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After 28 years David A Hemler tells the truth

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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After 28 years David A Hemler tells the truth


www.dn.se

In October 1984, a 21-year-old American Airman deserted and hitch-hiked from an Air Force base in Augsburg, Germany to Stockholm. He built himself a life in Sweden – never sharing his secret with anyone, while becoming one of the U.S. Air Force’s eight most wanted fugitives. Today, David A. Hemler, 49, comes forward in an exclusive interview with Dagens Nyheter (DN), Stockholm.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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I thought this might interest some of you ATS'ers. I wonder how many people in the US military feel this way today.

Does anyone know whether or not it was voluntary to join the military when this happened?

What's your view on this? Do anyone know of any modern time deserter stories?

Personally, I respect him for doing what he thought right, even though he went to quite extreme measures, but perhaps it was the only way for him to stop doing what he could not longer do.

www.dn.se
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Zyril
 

Does anyone know whether or not it was voluntary to join the military when this happened?

Yes, it was voluntary, something that started while I was in the service back in 1975.
The guy is way too young to have been in danger of being drafted.

Do anyone know of any modern time deserter stories?
Yes, a dude I worked with back in 1982, again too young of a person to have been drafted, and in the Marines, which you have to sign up for and not drafted into. He decided he wanted to have a normal life and just disappeared into the general population. His fool of a room mate decided to grow a pot plant in the creek behind the house they were living in and when the cops investigated they found out he had deserted. No one who knew him in his assumed life had any idea that he was a fugitive.
edit on 16-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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I say hang the traitor bastid!

Just kidding. Good read. I hope we don't use him as an example and actually punish him. I say let it go.

We'll see.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Damn right, respect! Why should we and people like us, die for the elites cause? Anyone in the armed forces pays the psychological price for carrying out the orders of an evil empire which care nothing for their pawns in illegal wars.

Suicide rates are rising because people are waking up to what they are doing is wrong, plain and simple



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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He was a volunteer.

The military obviously isn't for everyone, I could only tolerate the bs for four years.

There are ways of getting out without deserting or going awol.

The easiest way is to fail one of your physicals.

If any of you join and change your mind in basic training just fail your pt test. You have to run 2 miles in a certain time, do so many sit-ups and do so many push-ups. If you fail they may send you to holdover and let you try again but most times they just give you an ELS (entry level separation). No harm no foul you go your way they go theirs.

I remember in basic one guy just went and talked with the CO I don't know what he said but they discharged him. Not very common usually it's a little tougher to get out than just asking but I wouldn't go awol and I sure wouldn't desert.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by cavalryscout
 


I was in for about 2 months. I was just shy of graduating basic when I spoke to a 2nd LT. He told me to refuse to train and I would be discharged. The instructors threatened me a lot with jail time and being held for years but the LT told me they had no such power and I would be home within weeks.

So one day I told my drill sgt that I was refusing to train. He was definitely upset with me. Several other instructors from our company came over and surrounded me, threatening me and making comments to make me feel stupid but I didn't waiver. I was terrified of being put in jail but I believed the LT and he was right. I was out within two weeks, before my company graduated.

Going AWOL is definitely not something I would recommend, for obvious reasons.

And failing your PT test would get you out eventually but like you said, they would keep you for holdover which means restarting a whole new cycle. I was far too determined to get out quickly than to go to "Fat Camp."



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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If you are still in basic training, boot camp or whatever you want to call it. You can quit at any time.

They don't like anyone to know that.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by EagleTalonZ
 




That's funny dude.

Yeah they may be dicks and recycle you but one of my buddies failed and they just held him for like a month. He said all he did was work out all day. He had to work in the kitchen once in awhile and he had to 'police' certain areas a few hours a day but he said mostly he worked out and played basketball.

It's not hard to get out though.

What you don't want to do is try something crazy like attempt suicide!

We had a guy try it and the Drill said they'd keep him until they were sure he was mentally stable. Who knows how long that could be.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by cavalryscout
 

There are ways of getting out without deserting or going awol.
I know someone who was in the Air Force and even re-enlisted but two years later, told his CO he wanted out and was given an administrative discharge, pretty simple but takes guts to face your commanding officer who may be very high ranked, as in a general, who would take your request personally and see it as an affront to his (or her, in this case) ego.
edit on 16-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I'm not judging anybody.

