The last twelve verses are missing from the oldest manuscripts of Mark's Gospel

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Your comments show you know very little about Marcion, he certainly was a Gnostic, . . .

If you have some special information about Marcion, you should edit the Wikipedia article on him since according to you, it has it all wrong.

. . . and the early church fathers we KEENLY aware of his penchant for "mutilating the scriptures", and shortening them.

He wrote his own Gospel, and left out a lot of entire books from his canon. If you have information on a shortened book by him, you should reveal that information.

His followers would later fabricate the TA, TS and TV manuscripts which have vast sections expurgated, including the last half of Mark 16.

What information do you have that describes this activity going on? Or are you just assuming that this was going on as a good way to ridicule NT texts you don't like?
I see your claims as attacking Christians who read Bible versions that are not approved by your cult leader.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Textus Receptus has been around for a LONG time. And in light of the warning in Revelation about taking away from or adding to God's Word you'd think you'd likewise be as concerned. I'm tired of posting quotes, either read them of don't respond. I'm not going to keep spoon-feeding you information that you wont digest. Read the quotes from the early church fathers, specifically Irenaeus, disciple of Polycarp who in turn was disciple of John.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Textus Receptus has been around for a LONG time.

The name, "Textus Receptus" was an advertising scheme by a printer to make it seem that his version of the exact same text was somehow superior. The text for every version of the Greek New Testament in print at that time was assembled by Erasmus from various sources and have no magical quality to them as being more accurate or "inspired".
It has not been around as a compilation "for a long time" though the individual manuscripts had been copied from ones with a long heritage.

I'm tired of posting quotes, either read them of don't respond.

What I want is information on how exactly your "quotes" reinforce your theory.

The last verses are not there because it is a forgery. So is the verse about The Trinity in Matthew. There are many forgeries.

reply to post by jmdewey60


And I'm asking when exactly what you want became relevant? You're a forum troll.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

And I'm asking when exactly what you want became relevant? You're a forum troll.

As soon as you present crazy theories, that you picked up from frauds making YouTube videos, and pretend that you came up with them yourself and that they are discovered facts.
I don't think denying ignorance is being a "troll" on this forum. I see your role as fulfilling a "prophet" fantasy without regard to how you mislead people, or mainly, driving them away from your genocidal vision of what you have turned Christianity into.

reply to post by jmdewey60


"Frauds making YouTube videos"...

See, this ^^^^ is why you're known here as a troll. It's already been provided to you in a few links where the info about Irenaeus and Marcion came from, from "Against Heresies, volume 1". That book has been linked, the exact chapter even, as well as numerous quotes from early church fathers giving the exact same warnings. If you still can't read oh well, live in ignorance, I couldn't care less.

Can you show which Irenaeus video is on YouTube?? Lol. I HAVE THE BOOK, you can too for less than 30$ on Amazon. It's a Christian classic.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

It's already been provided to you in a few links where the info about Irenaeus and Marcion came from, from "Against Heresies, volume 1". That book has been linked, the exact chapter even, as well as numerous quotes from early church fathers giving the exact same warnings. If you still can't read oh well, live in ignorance, I couldn't care less.

I must have missed the thread where you posted all that. Can you give a link to the post where you quoted something?
I have to guess you were watching a video on how only Bibles based on the same text that the King James was translated from are any good. I'm not about to watch the videos to find the right one, since the cultist talking on them is lying with virtually every word that comes out of his mouth.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I said I linked the page with numerous quotes, I didn't say I copy/pasted numerous quotes, that would be quite redundant. Don't tell me more about your refusal to look at provided information! Lol. Same jmdewey, ask and ask and ask and never view anything provided. Pure troll tactics. Disrupt the thread with question after question, ask for material, then comment on the replies without addressing the material presented.

And again, no videos, the book is "Against Heresies, volume 1". Irenaeus's assault against Gnosticism. Care to address what Irenaeus said instead of some phantom cult leaders and videos you can't seem to mention?? Irenaeus's statements are right here in the thread.

Take your time.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
... in light of the warning in Revelation about taking away from or adding to God's Word

The Council of Nicea in which humans decided on poitical grounds what would or would not be in the New Testament?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Im interested to find out how people know Marcion was a heretic without having any of his original material available?

Can people just take the word of "early church Fathers" in this day and age?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Im interested to find out how people know Marcion was a heretic without having any of his original material available?

Can people just take the word of "early church Fathers" in this day and age?

If people were to debate what you said and did 2000 years from now wouldn't you hope they read what people who lived the same time you lived would have to say? What do you think about what Irenaeus and the other church fathers had to say about Marcion?

