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The last twelve verses are missing from the oldest manuscripts of Mark's Gospel

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by redneck13
The washing of the brains continues...........5 times a day


what does this comment mean ? do you wish to elaborate ? cause so far you have contributed nothing to this thread, other then weak attempts try and stir the pot , please at any point feel free to contribute knowledge


thanks




posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

I was hoping to learn something from you
since you seem to be far more knowledgeable then I especially a person that prays five times a day, that you could offer me some wisdom from the Qumran. I hope by understanding it better I could walk through life as blissful as yourself



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

I was hoping to learn something from you
since you seem to be far more knowledgeable then I especially a person that prays five times a day, that you could offer me some wisdom from the Qumran. I hope by understanding it better I could walk through life as blissful as yourself



if you are serious , i would LOVE help you out in anyway i can , and just because the quran worked for me , it might not be your path , only god knows what path you need to take , but rest assure you will find it . but you have to want it ...



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by redneck13
 


Please! Next they're gonna find the twig Jesus used to clean his teeth. It must be his because it dates back 2000 years and it's from the middle east!



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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A useful article on the end of Mark:

en.wikipedia.org...

Most modern translations of the Gospel offer the reader both the Longer and Shorter endings with a note.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by Shoonra
 


We realize that, most will say "likely added by a well-intentioned scribe...", but that's foolishness. One needs to ask themselves why there are verses missing from the Bible in 3rd and 4th century manuscripts that people are quoting from in the 2nd century? Doesn't pass the smell test bro.

edit on 16-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The Gnostics removed that chapter along with a TON of other verses in their 3 manuscripts because it didn't align with their doctrines. Look at Irenaeus's quote about Marcion "mutilating the scriptures". The Gnostics rejected Christ's literal death and resurrection, so you can't have Mark 16 now can ya?

The established church corporation within Imperial Rome did not abide with Gnostics and eradicated them, so would not be inclined to accept into their reading of the scripture books written by them, if such things ever existed.
The Gnostics, as far as I can tell, did not bother with what we would refer to today as the canonical books of the New Testament, and wrote their own versions, apparently based on the same sources that the canonical writers had available to them.
Marcion was not a Gnostic, though he had some beliefs that were similar to those held by them. He was an ordinary Christian and a Bishop who decided the God and Father of Jesus was not the same person as portrayed in the Old Testament, and that if anything, YHWH would have been some sort of demon.
You don't have anything to back up your claims and are only parroting things you heard from YouTube videos produced by a known liar and a fraud.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Lol, you can google Irenaeus's quotes about Marcion. They are easily researchable on the net.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere

Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by apushforenlightment
 


Can a wealthy man enter heaven?
It would be easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle
However, all is possible through God
Baptism takes place when you come to the realization that Christ died for our sins
The reason for Baptism is that you are professing your faith in Jesus
It symbolizes the resurrection and your re-birth into the Holy Spirit
edit on 15-6-2012 by redneck13 because: /


my good man ... that is all fine and dandy .......... but lets prove this to be true


From my point of view. I was baptised when I was young and that did nothing for me. I had a toped out amygydala because of extreme intense fear where the soul screams for release a few decades later and had a spiritual moment 4 days later. That opened the crown Chakra and Third eye and it was not really my doing. From my point of view I have been thru that rebirth and I am while meditating feeling things that are unseen and become happy and loving when I feel it. It is sometimes like having a strange cap on your head. A very physical thing. I do not know what other people experiance are and how their bodies work so I can only talk about my own experinaces.

I have a viewpoint that is more Buddhist than Christian but see Jesus as from the same source as Buddha. But I belive in Chakras from the Hindus. I do not belive Jesus died for my sins and do not want him to take away any karma I have caused. I will take resonsability for my actions when I get to see what really happened here when I leave this place. I want to say that I always have but I am unsure. But I am wowing to always fix what I do wrong but at my own pace. I do not know how any other person is meant to evolve and cannot judge what will be the best road for a specific soul. So my advice is to go with what feels right and does not hurt others.

I still have some ego mind issues but at least I am aware of them
.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere

Originally posted by Azadok2day
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 


If you can not have faith enough to believe that God made sure we had exactly what he meant for us to have when they wrote the KJV bible and doubt the bible is factual then you and all like you have no real faith in God.

The KJV Bible turned 400 years old last year in 2011 that is ten forties , ten in in the bible represent divine perfection and forty represents probation. Last year the judgement of man began after Gods Devine perfection of giving man ten generations of probation to trust in that bible to guide them to Gd and protect them from Satan .

By the way the number 11 in the bible marks disorder and judgement and it also just so happens that every person of age ( above 13) had the number 111 common to them . If you took the last two digets of the year you were born and your age it came to 111 . One person is the first 1 and then judgment and disorder for the 11 for every single person on earth .

