Blatant voter-suppression tactics at work in Wisconsin

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Annee

 

And I've followed the voter fraud for quite a while. Guess what? There are dead Republicans too.

And more and more intense voter fraud is amongst Republicans not Democrats.

Superlative!

Everyone advocating Voter ID insists it should apply across the board.

Please explain the "progressive" opposition to party-neutral voter ID.

deny ignorance

jw

Personally I think everyone should show a photo ID and a voters registration card to vote. If you are too sick to get a photo ID then how the hell can that same person go down and vote? If a person doesn't have a drivers license or other official ID then the state should issue a free Voters photo ID.
It is that simple people...

I remember back in Arkansas people were driving busses around picking up the homeless and anyone else they could and giving them a 5 dollar bill to vote. They said they were just providing the means for them to execute their right to vote. I saw it as a way to get the votes one wants, and it would not have been too hard to drive the same people to many different voting areas all using different voter registration cards since ID is not required.

BTW this was the Left doing this and it seems they are the ones most against any kind of photo ID to vote. They suggest it will prevent the poor from voting.....but we all know that if you have the physical capability to vote you also have the physical capability to get an ID too.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
The unions didn't come close to spending the amount that poured into Walker's campaign, most of it from out-of-state sources;

Breitbart has a rebuttal.

They are showing that the Unions spent $21 million in Wisc.

The chart is showing "Money Raised"

How about "Money Spent" ?

Overall, over $63.5 million was spent on the recall effort by various parties. Walker spent about $30 million; Barrett spent about $4 million. Most of the money spent by Walker came from out-of-state sources – The Republican Governors Association spent about $4 million, almost all from out-of-state; the Kochs gave $1 million; the Chamber of Commerce gave $500,000. On the surface, then, it appears that Walker had a tremendous cash advantage.

Not so fast. As it turns out, labor unions spent an additional $21 million on the recall election. When it came to state senate recall elections back in September 2011, Democrats outspent Republicans $23.4 million to $20.5 million.

Spending Gap? Media Ignores $21 Million Unions Spent in WI

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Personally I think everyone should show a photo ID and a voters registration card to vote.

So do I. Except: there are still people born in the US that never had a birth certificate. How do you solve that?

If you are too sick to get a photo ID then how the hell can that same person go down and vote? If a person doesn't have a drivers license or other official ID then the state should issue a free Voters photo ID.
It is that simple people...

I agree. There are programs for everything else. If voter ID was required - - a program would be set up to go to people's homes to photograph them and a way to vote. A special hotline could be set up for call in votes. And with modern technology - - an ID card could be made on the spot.

I remember back in Arkansas people were driving busses around picking up the homeless and anyone else they could and giving them a 5 dollar bill to vote.

That happens every where. And both Right and Left do it.

George Washington bribed with booze:

Even the father of our country, George Washington, was known to bribe the electorate with booze. In his recent book Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition, Daniel Okrent writes: “When twenty-four-year-old George Washington first ran for a seat in the Virginia House of Burgesses, he attributed his defeat to his failure to provide enough alcohol for the voters. When he tried again two years later, Washington floated into office partly on the 144 gallons of rum, punch, hard cider and beer his election agent handed out—roughly half a gallon for every vote he received.” blogs.smithsonianmag.com...

Who spent what:

A record amount of money spent on Wisconsin recall

The top outside groups for Walker were:

• Right Direction Wisconsin, created by the Republican Governor's Association (RGA), which gave $8.7 million.
• Billionaire David Koch, one of the main backers of Americans for Prosperity. He gave $1 million to the RGA.
• Americans For Prosperity (AFP), a conservative group linked to David and his brother Charles Koch, spent $3 million. Tim Phillips, president of Americans for prosperity told CBS News that beyond airing ads, his group sent 75 trained staffers into Wisconsin to knock on doors for Walker.
  
  "They're on their way back to states like Florida and Michigan and Colorado and Ohio, and they're going to keep doing the same grassroots work, educating folks on President Obama's disastrous economic record and what folks can do about it," Phillips said in an interview.
  
  "I think it was genuinely a big test case for can you take on the biggest special interest group - government unions - in one of their core states, Wisconsin, and win with a free market message? And Governor Walker proved that you can," he said.
  
  In addition, AFP spent $7 million promoting Walker's agenda last year, launching an ad campaign just two days after the governor introduced legislation ending collective bargaining for public unions.
• Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce (affiliated with the Chamber of Commerce), spent $2 million for Walker.
• The anti-union Center for Union Facts spent $1 million, the National Rifle Association spent $800,000, and the Tea Party Express spent $400,000.

The top outside groups for Barrett was

• Greater Wisconsin Political Expenditure Fund, which is a consortium of Democratic Party groups, which spent a combined $7.3 million.
• AFSCME, the union that represents government workers, spent at least $4.3 million, while the AFL-CIO raised $1.25 million and the teachers union, the NEA, spent $1.1 million. The SEIU spent $920,000.

Here's an opinion I saw somewhere.

Unions get money from members, hire hundreds of political operatives and give them salaries to work on campaigns, then call them “volunteers” so their work isn’t reported as a campaign contribution.

tricky sneaky

Originally posted by Annee
So do I. Except: there are still people born in the US that never had a birth certificate. How do you solve that?

They never got a SS number, never went to a public school, never established a residency, never owned property, never drove a vehicle? Etc etc....

