If god was proven, then what?

Why is the 'whole plan of God' available to some, and not to others?

If God is what is claimed to him, it would be impossible for any mortal to understand. Are you stating you are immortal and part God's 'army' so to speak?

Id guess no, which leaves us back where we started. If you don't know the whole of God's plan, you cannot use it as an evocation.

Edit to add: If you cannot prove without a doubt, the existence of this God, then any 'word' attributed to him is sketchy at best. This is too easily opened up to "I know you don't understand NOW, but God will reveal it to you later." How can you POSSIBLY know what God will do and when?

This type of thinking is summed up best in this photo I saw yesterday.

Originally posted by TheSaddenedElf

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

In my viewpoint. I believe people would instantly act different. Many would turn to become good, so to speak. I believe he did this by design, so that all could be tested. If he was here for everyone to see, how could he properly test?

Can you please explain what you mean by, "become good"? Do you mean more people would be kinder and act with greater compassion?

As an atheist, I get somewhat irritated when people imply that you need to be a believer to have morals. I don't need to believe in a supreme being to treat people with kindness and respect, or lend a helping hand to someone in need. I can give support to those less fortunate than myself without fear of repercussions from a god-entity.

I mean no disrespect to you or your beliefs, and if I misinterpreted your post, I am sorry.

No, you don't have to believe in God to be good at all. I am saying, as a collective, things would be different. Let me use an example. When you were a kid, you acted out in school because your parent wasn't around. But, when your parent showed up, you immediately held self accountable to said actions. This is just one example, of many. Of course, there are kids who will act out either way. Just as the others decided to go below to follow the one not spoken of.

Of course, as any will confirm. Seeing something out of this world, the world wouldn't be business as usual anymore. Believer or non-believer.

Originally posted by Daemonicon
Why is the 'whole plan of God' available to some, and not to others?

If God is what is claimed to him, it would be impossible for any mortal to understand. Are you stating you are immortal and part God's 'army' so to speak?

Id guess no, which leaves us back where we started. If you don't know the whole of God's plan, you cannot use it as an evocation.

Edit to add: If you cannot prove without a doubt, the existence of this God, then any 'word' attributed to him is sketchy at best. This is too easily opened up to "I know you don't understand NOW, but God will reveal it to you later." How can you POSSIBLY know what God will do and when?

edit on 8-6-2012 by Daemonicon because: (no reason given)

This type of thinking is summed up best in this photo I saw yesterday.

edit on 8-6-2012 by Daemonicon because: (no reason given)

Very interesting. Man has given attributes to Father, when many are not true. Religion is mans view of God. Surely, not truly what is. Some will use the Bible to back up what they say, but the bible has many flaws. Many things were those of the thoughts of man, and what was given was not written when it was told of them.

Originally posted by tkwasny
Then everyone is forced into behavior like automatons. (Who would dare ensure their own eternal destruction!) TRUE LOVE can ONLY exist when there is free will to choose to either love, to hate, or not pay attention.

edit on 8-6-2012 by tkwasny because: Addition

Exactly, why Father designed it this way to ensure who is who, if that makes sense.

reply to post by jhill76


So, are you saying that you believe the Bible is not an actual account or the words of God himself? If thats the case, then how does anyone know anything about said God? Since its only the Bible that has any account of God in it

** By bible i use the term colloquially for 'God like Book' so this could be any of the holy books from various religions across the world **

Originally posted by EddyR3
reply to post by jhill76

 

So, are you saying that you believe the Bible is not an actual account or the words of God himself? If thats the case, then how does anyone know anything about said God? Since its only the Bible that has any account of God in it

** By bible i use the term colloquially for 'God like Book' so this could be any of the holy books from various religions across the world **

Jesus words were of truth, yes. But, he always said my Father when speaking of God. He never talked about the details of how he thinks, ponders, interacts in detail.

Many things in the bible are not accurate in which the events played out. Many things were the thoughts of the writer. This is why it is important to seek God out directly than just through words.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
God would have a LOT of explaining to do.

I'm serious.

Then seek god within and ask god. God do have pretty good explanations on what is going on when you look at everything from gods perspective and what god is achiving with this planet. To tell you the thruth questioning is the best way to get answer and understanding. Lets hope you can get god to stop playing hide and seek with you.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by smyleegrl
God would have a LOT of explaining to do.

I'm serious.

Then seek god within and ask god. God do have pretty good explanations on what is going on when you look at everything from gods perspective and what god is achiving with this planet. To tell you the thruth questioning is the best way to get answer and understanding. Lets hope you can get god to stop playing hide and seek with you.

So very true. Many think from man's perspective and cant comprehend how Father thinks on these situations. Even the angels above, can't fully comprehend how Father makes his decisions.