I was saying in general during peace times going awol is a silly thing to do.

I was dating a girl about a year ago and her cousin had gone awol from the Navy. He was going to be shipped out and the guy was just scared. I felt bad for him but told him his best bet was to turn himself in. Not sure what ever happened to him I just remember how scared and trapped he looked.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Zyril
 


Excellent post, and a very human story in a very cruel and cynic world. It was cold-war at its height. But it could be something very recent too, since not too much has changed since those times, what comes to the purpose and principles of operation of the military. This man showed some spirit and conscientiousness - he has made a stand for humanity.

My salute goes to him. He's a true soldier.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by cavalryscout
 

He was going to be shipped out and the guy was just scared.

He would have good reason to be. There is a term, to miss ship's movement.
Let's say you get out of training and have orders to report for duty on a ship and it happens to be in home port at the time you go aboard, then it gets orders to sail for some war zone, and you happen to be ashore when it leaves port, that is considered equal to desertion and you could hypothetically hang for it.
edit on 16-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 



Suicide rates are rising because people are waking up to what they are doing is wrong, plain and simple


Actually has little to do with it. Moral objections to the mission are very minimal. After dealing with people in these nations - you realize that, while we may be nearly opposite, culturally - we give an opportunity to those people and treat them with respect rare in their nations.

The depression and suicide comes from the separation from family. In some ways, the electronic age has made it worse. Writing letters to someone 'sweetens' the exchange - the time delay and the nature of letter writing makes the entire context of the communication different from a video chat or phone call. The girlfriend or wife is more likely to talk about daily issues and stressors in an attempt to seek support (and vice-versa) in a real-time exchange.

This can be a very frustrating experience for anyone - hearing about the problems back home and not having the ability to do much about it. These problems amass on top of the usual problems that come along with deployment.

If I were trying to juggle a relationship on top of my deployment, right now, it would be hard. It is rare for the non-military partner in a relationship (and, sometimes, even the military partner) to remain faithful to that relationship. That's a concept I don't deal well with (and many other people - "Dear John/Jane" letters are the bane of deployment - but common).

And that's what it boils down to, usually.

People don't commit suicide because they are in a branch of service doing something they object to. They commit suicide because they feel helpless, powerless, and as though their existence is irrelevant.

It's like with my current chain of command. Individual(s) in certain positions have decided to instate policies that fly in the face of ORM and create an unnecessary and -present- threat to the ability to perform the mission (as opposed to the extremely remote threat such measures are designed to protect against... the chance of rain is several hundred times higher than the chance of said threat; it, however, was 222 degrees today, and summer's not even started). Those individual(s) responsible for such policies will eventually be over-ridden by one of three possible sources: a higher ranking individual who came through and did a "WTF?" ; the mass of individuals who will decide it's BS - and we're operating on too lean of a crew to send people home over aesthetics; or the people who have to be hospitalized due to acute dehydration or electrolyte loss and cause someone in an air conditioned space inconvenient paperwork.

There are two ways to deal with the good idea fairy: Kill her with compliance (such as when you're required to call the liberty phone any time you step out of your housing... just call - the people who wrote the policy will get tired of answering the damned phone and either change the policy or hand the log off to people in your department... you win either way). Or to just ignore her (in the case of things that will get you hurt, killed, or markedly decrease your effectiveness at performing the mission).

You have to be smart about it - or be willing to lose a rank over the issue (though you can always make a phone call to a senator if you really don't give a damned about your own career anymore... and want to watch some fireworks... You want to see a chain of command experience pucker factor... that's how to do it).

Turn about is fair play - if your chain of command throws you under the bus ... throw them under the biggest bus you can and let the train get run on them.

I've seen enough stupid people in the military in positions they do not belong in... and have no sympathy for them. They do untold amounts of damage to their people - waste tax payer dollars, and simply shouldn't be allowed to continue.

So... the point is that poor chains of command tend to encounter resistance as opposed to depression. What causes depression to the point of suicide is feeling impotent and worthless. The only thing that can accomplish that is something close to you - like a wife, girlfriend, (especially if a kid is involved) or family issues.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 




Actually has little to do with it. Moral objections to the mission are very minimal. After dealing with people in these nations - you realize that, while we may be nearly opposite, culturally - we give an opportunity to those people and treat them with respect rare in their nations.


