Did Republicans deliberately crash the US economy?

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by SubSea
Let me fix that title for you:

"Did Obama deliberately Crash the U.S. Economy because he hates America?"

Of course Obama does not hate America. It seems pretty obvious though that you hate Obama. Why is that I wonder?

I think it boils down to people hating others who are not like them.
I'm very clear in my hatred of bush as a leader and I hated him because he was stupid, i.e., not intelligent.
Some loved him because he was a born-again evangelical.

So, with Obama, many of the born-again evangelicals hate him because he's not a born-again evangelical and they see him as a threat to their "core being".

Those of us whose core being was "intelligence" hated bush because he had none. Those whos core being is "evangelical" hate obama because he isn't one. Those whose core being is conservative hate him because he isn't one. Those whose core being is "being white" hate him because he isn't. Those whose core being doesn't match what they see him as, hate him for it. It's not as much about hating him personally, they hate him as a leader, just as I hated bush as a leader.

... we rather bear those ills we have than flee to others we know not of ~Shakespere

It's been going on for centuries and is part of the human condition. Maybe if we all were to realize that this is the case, we could move past it.... but I still hate bush.

Originally posted by proximo
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

If you are responding to me, you have no clue at all. I am referring to the yearly budget deficit of 1.4 trillion being reduced by 20%, even if the tax cut gets put back in we are still looking at a yearly deficit of 1 Trillion+ that will grow every year as the medical costs increase. So 80% of the yearly current deficit will continue to get added to our total deficit of 16 trillion.

Let me put this very simply - Medical costs + welfare + Social Security + Interest on the debt is equal TODAY to all the taxes the government takes in. There is no money left over for any other government spending - Zero for the military, Zero for education, Zero for any other government agency. The population is aging and medical costs have gone up 8% or more every year for the last 30 years. That means medical costs will be double what they are today in 7.5 years.

This is not a joke, and not something that can be solved without SERIOUS pain. The pain is coming, it is only what form it will take and how soon it gets here, but it is at this point completely unavoidable. The last few years will be considered the golden age compared to what is coming.

edit on 10-6-2012 by proximo because: (no reason given)

I'm afraid that you are the one not getting it. All of the damage that was done by the tax cuts would STOP being done when those tax cuts are alleviated. My statement was overgeneralized on purpose to let you see that over time, correcting a mistake does bring us closer to doing away with its effects.
There are other changes that need to be made, but it seemed you were proposing that the tax cuts stay in place and that would be severly detrimental. Regardless of what we feel should be done or suggest to be done, something will be done and it will get better. It will either get better and return to the level we once had or it will fall apart and will be replaced by something that will eventually get us to a point where we feel we are "doing well" until it falls apart again.
In the grand scheme of things, we're in the valley instead of on top of he mountain. We're climbing back up now and will be at the top again until we go tumbling over the side again .... wash, rinse, repeat...

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'm afraid that you are the one not getting it. All of the damage that was done by the tax cuts would STOP being done when those tax cuts are alleviated. My statement was overgeneralized on purpose to let you see that over time, correcting a mistake does bring us closer to doing away with its effects.
There are other changes that need to be made, but it seemed you were proposing that the tax cuts stay in place and that would be severly detrimental. Regardless of what we feel should be done or suggest to be done, something will be done and it will get better. It will either get better and return to the level we once had or it will fall apart and will be replaced by something that will eventually get us to a point where we feel we are "doing well" until it falls apart again.
In the grand scheme of things, we're in the valley instead of on top of he mountain. We're climbing back up now and will be at the top again until we go tumbling over the side again .... wash, rinse, repeat...

Nope you are wrong, I am actually in favor of the tax being reinstituted for all the good it will do which is damn little. The point is though the problem is so so much larger than that tax despite what the media and congress would have you believe. We are very close to not being able to borrow another cent - could happen this month if the Eurozone blows up, when that happens we get to do one of two things, run a zero deficit or start hyperinflation. Either way the economy will be destroyed.

It is impossible to increase taxes enough to balance the budget, trying to do so would destroy the tax base. Massive spending cuts must occur, and they must occur in social spending since it alone is eating all our tax income.