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

Well i would accept that god is real, if it was proven. But, I wouldn't change the way i act. If given the opportunity, i would tell god what a piece of sh** he is, and to look out because I'm coming for his job.

edit on 7-6-2012 by TheCelestialHuman because: (no reason given)

From my point of view you are kinda doing exactly what god wants. You are angry at the things that are going on around you and dislike the version of god you have been conditioned to belive god is. Go for the highest ideals you can think of loving yourself and others within reason and you cannot go wrong no matter what the bible says. The bible contains much spiritual knowledge but should from my point of view be read when you have a clear understanding of the nature of god you are supposed to understand. Jesus message makes more sense then.

Above is a suggestion and you are free to do as you like.

Given that evolution is fully backed up by objective evidence (DNA analysis, fossil record, migratory trends, application in modern medicine to accurately predict future outcomes, etc.) while there is ZERO objective evidence proving the existence of a creator...

...well...

I would be BLOWN AWAY!

Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

Which God?

If you're talking about the Christian God, then I'd end up burning in hell for an eternity for not accepting Jesus Christ as my savior.

Hell is for me being disconneted from your enviroment/god (feeling alone). Why would somebody send somebody to burn forever? What is the point to have you hurt for eternity? Would you learn something from burning for a long period of time or would you just go crazy from the pain? Seems like a thing a devil would do not a loving creator who want's you to grow, understand and evolve.

Makes no sense to do this and the evolved spirits would never stand for it and cry out that god was not following the highest ideals. God has a very big weakness and that is that god has to work for the good of all that exists.

One other thing if Jesus is what I think he was then he would not abandon me for not saying hís name. Seems to be a bit of egopride if he did abandon me. Almost unenlightened. The bible strikes again. A devine nonduality message filled with unholy duality filled messages. Kinda hard getting the message when it seems to come from 2 different sources. Both Christ and AntiChrist at the same time. No wonder people have a hard time finding the connection within.

This whole business of "if God could be proven to be real ..." then what?

The sad fact of the matter is its already happened and the results are all around us. The very reason for our existence is because of this. If people knew without a shadow of a doubt God was real, I can assure you a good portion will still choose to ignore, disbelieve and or otherwise rebel against it.

Why?

Because its already happened before. Here we are debating the existence of God, when Lucifer and the angels lived with God. Yet fully knowing of His existence CHOSE to hate Him. You think man will be any different?
This is the very reason we are here. Forget what you see, its been tried, and it failed. God seeing this and no doubt perplexed by the very fact that created beings with free will could very well make choices of their own. He could see a two fold problem. One, free will. And two, those created wanting to be like Him. Thus our reason for being created. God has chosen faith instead of ANYTHING involving our senses or intellect as a means of sorting out those who will face their temptations and trials NOW so as to find the true nature of their free will.

Remember all created beings have free will. God needs to know who of His creation CHOOSES to believe in Him NOW. But why?
Because before everything was perfect. Then sin came into one of Gods created beings, through that beings ability to freely choose. It spread and infected one third of His created angels. We have sin present with us also, just as Lucifer does (who could have repented of his own free will) but chose to rebel. Just like Lucifer we are in the same position. God wants His created beings to choose Him, WHILST in sin. This is VERY important.
Every friend of God, according to scripture, were simply men who had great faith in God. No magic formula, no special skill set, just a being willing to simply believe in Him. For this they were known as friends of God. God takes great delight in those who simply choose to believe. It is a matter of the heart. This is what frustrates the intellectual. This is by Gods design. NOTHING but the heart will do. For it shows God right from the get go your willingness to abide by His rules. It gets to the very nature of your soul. In one foul swoop you show God your soul. He doesn't control your free will. Amazing isn't it. He created you, but the ability to choose is yours and yours alone. Its Gods fool proof plan to see all of his created beings (just like the angels) who is for Him, and who is against Him. YOU choose.

They saw God in the flesh with their own eyes. The miracles, you name it and STILL it came down to choice. The angels seen Him too and again it came down to choice. God proven won't make a difference. I can guarantee if you did prove His existence you'd find many who'd still choose their own way. From the angels before us, to those who witnessed the Christ. No proof will do. God has designed a fool proof plan to sort out those who truly belong to Him. All they have to do is choose. Right to their very soul ...

If a deity was proven. I would focus my time on trying to understand its nature and its desires for life, humanity, and myself personally.

If it was a deity that is spoken about in the bible, I would find out the technicals required to enter into heaven..not because that is in my nature, but because its basically someone pointing a gun in your face and telling you to kneel..so, you kneel verses get shot.