Crap, Iraq was a lie, and what's worse, everyone knew it


Afghanistan is a nightmare and even the reasoning for that war is questionable. Man, you wanna kill people for your country, I bet it's gotta haunt your mind a bit, and all the time, the real reasons for all these wars are never revealed, until it's way too late to do anything about.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 

We are learning more and more everyday but no body believes it.The war we fight in aren't decided by the people as he said;
Have you missed the US?

“Enormously. It is the military actions I have a problem with, but the US is run by a thousand people or so, not the public,” Hemler responds.
But if you join combat arms for money or college you should know you must be a fighter to survive it and you really shouldn't waste your time.
We exist for a reason. Neither you nor I have the complete picture of things as they trully are.The bad is constantly paraded in front of us every day.The people on this board are responding to mostly that.But that having been said soldiering is a thankless ugly job that only a few can do as professionals. Anyone who wants to join knows this or will learn this in basic or they are rejected.Some get through,nothing the US does in the military is perfect.
The leadership fails on a constant basis however and continue to do so.That is who you blame,not us.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Zyril


I thought this might interest some of you ATS'ers. I wonder how many people in the US military feel this way today.

Does anyone know whether or not it was voluntary to join the military when this happened?

What's your view on this? Do anyone know of any modern time deserter stories?


Well he disappeared in the 80's. At that time the military was completely voluntary, but recruiters were also known to make promises they knew full well would never be kept.

As far as modern deserters, I can recall a few stories at the start of the Iraq war but nothing very specific.

reply to post by Aim64C
 


With all due respect, I do not buy one ounce of the story your selling here. If Soldiers are committing suicide because they miss their families... why are so many committing suicide after they return back home?

Getting to the article this is an amazing story. What I find most amazing is what he is saying regarding US Foreign Policy of the time. Really... not much has changed. Notice the mention of how we were funding the Taliban.. who are today now our enemies. I can not help but think of the words of Ron Paul as he discusses how our Foreign Policy is deeply flawed. How we fund, train, and build up groups who later on become our enemies. Just look at these statements from the article...

The Taliban were not called ‘freedom fighters’ but lawless rebels who plundered nearby villages. The brutal extreme right-wing dictator, [Manuel] Noriega, who sold drugs in the US, and Saddam Hussein, weren’t exactly called honorable statesmen.”


Well now the US claims the Taliban are lawless rebels who have oppressed the people of Afghanistan... but we funded them, we trained them, and we put them in power. What happened to Noriega? Oh yeah, eventually we went into Panama and took him out. Saddam Hussein? After funding him and arming him for a war with Iran. We have now went into Iraq twice and eventually took out Saddam. However, back in the 80's Saddam was a "statesman". Anyone remember the picture of Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam?

There is a lot of truth in what this man is saying regarding US Foreign Policy. It's a shame that many will not connect the dots and see it for what it truly is.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Interesting how the rest of the world sees our military adventurism and failed foreign policy yet Americans still have their head in the sand.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 



Suicide rates are rising because people are waking up to what they are doing is wrong, plain and simple


Actually has little to do with it. Moral objections to the mission are very minimal. After dealing with people in these nations - you realize that, while we may be nearly opposite, culturally - we give an opportunity to those people and treat them with respect rare in their nations.

The depression and suicide comes from the separation from family....





Aren't the majority of suicides done after a soldier returns?

Second leading cause of death in the military is suicide.

I wouldn't buy that it has to do with separation from family. That's a higher rate than the prison population, and if the prison population is getting by without all killing themselves, well...
edit on 16-6-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by cavalryscout
He was a volunteer.

The military obviously isn't for everyone, I could only tolerate the bs for four years.

There are ways of getting out without deserting or going awol.

The easiest way is to fail one of your physicals.

If any of you join and change your mind in basic training just fail your pt test. You have to run 2 miles in a certain time, do so many sit-ups and do so many push-ups. If you fail they may send you to holdover and let you try again but most times they just give you an ELS (entry level separation). No harm no foul you go your way they go theirs.

I remember in basic one guy just went and talked with the CO I don't know what he said but they discharged him. Not very common usually it's a little tougher to get out than just asking but I wouldn't go awol and I sure wouldn't desert.



In 84 getting out would have been very easy.

He went through a lot of stuff he didn't need to. A weeks worth of paperwork and interviews, done.



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