have some kind of magic control from stopping really crappy things to happen to their kids, and maybe it will take something really crappy to happen to one of yours via the net, before you wake up to the fact that many do very destructive things, because they know they can get away with it on the net.

- fraud. If someone is stupid enough to give away access to a Nigerian uncle, they get what they get. They likely don't have much to lose anyway, as the stupid generally tend to not collect much. My mom had one of these calls just today.

Another very naive attitude about fraud. Its not just about paypal, or the preying on of the naive, vulnerable, and yes stupid. Credit card, and banking info can be stolen quite easily. Hackers can walk through your personal files online, and in some extreme cases ,have even sold the house with success right from under the owners feet. After long hard struggles, and lawsuits, the bank may compensate them. Its too easy to impersonate anyone signing up for programs , benefits, etc.

We're not talking some phone scam aimed at the vulnerable here, we are talking stolen information , because too many hackers who are criminals have the 'keys" to your info if they want it.

thehackernews.com...

I'm disappointed that you would downplay the dangers and intrusion into privacy that anonymity on the net has produced. It is that type of anonymity, and skills in knowing how to hide online activity, that may very well produce the naked shots of your daughter or wife , which is very intrusive to her privacy, all because someone knew how to remotely turn it on, and quite enjoyed the anonymity of totally disrespecting her privacy as she was undressing.

yup..many (not all)..who scream for the rights of privacy, are the ones who have absolutely none for the rights of others privacy, and they want to make sure they keep that freedom of not having to be accountable.

Not saying this is you, but.. I really don't appreciate how you come across, and downplay what can really happen online. Quite frankly even parents who won't allow pc's in their homes are vulnerable to the intrusions of privacy and criminal intent towards their children, via the exposure on the internet.

By the way, if you should ever come up with some brilliant idea that you decide to market and sell through dvd online, I hope you don't complain if you sell 1000 and 10, 000,000 copies are downloaded illegally through file sharing. After all, no trees died for those copies.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I knew that few would agree with me on this thread I am not expecting the masses of ATS to rally to my call. I just think that it might make for interesting debate.

I ask those who disagree with me what they think should be done with the issues I have raised in this thread how should we prevent crime in the internet?

I am not talking about taking away freedom of speech on the internet, I am talking about policing the internet to take away the ability of criminals to use the internet for their evil deeds.

Criminals/terrorists talk when they plan and commit crime – BAN TALKING.
Criminals/terrorists use cameras when they plan and commit crime – BAN CAMERAS.
Criminals/terrorists use cars when they plan and commit crime – BAN CARS.
Criminals/terrorists use postal systems when they plan and commit crime – BAN THE POSTAL SYSTEM.
Criminals/terrorists use their hands when they plan and commit crime – CUT OFF EVERYONE’S HANDS.

I could go on and on and on.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


It is unfortunate that people make bad decisions like allowing themselves to be photographed naked. I have been married 18 years, and we have neither one done that. To think that we should shield our children from their bad decisions, instead of allowing them to learn from them (no matter how painful it may be) is a major fault in our society. And is likely part of the cause of why childrens behavior is less than it used to be. And likely is part of what drives bullying.

Why would we go further down that path?

As it relates to bullying on the internet....why do you have to frequent sites where bullying happens? My son was freaking huge fat after spending 6 months in a wheelchair. It took awhile to get the weight down for both of us. In the meantime, he dealt with bullying by having a sharpened tongue, and fast fists. I, as a parent, stayed engaged and worked through it with him. You should see how close we are after that. It is amazing how actively parenting actually makes you closer with your kids, and allows you to make them better adjusted.

Bullying is a social problem. It does not have a legal answer. You cannot legislate answers to social problems, unless you are going to effect the actual cause: we are woefully disengaged with each other, especially our own children and family.

I do not think any parent can keep bad things from happening to their kids. I don't stop it from happening to my kid. I would be an idiot for doing it if i could. My kids need to learn perserverance. You do not learn that by being an over shelter wuss. You have to learn to take your lumps. Partially because the world IS a cruel place, and partially because you have to learn to conform a little to social norms early on. Being an individual is very important. It doesn't help you in the herd mentality. Yes, it sucks. But there are no laws that will change human nature. If you think there are, how is that war on drugs going?