SOMEONE is deliberately crashing the US economy. I just have not been able to make up my mind as to who or why. But yes, it does seem to being done deliberately.

Originally posted by fixer1967
SOMEONE is deliberately crashing the US economy. I just have not been able to make up my mind as to who or why. But yes, it does seem to being done deliberately.

That is the real point here. It doesn't matter who is behind it, it only matters that it seems that it is being done purposely. I only put this article up, to show that it's not just ATSers who think stuff like this is going on.

reply to post by SUICIDEHK45


And another thing. Does anyone esle think that all this "Cash For Gold" buy back is just part on the overall plan

Originally posted by proximo
This is so ridiculous I'm not even sure how to respond. First off you are buying into the non-existant right left paradigm at an astonishing level. You really think a party is willing to potentially kill off millions of citizens so that their party wins the next election?

Second you obviously have no understanding of how the economy works, or the causes of the downturn. The banking system is 70% of our problem and the government is essentially looking the other way. Neither side is making any kind of a real move to put them in check, because they are both paid off. Also if they tried it would become obvious that all the major banks are beyond broke still, which would detonate the economy. Doesn't matter they can't hide this truth forever, it will get out one way or another.

Republicans are now opposed to more stimulus because it cannot do anything but make things worse. The reason is simple you cannot solve a problem of more debt than you can ever pay off by borrowing more. Even someone with an IQ under 50 should understand this but for some reason the Keynsian economist professor retards are still screaming more stimulus will fix all our problems and many politicians choose to believe them - because they want to.

Yes if the debt load is low, a temporary increase of debt to stimulate the economy MAY work if it is spent correctly and paying it back is possible in a relatively short period of time. We are so far past that point it is not remotely funny.

Congress is ready to have a battle royal over the bush tax cuts which is around 20 percent of our deficit, it really is to small a change to even matter. Until they talk about HUGE medical reform the politicians are simply not serious about trying to solve the problem. The medical benefit system as it stands alone will destroy the economy within a decade, but the banks will bring us down before we ever get there.

Ok, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Republican or democrat matters not. Politician and incumbent are all that matters. Party is just a fad. Strings are pulled by big business/bankers etc. Money is power. Power rules politicians. Greed is the rule not the exception. All rich are greedy or they would be poorer.

Now the Americans who know things are bad and need to be fixed and are willing to give up their meager existence to make sure their kids have a shot at a normal life are willing to make a sacrifice and remove the cancer. Others support blindly because that is what they are told to do on Sunday. Still others dutifully surrender their own intelligence to belligerent leaders who browbeat them into submission using tactics borrowed from drill sergeants.

So what should we do about it?

We can't use the internet with privacy anymore because of Bush.

We can't believe the news anywhere in America now because of the Congress and the appropriation bill allowing propaganda on it's own people. It's one thing for all of the news shows to make up lies about future war sites for America, but to have the government pay for it and edit the footage further is just insane.

We can't assemble without the threat of violence against us. There are plenty of internet cops patrolling threads and shutting down people who speak the truth. I am one who has been quieted for voicing my opinion, but since it differed from those in charge I was removed as are plenty of others.

Other rights are disappearing, but the people would rather bitch about protesters killing their grass or camping in parks and trashing public places. When will these people feel threatened? When their 9-5 job is taken away and they can't retire with a full salary from the local or state/federal government? Sounds an awful lot like communism to me.

I have no doubt about the depth of corruption in the Bush administration and I am not ignorant enough to believe GHW was a pawn. He is definitely an idiot with a low IQ, but he is also unscrupulous and religiously driven, a dangerous combination. Cheney had all the connections and the plan. They both got very rich and a lot of property changed hands. Russia is now a lot different than it was 10 years ago and they are ready for us. China learned their lesson and they are trying to cut their losses, but they will side with Russia and Japan and maybe Israel if we don't play nice.

