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Prayer out loud in Church

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posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by mojo2012

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by mojo2012
Can anyone point out the scripture where it says it's ok to stand up and pray out loud?

In Matthew 6:6, Jesus says to pray in secret. And the closet i think he's refering to is the prayer shawl if I'm not mistaken.



Can you show the verse where a person praying for others or group prayer is prohibited? Jesus is merely telling the discipmes how they should pray, it's not an exhaustive teaching on prayer.


I never said praying for others is prohibited.

Give me a verse after Matthew 6:6 where they prayed other than the way they were told.


I already did. Acts chapter 2. 120 people spent 10 days praying "in one accord" in the upper room culminating at Pentecost when the Holy Ghost fell.




posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by phroziac
Whats wrong with praying out loud in church? What jesus was against was the pharisees making a big huge deal in public of their prayers....acting like they were more holy than everyone when they were just full of crap...

Because you are directing it to something out there, instead on in here. To pray out loud is to stroke the ego, and to impress peers only.
I know well my inner God and Goddess, don't you, friend?


Thats not the way i see it, i see it as a group of people making the same prayer together...therefore it has mote power and specialness.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by phroziac

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by phroziac
Whats wrong with praying out loud in church? What jesus was against was the pharisees making a big huge deal in public of their prayers....acting like they were more holy than everyone when they were just full of crap...

Because you are directing it to something out there, instead on in here. To pray out loud is to stroke the ego, and to impress peers only.
I know well my inner God and Goddess, don't you, friend?


Thats not the way i see it, i see it as a group of people making the same prayer together...therefore it has mote power and specialness.


Correct, that's how two or more agree as touching any one thing. One prays and others agree in faith.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 

Dear mojo2012,

Sorry for the delay.


Post a verse where Jesus prayed when he wasn't alone.
I suppose it depends a little on what you define prayer to be, but I think these would fit:

Matthew 14:19
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

19 And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people.
Matthew 26:26

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” (emphasis added)

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 


I have been told that the closet is the prayer shawl. Jews would put it over their head to pray.

He's saying to pretty much pray where people can't hear you since the prayer is only to the Father.

I was told something similar myself, but my thinking is the way they all prayed in those days, and still do in some places, bunched all together there, one would require a little privacy, perhaps so your neighbour couldn't see your facial expressions?



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by mojo2012
I think I have confused some of you that have posted.

By out loud I meant projecting your voice. Of course you are suppose to say your prayer with your voice but prayer is meant for the Father so you say it in a low voice.

The reason i made this thread is because some pastors pray out loud(projecting their voice) and I believe prayer shouldn't be done this way based on Matthew 6:6.

I'll tell you why the Ancient Gods did not allow prayers to be said out loud. Because words are power, and Yahweh and his bunch had some pretty strict rules against all forms of Magick and Sorcery, and these are performed with the use of words said aloud, vibrated in some cases, and used to effect change within the natural order of things. So, this is why the Ancient Gods did not want Humans to pray our loud, for it may influence others to follow suit, and during the time of Purification Human Will be at an all time high in humanity. Imagine is everyone had Magickal Powers at the same time today. Can you see what would quickly happen? This is the Church reasoning for making all things Occult forbidden.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by mojo2012
 

Dear mojo2012,

Sorry for the delay.


Post a verse where Jesus prayed when he wasn't alone.
I suppose it depends a little on what you define prayer to be, but I think these would fit:

Matthew 14:19
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

19 And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people.
Matthew 26:26

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” (emphasis added)

With respect,
Charles1952


I think of praise and prayer to be two different things.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by mojo2012

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by mojo2012
Can anyone point out the scripture where it says it's ok to stand up and pray out loud?

In Matthew 6:6, Jesus says to pray in secret. And the closet i think he's refering to is the prayer shawl if I'm not mistaken.



Can you show the verse where a person praying for others or group prayer is prohibited? Jesus is merely telling the discipmes how they should pray, it's not an exhaustive teaching on prayer.


I never said praying for others is prohibited.

Give me a verse after Matthew 6:6 where they prayed other than the way they were told.


I already did. Acts chapter 2. 120 people spent 10 days praying "in one accord" in the upper room culminating at Pentecost when the Holy Ghost fell.