You should really rethink about the word of God and stop listening to these so called scripture lawyers. Gd has a plan and the KJV bible is part of it and these numbers I showed you are no coincidence but are very much part of the plan for those with eyes to see andears to hear. Peace



with all do respect , the "bible" has no impact on my "faith" in god my good man , i know god is very real , therefor faith is not needed , because i know , and it feels very good to walk through life knowing , and the bible never gave me that , the only thing the bible ever did for me was "questions" yes it forced me to question my religion at that time , as i was a christen once , the parables ect ect , , so yes maybe it guided me ... it guided me away from Christianity .... and away from Christianity is where i found god ....and love ....... and please do not tell me that i am misguided , i have so much love and compassion now, i would never return to an organised creation of man .. and believe me i say this with a pure humble heart ,

your brother

Love LSH


Hihihi Good answer. There is only one verse in the bible that is really needed to find the wisdom and the connection within.

>
"Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you".




if you are serious , i would LOVE help you out in anyway i can , and just because the quran worked for me , it might not be your path , only god knows what path you need to take , but rest assure you will find it . but you have to want it ...



I think I agree with you. Need seem to be the key at least when it is sudden.

I wish you have fun Soulbrother. Namaste
edit on 16-6-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by redneck13
fresh thread
www.abovetopsecret...

By Chris Brooke
PUBLISHED: 01:05 GMT, 15 June 2012 | UPDATED: 16:18 GMT, 15 June 20

Bring me the knuckle of John the Baptist: Scientists claim 'positive' tests on 1st-century relics which are from one man, from the right place at the right timeDNA tests on three bones confirmed they were probably from someone of Middle East origin - where John the Baptist came from
They also established they were likely to be from a man



In the middle ages the collection of relics became a pretty huge industry. If you follow the stories, John the Baptist possibly had fourteen or more big toes. There was a relic in every church ("Brought back from the Holy lands"), and some sort of shrine in every castle chapel (There was an edict by the Catholic church that every altar had to have a relic). If you took all the wood from the cross that turned up, you'd have enough wood to build a small ship.

1. Take old bone
2. Wrap in cloth
3. Put in box
4. Invent story about it being the pinky of John the Baptist
5. Sell to local church/Monastery
6. Go spend your money
7. Repeat in next village



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Lol, you can google Irenaeus's quotes about Marcion. They are easily researchable on the net.

Anything can be Googled, so what is your point?
What is it exactly that you think can be found in this way that would support your claims?
I doubt that you know and just believe that there is something out there, based on the regard you have for who produced the YouTube videos you listen to, in a cult member fashion.
edit on 16-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere

Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

I was hoping to learn something from you
since you seem to be far more knowledgeable then I especially a person that prays five times a day, that you could offer me some wisdom from the Qumran. I hope by understanding it better I could walk through life as blissful as yourself



if you are serious , i would LOVE help you out in anyway i can , and just because the quran worked for me , it might not be your path , only god knows what path you need to take , but rest assure you will find it . but you have to want it ...


In regards to the resurrection according to the Quran,
It says in the Qumran that Jesus was not crucified and that another person was put in his place and made to look like Jesus.
Therefore, Jesus was not crucified and resurrected but he ascended to heaven unharmed.
Jesus was not a Christ; he was a Muslim prophet just like Mohammed
Do Muslims really believe the Qumran to be true in this aspect?
en.wikipedia.org...-20

Text
Islamic texts categorically deny the idea of crucifixion or death attributed to Jesus by the Bible.[5][20] The Quran states that people (i.e., the Jews and Romans) sought to kill Jesus, but they did not crucify nor kill him, although "this was made to appear to them." Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified but instead, he was raised up by God unto the heavens. This "raising" is understood to mean through bodily ascension.


That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

—Quran sura 4 (Al-Nisa النساء) ayah 157-158[21]

Discussing the interpretation of those scholars who deny the crucifixion, the Encyclopaedia of Islam writes:


The denial, furthermore, is in perfect agreement with the logic of the Quran. The Biblical stories reproduced in it (e.g., Job, Moses, Joseph etc.) and the episodes relating to the history of the beginning of Islam demonstrate that it is "God's practice" (sunnat Allah) to make faith triumph finally over the forces of evil and adversity. "So truly with hardship comes ease", (XCIV, 5, 6). For Jesus to die on the cross would have meant the triumph of his executioners; but the Quran asserts that they undoubtedly failed: "Assuredly God will defend those who believe"; (XXII, 49). He confounds the plots of the enemies of Christ



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Lol, you can google Irenaeus's quotes about Marcion. They are easily researchable on the net.

Anything can be Googled, so what is your point?
What is it exactly that you think can be found in this way that would support your claims?
I doubt that you know and just believe that there is something out there, based on the regard you have for who produced the YouTube videos you listen to, in a cult member fashion.
edit on 16-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


I've posted his warnings about Marcion and the Gnostics in various threads here more than a dozen times. I know what I'm talking about.