We are now the tyrants of the world. We are not justified in any fight now. Just like we did to the Germans after the war we will be shown our atrocities firsthand when the invaders pay us back. We will have to take credit for Bush and Cheney because we did nothing! Blame Obama, that's easy, but you have to force all those annoying facts out of your brain first like the weekend bailout of the banks that couldn't wait till Monday. Curious how it all happened in the final months of their rule after the election.

So what do we do?

reply to post by SUICIDEHK45


I doubt 'the republicans' did. One could equally point to legislation and actions by many democrats in Congress who are equally culpable in the actions that have crippled our economy.

But, more importantly, the people who benefit from the contracting of our economy only use these politicians. blaming one party or the other is silly. Look at who is still getting rich in the 'terrible' economy. The Dow is breaking records. Major corporations are pulling in record profits.

And those corporations control a large swath of out government, both D and R

reply to post by proximo


I am with you on cutting social programs, but to say it is the only cause of our demise is just juvenile.

We have to balance the budget first.

Second we need to get rid of programs and agencies that are redundant or useless. If the agency is paid by corporations in any way they should be eliminated.

Third should be a flat tax. If you spend money you get taxed.

Forth should be a shift in public service attitudes. Public service should not be a get rich quick scheme. There needs to be a separation of public service from private "Donations" from special interest groups or superpacs or whatever they want to call legal bribery this week.

Fifth, not necessarily in order, should be the removal of the FED. Why would any sane society pay a bank to print their money for them and base the economy on their word? We need a central bank backed by the gold standard.

Those are a few things to get us started on the right path. I can tell you now that these things will never come to pass with the current system though. It will have to all be destroyed and millions of people made homeless and impoverished before people begin to overlook their differences and accept their own faults before they act.

I am ready.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by SubSea
Let me fix that title for you:

"Did Obama deliberately Crash the U.S. Economy because he hates America?"

Those of us whose core being was "intelligence

you know the kind of person who constantly talks about how "intelligent" they are, are usually the most UN-intelligent.

You seem to use self deception (IE, talking about your intelligent "core" LMAO) to convince yourself otherwise .

I do think the current Republican Party would indeed intentionally wreck the economy just to make the other team look bad. It will effectively cover up there recent failures with the economy under Bush.

Things are going to get really bad here in America really soon, the ideology of current parties to not work together towards a common good our current system will lead to the downfall of the republic.

Scripted media will lead to uninformed Americans more so than what we have now.

Neither party will work for the common good or do whats best for all.

reply to post by truthseeker808


I know how to use quote boxes

reply to post by PurpleChiten

The initial crash in 2008 happened under Bush and was a direct result of the $500 checks he sent to everyone along with lowering taxes for his "rich buddies" then compounded by all the funding that was wasted by him wanting to attack Iraq who had absolutely nothing to do with 911.

Interesting theory.

What was the total cost for all that ?

What parts actually caused the financial collapse ?

And how exactly does this justify all the wild spending starting in 2009 ?


I thought the early 00"s tax cuts helped lower the unemployment rate and created an economic boom in the mid 00's.

All that even after the financial devastation caused by 9-11.

Hmmm.

Many theories say the derivative markets combined with accounting tricks "created" the crisis.

reply to post by rickymouse


Ever hear these politicians talking about cutting their lucrative pensions, benefits and cutting their over-paid salaries? Ever hear them talk about instituting term limits to prevent them from cashing in on their enormous pensions?

Government officials can talk all about cutting social security and government workers pensions, but why do these same officials ignore the fact that they've robbed from these pensions, passed unbalanced budgets year after year and continue to reward and grant themselves raises above and beyond the average American? They are, after all, in public office to serve the people, not to make a lifetime career out of it. Why should these government workers and working Americans who paid into these pensions their entire life, have to sacrifice them on account of political servants that have robbed from them and can't even balance the nation and states budgets.

Anybody else robbing from someone's personal retirement account would be held accountable and sent to jail! Maybe the public should demand more accountability of their "public servants" and stop their lucrative pensions and benefits. After all, they became public servants not for the money but to serve the public's interest. Robbing workers pension funds and social security is not my idea of serving the public's interest, but serving themselves. Enough said.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by rickymouse

 

Ever hear these politicians talking about cutting their lucrative pensions, benefits and cutting their over-paid salaries? Ever hear them talk about instituting term limits to prevent them from cashing in on their enormous pensions?