Thank you.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 

Dear mojo2012,

I can't wait for telepathy so we don't have to rely on words to get ideas across.

I think of praise and prayer to be two different things.
I'm confused by "praise." If I praise my parents to you, I see that as a different thing than praising them face to face. Likewise, I see it as two different things to tell you that God is good, and to tell God that He is good.

The way I currently think about prayer is, excessively simply, a conversation with God. Praise is part of nearly every one of my prayers. I admit, however, that I sometimes just run yelling to Him with a complaint or a pain. I would think that every time He talked to His father, it would qualify as prayer.

But you see it differently, that's fine. What's your understanding of prayer?

(Really small point? The verses I gave show Jesus thanking God, not praising Him.)

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 


There is actually 7 differerent Hebrew words for the one English word "praise" used in the book of Psalms, each with a totally different meaning. My favorites are Yadah, Shabach and Halal.


edit on 14-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 


I'm not knocking praying in private. There's plenty of reason to be doing so.

1. But Christ states: pray this way: THEN PRAYS. IN PUBLIC. WHERE HE CAN BE HEARD IN ORDER TO HAVE IT WRITTEN. (Which is why I had it up.) There is no reason in the world to demonstrate publicly when you're not supposed to do it at all, in public, so this is a bit of a silly conclusion. People wouldn't have marveled at his authority on the scriptures at the end of the beatitudes, if they thought he was disobeying his own direct order. They would have thought something quite different about him.

2. Acts 3:1

Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the ninth hour, the hour of prayer.
Why in the world would the apostles go to the public hour of prayer at the temple and not pray? Now, they never did make it that far, that day.

3. James 5:14-15

14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
Why in the world would you have someone literally pray over you (while anointing you with oil, mind you) if prayer wasn't supposed to have an audience at all?

And yes, the groups gathered for prayer:
4. Acts 12:5

12 And when he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying.
This is from the context that a whole group of them gathered together to pray for Peter's release from prison, right as Peter went to knock on the door of the group gathered together in prayer..and the servant Rhoda freaked everyone out by insisting Peter was at the gate to the house?


~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, as for the shawl thought, this directly disputes another set of verses:

Remember how some groups come to the conclusion that the Bible orders women to wear long hair and cover it--and that the men shouldn't cover their hair? It's in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16

Verses like: 1 Cor. 11:4:

Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head.

Or 1 Cor. 11: 5-6

But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.


At the conclusion: 1 Cor. 11:16

But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.
the problem with this translation, is that the Greek in this verse is different:
If/moreover/a certain opinion/is contentious/to exist, we/such as this/custom/not/have or hold/neither/this/congregation/of/God's.
In English, it better reads:

If [this conclusion] also causes people who have an opinion to be contentious, we don't have this custom, nor does the rest of the church.

Would any authority in the scripture override Christ's directly telling people to cover their head in such a blatant manner?

No.

Why were the men and women in Corinth told to uncover their heads (if male) and cover their heads (if female?), during prayer?

That part takes looking at the history of Corinth. Prostitute priests for other gods would cross-dress. He was encouraging women to cover their heads because many of them were waiting on their hair to grow out--and for men to not cover their heads, so they wouldn't look like male prostitutes in their city. It was an effort to protect the church--but if people became riled up by this, no one could enforce it because it wasn't something that all the group did or did not do (as in, women didn't cover their hair to pray, nor did men always uncover theirs).



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 


Cross reference it with the Lord's Prayer. Giving thanks and "give us this day our daily bread" is fairly synonymous.


But Christ laid hands on people and prayed: Matthew 19:13

Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them.


And his deciples asked for instructions on how to pray after havign watched him pray: Luke 11:1


It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples."


Remember, when Christ went off by himself to pray, the scriptures point blank state "he went off by himself to pray". So, if he's praying, and that is not stated, then people were with him. Some of his prayers, Christ was a stone's throw a way. The bible can be pretty exact, when it wants to, so when this is not noted, then to say that this one was alone, too, because of a conclusion (nothing more than an opinion drawn from data), when there was not a need for a conclusion on all the others? That's assuming quite a bit.




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