Well if you have "Against Heresies" in your posession then use it, however Goggle is much easier. You're the one who acts like Irenaeus didn't let the cat out of the bag about what Marcion and his followers were doing in Egypt. His quotes are warnings are easily attained.
edit on 16-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You're the one who acts like Irenaeus didn't let the cat out of the bag about what Marcion and his followers were doing in Egypt.

I'm just someone reading posts and seeing you making outrageous claims that are one, ridiculous on the face of them, and two, not anything I have run into in any of my studies, and they would be discussed because of how important they would be if there was any truth to them whatsoever.
To me, you are the most prolific disseminator of bogus information on this forum (specifically in the religious sub-forums), since you buy all the stuff put out by the theological fraud, Chuck Missler, without checking any of it for validity, and just accepting it whole cloth as if it was given directly by God Himself.
Marcion lived north of Cappadocia, and Irenaeus lived in what is now Lyon, France. I can't imagine that Marcion was somehow directing the copying of the church New Testaments in Alexandria, and I can't imagine that Irenaeus somehow had some sort of inside information on how the New Testament texts were being handled by scribes in Alexandria.
You are the one making the extraordinary claim and so the burden is on you to give evidence, where I am not able to prove the negative, that you made this all up, or rather your source for this disinformation did.
edit on 16-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Actually, you purposely only read from authors and book titles/subjects that reinforce your already held beliefs. Everytime you post a new book you're reading it aligns with something you already believe. I read from everyone, for one reason I follow the wisdom in the quote in my sig, and for two you should know your opponent's position. (Duh) Instead of taking my word for it you could have just done a BASIC search yourself, heck even Wki talks about Irenaeus and Gnosticism/Marcion:

Wiki - Irenaeus

And here is chapter 27 of "Against Heresies" (Vol 1) which I have posted OFTEN in these forums:


Against Heresies, vol 1 ch. 27



Knock yourself out! Quit slandering people which you have NO CLUE ABOUT. I have the books and READ them, no "YouTube Videos" required!!!











edit on 17-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I have the books and READ them, no "YouTube Videos" required!!!

So could you possibly recall where you picked up this information, such as the titles of the books you read, so I can read them myself? It's pretty simple, you either dreamed one night that Marcion was manipulating the copying of texts in the Church (from a distance requiring a trip of two or three months by sea, or a year by land) , and that he was somehow a Gnostic (despite not holding to the main tenet that is the defining characteristic of that belief) and that someone else on the opposite end of the empire was reporting on it; or you read things that you assembled in your mind into a coherent sort of theory; or you heard someone else (who is prone to making up fantastic theories) talking about his theory.
If you came up with it yourself, you should be able to reconstruct how you came up with it. Seeing how you are unable, or unwilling to describe the process, I have to assume that it comes from listening uncritically to someone you have a virtual cult leader/cult follower relationship with.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


The process? It's very difficult and quite extraordinary. I go to the bookshelf, select a book and read it. When I said that I "have the books", I was refering to "Against Heresies, vol 1" by Irenaeus. You can get one off Amazon for under 30 bucks. The volume is his attack on Gnosticism basically. Get the book and read away, heck be a lazy carcase and click the online version and knock yourself out. I've even linked it above ^^^.

I read about 2 books per week, it's not hard. So now I suppose you'll accuse me of being in the Irenaeus cult right?
How's that for an Earth-shattering process?? Read a book... oh, and it's okay to read books that are contrary to your preconceived opinions, you wont burst into flames.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The volume is his attack on Gnosticism basically.

The fact that Irenaeus wrote a book about heresies and mentioned Gnostics and also Marcion does not prove your claims or could be the sole source for the theory you are promoting.
The "process" is how you arrive at your conclusion, which considering your inability to explain, I have to assume was clicking on the Play button for a YouTube video.
edit on 18-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Really, you think a book authored by Irenaeus about Gnostics that mentions Marcion by name couldn't possibly be my sole source for my claims about what Irenaeus had to say about Gnostics and Marcion??? Are you high?

See that's why you shouldn't assume. There is a great chasm between "inability to" and "no desire to". It's not that I cannot, but I DO NOT want to. You're merely a forum troll who attacks Christians every chance you get on these forums, and like I said several other times you no longer get pearls, you must gather ones that have already been cast that others have not picked up. You constantly preach an anti-theology about someone else and hardly ever that I can recall a pro-theology about Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Your comments show you know very little about Marcion, he certainly was a Gnostic, and the early church fathers we KEENLY aware of his penchant for "mutilating the scriptures", and shortening them. His followers would later fabricate the TA, TS and TV manuscripts which have vast sections expurgated, including the last half of Mark 16.


Marcion's Heresies



edit on 18-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)





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