Yes. Some try. They are generally (but not always) thwarted in their efforts. For 3 examples, John Dingle, Jim DeMint and U.S. Rep. David Schweikert all come to mind.

California just recently passed term limit legislation.

oh! heres a link!

www.termlimits.org...

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by rickymouse

 

Ever hear these politicians talking about cutting their lucrative pensions, benefits and cutting their over-paid salaries? Ever hear them talk about instituting term limits to prevent them from cashing in on their enormous pensions?

Yes. Some try. They are generally (but not always) thwarted in their efforts. For 3 examples, John Dingle, Jim DeMint and U.S. Rep. David Schweikert all come to mind.

California just recently passed term limit legislation.

oh! heres a link!

www.termlimits.org...

The term limit legislation sounds like something the entire country needs!

reply to post by stanguilles7


That's good news, lets hope it starts spreading to other states!

The problem I have with congress is they manage their own house. If term limits and reduction in their salaries were put on the ballots, I'm sure the public would send a clear message and put an end to career politics. When congress has to pass legislation that directly affects them, it will take years or it will never come up for a vote. Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read.

reply to post by Hawking


Your right Obama wasn't pres, but both houses of congress ( which we all know holds the purse strings) were controlled by dems in 2006, before the debt crisis started

and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the pet project of Bawney (Wanks) Fwank

Tim Geitner(sp) -former fed reserve NY chairman, now treasury secretary under Obama.
Ben Bernanke took over for Timmy when he changed jobs, and Obama kept ole' Benny on as chairman when he took office.

The list goes on.. you can blame the wars for the deficit... but before you do.. compare how much we spend on medicare etc. and bear in mind that these programs have never been reformed to any lasting fiscal extent.

Also, and this is a question from myself. if our debt is 15 Trillion+ and China is that largest debt holder at 1.2 trillion give or take a few billion, exactly who owns the majority of all that? something tells me the Fed or the Rothschilds

reply to post by LoonyConservative


This debt crisis has been going on for a long time, way before 2006. The whole problem is that Pork projects created to acquire votes are way out of line. If you knew the real national debt you would be shocked.

reply to post by LoonyConservative

Also, and this is a question from myself. if our debt is 15 Trillion+ and China is that largest debt holder at 1.2 trillion give or take a few billion, exactly who owns the majority of all that? something tells me the Fed or the Rothschilds

The Federal Reserve has a lot of the U.S. Treasury debt.

Under Obama, Fed’s Holdings of U.S. Debt Have Jumped 452%

Under Obama, Fed’s Holdings of U.S. Debt Have Jumped 452%

 

The Federal Reserve as of April 25th owns $1.668,000,000,000 worth of U.S. Government Securities.

Apparently that puts them over the top for single owners including China and other countries.

Under Obama, this is another record.


I wonder if it's due to decreasing demand combined with the wild binge spending ?

I suspect it is. What else could it be ?

Sounds like fiscal cheating to me.

(CNSNews.com) - Since President Barack Obama was inaugurated in January 2009, the Federal Reserve’s holdings of U.S. government debt have quintupled, according to the Fed’s official monthly balance sheet.

On Jan. 28, 2009, a week after Obama’s nomination, the Fed owned $302 billion in U.S. Treasury securities. On April 25, 2012, the latest date reported, the Fed owned five and a half time that much in U.S. Treasury securities--$1.668 trillion.

That is an increase from January 2009 of $1.366 trillion—or 452 percent.

Under Obama, the Federal Reserve has become the single largest owner of U.S. government debt. When Obama entered office, entities in the People’s Republic of China were the largest holders, followed by entities in Japan. At the end of January 2009, China owned $739.6 billion in U.S. government debt and Japan owned $634.8 billion.

By the end of March 2012, China’s holdings of U.S. debt had grown to $1.1699 trillion and Japan’s holdings had grown to $1.083 trillion.

Together, the Federal Reserve, China and Japan had increased their holdings of U.S. debt by $2.2445 trillion since Obama took office.