Quit thinking that children need self esteem and nurturing. They don't. What they need are the skills required to deal with this screwed up world. They need parents as allies as they take on the monumental challenge of learning to be human, and to survive around what has shown itself to be one of the most brutal animals to ever walk the Earth.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


I failed to mention that I have created dozens of copyrightable type of things (art, job tools, etc). I think it is an abomination to claim "intellectual property rights". Everything that is in my thoughts is inspired by the world I live in. My thoughts are the result of our interactions. Yes, they should remain private to me. But the results of them, the results that are inspired by what I am thinking, that is just an actualization of the social memetic dynamic.

Like what is called "old relics". They are intellectual pieces that are often referred to as "our collective heritage". I agree with this. I also think that artistic endeavors today are much the same. A musician makes his money on concerts, on actually performing it live. If the movies want to continue making money, then they should spend more on the experience. Make it more worthwhile to be in the theater instead of at home. If technology has made it difficult for them to make money, why should technology suffer? Why should mankind be held back? Why shouldn't THEY be required to adapt?

This touches on the fact that the government should not be policing for commerce. Commerce should be reconcilable only in civil court. Meaning, they should have to find you, sue you, and win.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

It is unfortunate that people make bad decisions like allowing themselves to be photographed naked. I have been married 18 years, and we have neither one done that. To think that we should shield our children from their bad decisions, instead of allowing them to learn from them (no matter how painful it may be) is a major fault in our society. And is likely part of the cause of why childrens behavior is less than it used to be. And likely is part of what drives bullying.

good grief...again you fail to see my point.. Does someone hacking into a webcam, and some woman is changing in her room, and is unaware qualify as posing for nude pics? Does the landlord who has hidden cameras placed in his rental property, and is sharing live footage with other like minded creeps, the fault of the victim ?

Does a 16 year old girl showering after a BB game in a public school shower qualify as posing for nude pics? Do the pics that creeps photocopy to make the subject look naked, or a appear to be engaging in some sexual act qualify as being the victims fault ?

I won't bother trying to debate with you. You seem very close minded and quite ready to blame the innocent for the vengeful or hateful acts of those who act with no conscience, and are quite happy in their safe little nest of anonymity .

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

I did say national or international, like I said in the OP I am not debating how this would be done only that I think it needs to be done.

Regardless of those who disagree with me, I maintain that this is necessary.

"Doing it" destroys the freedom that the internet provides for the majority that use it legally and legitimately. As with everything in free speech and press, you have to accept the bad to preserve the good,

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds


good grief...again you fail to see my point.. Does someone hacking into a webcam, and some woman is changing in her room, and is unaware qualify as posing for nude pics?

No, that is called "stupidity". I am smart enough to cover my webcams with tape. Why should someone else's lack of insight mean that I have to have yet MORE laws to live under?

Does the landlord who has hidden cameras placed in his rental property, and is sharing live footage with other like minded creeps, the fault of the victim ?

No, he is a criminal. How does policing the internet stop this?

Does a 16 year old girl showering after a BB game in a public school shower qualify as posing for nude pics?

Once again, how does this get stopped by policing the internet?

Do the pics that creeps photocopy to make the subject look naked, or a appear to be engaging in some sexual act qualify as being the victims fault ?

How will policing the internet stop what is, in essence, very tacky art?

I won't bother trying to debate with you. You seem very close minded and quite ready to blame the innocent for the vengeful or hateful acts of those who act with no conscience, and are quite happy in their safe little nest of anonymity .

No, i am not closed minded. That is an excuse used by people with an argument too weak to cause change in someone else's viewpoint. Don't blame me for your weak argument. What you propose is to police the internet for events that happen regardless of the internet, or to police the internet so that stupid people don't have to stop being stupid.

Unfortunate things happen to people. However, there are already laws in place to address these. Use them instead of making more.

I think you have a weak argument, and I'm not saying that certain type of policing will stop these crimes.

What I would like to see is an easier way to track them, so they can be brought to justice.

We have cars with licenses and registration, and people need to have valid ID to drive them.

Considering the amount of damage and crime that happens on the net, why shouldn't people have to prove that they are using them within the law.

lemme ask you, what are you so afraid of?

You all bent out of shape cause you won't get free music and movies.. maybe free porn..?

aww shucks.. isn't that so sad.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds


lemme ask you, what are you so afraid of?

This, my friend, is what is known as the "begs the question" informal fallacy. I am not afraid of anything, other than the tyranny you are recommending.

The seas of liberty are rough indeed. Let's not cower in the face of them.