But lacking any direction, I don't suspect there would be much change in my life given I feel I am the best person I can be for myself already...so ya..if its a small detail oriented deity, then you do the handing over of the wallet and listen to the guy with the gun..otherwise, continue being my own person.


I live my life to where I can look in the mirror and feel good about the reflection I give off...

-mirrors are in peoples eyes, not in glass-

Originally posted by loglady

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
I'm a guy who is 50/50 on the whole god thing. I wish 100% I could be proven that a god exists but in reality a god just doesn't make sense in the whole grand scheme of things. More and more it seems we have all been deceived by false prophets claiming to be a god so we would worship them and give them what they want. Regardless though...having a god would be the best thing for humanity. 100% proof of no god would be the end of our demise.

100% proof of no god would be the end of our demise........and the start of our incline ?
I totally agree with you, it would be the start of a beautiful new Dawn of reason, harmony and intelligence.........

But to be honest I don't think that's what you ment was it?

It's impossible to prove a negative (such as there is no God, or there is no whatever), so that can never, ever happen.... that's why theology still strives throughout human existance

Originally posted by sonnny1
Good,God
Evil,Devil

We play name games,with things unproven. It all boils down to Faith.

I always find it Ironic,that those in ancient days,that spoke to God,were prophets.
Nowadays,People who speak to God,are called, crazy.

You forgot Dog and Lived

Originally posted by Stagea
Because its already happened before. Here we are debating the existence of God, when Lucifer and the angels lived with God. Yet fully knowing of His existence CHOSE to hate Him. You think man will be any different?

There are soo many flaws with your argument.
1) if God is a perfect creator, why does everything he creates break and fail? I think that makes him one of the worst creators ever and would probably be fired from even a mediocre company.

2) Did all angels rebel?

3) If the beings that literally seen, heard, and watched this deity decided it was a good idea to rebel, then it sort of suggests not all things in the kingdom are rosey...to risk eternal torture and damnation, yet 1/3rd of heaven stood up and said, enough is enough. Perhaps that deity is an incredible tyrant to all life verses a all loving merciful deity? I think if Yehweh is a real deity, then my judgement towards my feelings of him is very much neutral...will want to hear his side of the story to account for his actions against humanity. Would also like to have a chat with both a fallen angel and a non-fallen angel to see the different sides of the argument.

Well, no matter which one happens, today's evangelical fundamentalists (not actual christians, they are very, VERY different) are SCREWED!!! If there is no God, they've wasted a lot of time. If there is a God, they're going to have to answer to him for the things they did, claiming them to be in his name and he's NOT going to be happy about it!
so, regardless of the outcome, it'll be fun to watch those self-righteous, bigoted, egostitical, ignorant hypocrits get what's coming to them

Originally posted by Tbrooks76
Its ok and I don't care if you all think I'm crazy.

I will tell you all something personal, and why I ask this question...
I was an agnostic years ago, and something did happen to me so incredible, that it prove to myself there was a God. I'm not going to get into what that was, it's personal, but I had the event, that I'm asking you what you do if happen to you. It was something that really change the way I think about things. No drugs no drinking, I was driving down the road when I seen this event that can only be discribe as supernatural happen right in front, and no other cars around at the time.

edit on 7-6-2012 by Tbrooks76 because: (no reason given)

People are only allowed proof for themselves if I understand the mechanics correctly. If you have not listened to chakra meditation sounds (for instance on youtube) or other frequeancy sounds then try it. If it works then you will feel something after a while. If not then you only have wasted the time it took to listen to them. Only listen if it feels ok and do not force yourself. This biological machine is increadable and scensory perception you can achive is so much more than I understood.

Welcome to the club of the crazy ones. We do not seem to be alone.
Gnarls Barkley - Crazy LYRICS

Originally posted by jhill76
Let me use an example. When you were a kid, you acted out in school because your parent wasn't around. But, when your parent showed up, you immediately held self accountable to said actions. This is just one example, of many.

You know whats cool...is when kids don't need a parent to punish them, but instead stop acting out due to it hurting others..

I didn't get into much trouble as a kid. I didn't like making other people feel bad, and by me acting out, chances are, someone is going to get hurt or sad from my actions..and that made me feel bad inside..not fear of punishment, but being upset with what I did made me become a better person.

God is not necessary for me to be as good as I can be..to some, maybe..but then they aren't being as good as they can be because its in their heart..they are being false just to avoid punishment and get a payment...

Does a deity want heart or obedience...they aren't always the same.

Originally posted by CallYourBluff
ATS would try and debunk it.

Star for this~! LOL

So true, but, try and debunk God's wisdom in a personal 1-on-1 with him we'll all fail, I assure you!