reply to post by Zcustosmorum
Crap, Iraq was a lie, and what's worse, everyone knew it
When you actually look at the history and internal investigations done; Iraq was not so much a lie as it was a classic example of many intuitive
illusions that human psychology suffers from.
Confidence is intuitively used as a measure of correctness. Several in Bush's cabinet were absolutely certain and confident we'd find said weapons
of mass destruction in Iraq. The reality is a little more stark.
If he did have those weapons - they went to Syria; eye-witness reports on the ground as well as aerial photographs of convoys leaving the country
before the ultimatum expired exist.
There are also U.N. weapon inspector testimonies of being disallowed to enter various palaces and/or buildings while trucks and/or helicopters
departed out the back... to be let in afterward to see a number of oddly empty rooms. There were also the many buildings we found after invading that
were recently stripped of machinery and chemical stocks.
Exactly what was there before can only be guessed at (perhaps there were factories producing something that Saddam didn't want to be in our hands -
not necessarily a WMD - but perhaps something he thought could be interpreted as a WMD). It's also possible Saddam was no longer in control of his
party, and a number of projects were going on 'under the table' - without his knowledge and outside the scope of various analysts' conclusions on
Afghanistan is a nightmare and even the reasoning for that war is questionable.
Most of the nightmare is our own creation. The military is hit pretty hard by the good idea fairies in congress and the president's cabinets (as
well as star-wearing officers who want to be able to say they created some kind of program or changed the procedures to make things more effective,
cost less, or whatever whims they may have).
It also doesn't help that people are very, very impatient. You can't walk in and change an entire culture in ten years. You can't do it in twenty
South Korea is a great example. They want
to be like the U.S. in many respects. They started out friendly and open to our concepts of
government and economics - and flourished within their first twenty years (having resources for them to utilize helped that matter... something
Afghanistan is struggling with)... but they are still
not where they want to be.
Japan is the same way. They recovered more quickly because the had industry to work with and were used to conducting trade with other nations
(including us). So, when the war was over - they recovered pretty quickly. ... And our cultures are still merging (look at all the Japanese
popularity in the U.S. and the popularity of many U.S. products in Japan).
Man, you wanna kill people for your country, I bet it's gotta haunt your mind a bit, and all the time,
I don't want to "kill people for my country." If the need arises - I will kill someone to protect those around me and the ideals I believe in.
I have a different concept of death when compared to many Americans. I don't see it as an inherently bad thing. Sometimes - the simplest and most
practical means of accomplishing something is to end another person's life. The greater the goal and the smaller number of deaths required makes the
choice of killing increasingly agreeable, particularly when more publicly acceptable methods have higher rates of failure or have unacceptable
the real reasons for all these wars are never revealed, until it's way too late to do anything about.
There is no "real reason" for any war. It is always an assortment of other reasons.
Why did you decide to eat the lunch/dinner you did? It's never a single reason. It's many factors playing at one time.
It's understandable why you should think this way. Human psychology and memory is often episodic. One thing leads to another which leads to another
- all events are strung together by causal links. It makes sense we should evolve this way (Ug ate mushroom and died an hour later - eating mushroom
probably killed him); but it is often misleading in other contexts.
We try to fill in the gaps in our understanding with singular causes to satisfy our instincts. Reality is just not that simple.