As for all the 'hackers', very few people can do anything to your computer unless you've downloaded something, or gone to a bad site. Most of the stealing of passwords etc, involves keyloggers, and RATS, or Remote Administration Tools. Think of it as a teamviewer that they can turn on at anytime and take control of your computer. If you aren't capable of keeping your information safe, then that burden is on you. Learn to use Virtual Machines....

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
You all bent out of shape cause you won't get free music and movies.. maybe free porn..?

aww shucks.. isn't that so sad.

So you've never utilised the Internet yourself in the persuit of such? You either have an exceptionally boring existence, or you are a liar and a hypocrite.

I, of course, have a private opinion about which of these two possibilities is likely to be the more accurate, but I will refrain from publically expressing it, in order to permit you to save face.

reply to post by petrus4


Jesus, I am a 40 year old man with 2 grown kids that has been married almost 20 years. There isn't anything in porn left for me. You don't keep a happy marriage that long by not being creative.

Why is that poster trying to use a straw man? Employing a giggle factor accusation to help shout down the people with a differing opinion. It is part and parcel of the general group of folks who would want to police the internet to begin with.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by petrus4

 

Jesus, I am a 40 year old man with 2 grown kids that has been married almost 20 years. There isn't anything in porn left for me. You don't keep a happy marriage that long by not being creative.

So I guess the monkey suit isn't just in your avatar, eh?

The staple material is somehow the most gratifying, anyway. Sure, they come up with all kinds of cheap gimmicks in order to try and make things more interesting, but watching Carmella Bing fulfill her divine calling in life with an equally prodigious male specimen, in purely meat and potatoes terms, far more effectively gets the desired result from me, every time.

Why is that poster trying to use a straw man? Employing a giggle factor accusation to help shout down the people with a differing opinion. It is part and parcel of the general group of folks who would want to police the internet to begin with.

I suspect it's because deep down, he's aware that he doesn't actually have a legitimate argument.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
You all bent out of shape cause you won't get free music and movies.. maybe free porn..?

aww shucks.. isn't that so sad.

So you've never utilised the Internet yourself in the persuit of such? You either have an exceptionally boring existence, or you are a liar and a hypocrite.

I, of course, have a private opinion about which of these two possibilities is likely to be the more accurate, but I will refrain from publically expressing it, in order to permit you to save face.

edit on 1-7-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

I don't need to save face, because I don't care if I save face. I'm a self proclaimed idiot at times (ok..maybe most of the time) , and I'm not pretending to be something I am not.

But for the record I don't utilize the internet to access porn, or free movies or music . If that makes me boring ..so be it. Besides why would I pay for porn or steal it , or even access it online when I can create it much better in my own imagination..if so inclined.

Was simply wondering why some get so rattled over more policing of the internet ?

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Was simply wondering why some get so rattled over more policing of the internet ?

Did you watch the video I linked earlier in the thread? That might offer you some insight.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Was simply wondering why some get so rattled over more policing of the internet ?

Did you watch the video I linked earlier in the thread? That might offer you some insight.

It was a very interesting and insightful video, but it seems to me that the problem is with private prisons, and prisoners for profit.

What you are seeming to suggest is that we need to let crime go unaccounted for, so these profit mongrels don't use the system to make money., but perhaps I am misunderstanding what type of policing you are referring to, and perhaps self policing is the answer. I can see where many would differ on what is considered criminal though, and that can lead to a whole new set of problems.

I simply want the serious cyber criminals to not have such an "easy" road and "access" to some of the crimes they partake in and organize, and to be accountable , as well as some of the vengeful little creeps who make life hell for others to stop. (downloading music and movies doesn't even factor in the type of crime I'm concerned about)

The whole justice system needs to be reviewed, as to what should even consist of prison time , and prison systems should be none profit.

I do see the big picture you speak of though, and its a sad world when millions are doing time and being slave labor for things like smoking crack, while some who are profiting off of the prison system are snorting coke , or doing their heroin at their sicco orgies with children, as well as being part of the darker under belly of the net.

*sighs* God help us all.. cause we sure could use some good help ..

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
I do see the big picture you speak of though, and its a sad world when millions are doing time and being slave labor for things like smoking crack, while some who are profiting off of the prison system are snorting coke , or doing their heroin at their sicco orgies with children, as well as being part of the darker under belly of the net.

You're not going to get any disagreement from me, over the idea that paedophiles are unspeakably sick people.

However, there's a problem that perhaps you are not aware of; and that is the fact that some of the sickest people, and those who engage in the things which you revile the most, are actually the ones who hold the most power.

Twilight of the Psychopaths