Originally posted by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
... in light of the warning in Revelation about taking away from or adding to God's Word

The Council of Nicea in which humans decided on poitical grounds what would or would not be in the New Testament?

Dear God.. Google "council of Nicaea wki", then scroll down to the subheading "misconceptions" and report back what it says about the canon of scripture. This isn't the place to address line by line some fiction from a Dan Brown novel. There is no evidence whatsoever the books of the Bible were even discussed at Nicaea, the council was called to address the Arian heresy.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Im interested to find out how people know Marcion was a heretic without having any of his original material available?

Can people just take the word of "early church Fathers" in this day and age?

If people were to debate what you said and did 2000 years from now wouldn't you hope they read what people who lived the same time you lived would have to say? What do you think about what Irenaeus and the other church fathers had to say about Marcion?

Unfortunatly its been years since i've read his books... and i would hardly say i trust Any of the early church fathers honestly... Their solution for heretics was death in most cases... and that does not examplify the teachings of Jesus what so ever.

IF anything... their solution for heretics is in fact Heresy.

And since all of Marcions work was destroyed... i would say there was likely something they were trying to hide...

reply to post by Akragon


Any sheppard who is worth a crap protects the sheep in his care. Here is a Q.. if Marcion was right then why was God utterly impotent to preserve any of his writings for future generations??

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Any sheppard who is worth a crap protects the sheep in his care. Here is a Q.. if Marcion was rivht then why was God utterly impotent to preserve any of his writings for future generations??

edit on 18-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Do you believe "the general public" has access to all scripture known to man?

Not including the vatican... i would bet money that there are churches all over the world that have scrolls that have been untouched and untranslated hidden away from the world for whatever reasons they have.

I would also bet the Vatican has "gnostic and Christian" scripture hidden away that holds various teachings of Jesus that do not ahear to what they want to preach.

Time will tell... I've read over many of the so called "heretical" works various teachers in the past... None of which deserved to be martyred...

What we need is there for all to read... but i believe theres much more

reply to post by Akragon


I think we have the exact word of God that He wants us to have. But your reply didnt even address my question. You claim no writings of Marcion exist, if he was right why was God completely impotent in preserving any of them? Why is that?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You didn't read what i said...

We don't know if someone, somewhere might have some of his work... And i didn't say he was right, theres no way to know unless we have his material to examine... which either does not exist or has been hidden from the public... perhaps even undiscovered... who knows

The material that exists from Marcion are reconstructions from other writers commenting on his work...

Mostly references from Tertullian's Adversus Marcionem and Epiphanius' Panarion.

(Mar 16:7)
“Now go, tell His matithiYAns and KephAH, 'He goes before you into GalilaiYA. There you will see Him, as He said to you’.”

(Mar 16:8)
They went out immediately and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had come on them. They said nothing to anyone for they were afraid.

(Mar 16:9)
Now after He had arisen very early, at the first light the Firstday Shabath, He appeared first to MariYAam Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demonic spirits.

(Mar 16:10)
She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept.

(Mar 16:11)
Then they heard from her that He was alive and had been seen by her, but they did not believe her.

(Mar 16:12)
After these things He appeared in another form to others of them, as they walked, on their way into the countryside.

(Mar 16:13)
They immediately turned back and told it to the rest. Yet they did not believe them either.

(Mar 16:14)
Afterward He appeared to the eleven by themselves as they sat at the table. He rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

(Mar 16:15)
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach The * Word of YAH’s Covenant to everyone of all creation.

(Mar 16:16)
He who believes in Me; that is he who embraces My Covenant Words and is immersed in My Name, YAHUWAH The Eternal King of The Family of YAH through YAHUW The Savior will be saved but he who does not walk in Me, will remain condemned to eternal death (Ma'asah / Act_2:38).

(Mar 16:17)
These signs will accompany those who believe in My Name YAHUWAH the Eternal King of The Family of YAH; they will cast out demons, they will speak with new languages,

(Mar 16:18)
they will triumph over * Nachesh. When they encounter any deadly thing before their appointed time, it will not hurt them. As I lead them, they will lay hands on the sick in My Name and they will recover."

(Mar 16:19)
So then our Master YAHUW the Savior, after He had spoken to them, was received up into the ShamaYAim and sat down as The Right Hand of Almighty YAHUWAH of All Creation.

(Mar 16:20)
They went out and preached everywhere, YAHUWAH The RUWach QadUWsha working through them and confirming The Word through the miracles that followed their proclaiming The Call of YAH (ameriCAH) concerning YAHUW’s Way of Salvation. * AminAH (I BELIEVE IN YAH)

reply to post by Akragon


Actually Irenaeus's volume 1 is an assault on Gnosticism. And it's a classic that has been used for centuries by theologians and scholars.