I think the bigger question would be why would they want to vote in the first place? At some point we need to establish citizenship and establish you are who say you are.

That happens every where. And both Right and Left do it.

I agree but it make me wonder about those who want to fight this tooth and nail, and I think we are beyond the point that we should worry about someone born and lives in some backwaters place where they have zero proof of anything. Remember, only about 35% actually do vote so if a person really feels it is their right to vote they should do all that is necessary to do it.

If you can fill out a voters registration card you can fill out a photo ID card.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Here's an opinion I saw somewhere.

Unions get money from members, hire hundreds of political operatives and give them salaries to work on campaigns, then call them “volunteers” so their work isn’t reported as a campaign contribution.

tricky sneaky

You know all those large SHAME ON... signs you see in front of businesses with a group of people protesting? Well they are being paid by the unions to do that. The unions could dump 21 million into a campaign in ways no one needs to account for it. To say the union only supported a couple of million as was reported is crazy to think that is all they did and didn't invest huge sums.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You pay taxes.

Your name is on the rolls.

Why should you have to show an ID?

Voter ID voter ID voter ID how crazy is that. Picture ID required to pretty much exist. If you don't want to exist why bother to vote. Republicans like it because " Dead Men and criminals Don't Vote" Dem hate it because "Thats our voter base"

reply to post by Xtrozero


Both of you are very wrong here.

The unions you are thinking of are those with the money to hire lobbyists.

Most unions around here are small and do not have the political clout of their national chapters.

Even so, don't you think it's stupid for the Governor to go after the unions when he should be thinking about creating jobs, balancing costs and you know, actually doing something for the people of his state?

Originally posted by mikellmikell
Voter ID voter ID voter ID how crazy is that. Picture ID required to pretty much exist. If you don't want to exist why bother to vote. Republicans like it because " Dead Men and criminals Don't Vote" Dem hate it because "Thats our voter base"

Again - - there are still many people who do not have birth certificates.

How do you solve the problem of proving their citizenship?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee
So do I. Except: there are still people born in the US that never had a birth certificate. How do you solve that?

They never got a SS number, never went to a public school, never established a residency, never owned property, never drove a vehicle? Etc etc....

It is a situation that was discussed on Talk Radio.

Some elderly - especially in the south never had a birth certificate. How do you prove their citizenship?

And they may never have had a SS card. Are you saying school records and home ownership proves citizenship?

In the hippie anti-establishment years - - there were births that never had a birth certificate.

You tell me how to solve this problem.

reply to post by Annee


Personally, I think that the only reason that voter ID laws exist is because the people who pass them do so under the guise of profiling immigrants, especially those that are illegal.

That's the only reason why these laws exist.

reply to post by Annee


Passport birth certificate exceptions;

Question: How Can I Apply for a Passport if I Don't Have a U.S. Birth Certificate?
Answer: The U.S. government prefers to issue American passports only to U.S. citizens. You need to prove your citizenship during the passport application process, normally with a U.S. birth certificate. Getting an American passport without a U.S. birth certificate is not impossible, though. The following information comes directly from the U.S. Department of State.

What You Will Need if You do Not Have a Certified Birth Certificate

1. Letter of No Record

Issued by the State including your name, date of birth, which years were searched for a birth record and (the fact) that there is no birth certificate on file for you.

Call the government of the state in which you were born - an online search of that state's website will give you the telephone number for the Department of Vital Records.


2. As many of the following as possible:

Baptismal certificate
Hospital birth certificate
Census record
Early school record
Family bible record
Doctor's record of post-natal care

These documents must be early public records showing the date and place of your birth, preferably created within the first five years of your life.

You may also submit an Affidavit of Birth form DS-10 from an older blood relative, i.e.: a parent, aunt, uncle or sibling who has "personal knowledge" of your birth. It must be notarized or show the seal and signature of the acceptance agent.


Born Abroad to US Parents
If you were born abroad and do not have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certificate of Birth on file, the Department of State has these instructions:

1. If you claim citizenship through birth abroad to one U.S. citizen parent, you will need:

Foreign birth certificate
Proof of citizenship of your U.S. citizen parent
An affidavit of your U.S. citizen parent showing all periods and places of residence or physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth

2. If you claim citizenship through birth abroad to two U.S. citizen parents, you will need:

Your foreign birth certificate
Parent's marriage certificate
Proof of citizenship of your U.S. parents and an affidavit of your U.S. citizen parents showing all periods and places of residence of physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth

What is *Not* Proof of Citizenship?

Voter registration cards
Army discharge papers

How Can I Apply for a Passport if I Don't Have a U.S. Birth Certificate?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee
So do I. Except: there are still people born in the US that never had a birth certificate. How do you solve that?

They never got a SS number, never went to a public school, never established a residency, never owned property, never drove a vehicle? Etc etc....

It is a situation that was discussed on Talk Radio.

Some elderly - especially in the south never had a birth certificate. How do you prove their citizenship?

And they may never have had a SS card. Are you saying school records and home ownership proves citizenship?

In the hippie anti-establishment years - - there were births that never had a birth certificate.

You tell me how to solve this problem.

Are you saying this is a new pheonomia? Are you saying the local and state officials have never had to deal with this?
That no one ever thought of ways to deal with our back woods living folks? No one thought of questioning other family members, relatives?
This isn't the gigantic problem you're making it out to be. You tell me how you would solve this problem.
Me, I'd have taken care of it a long time ago if an elderly family member wanted an ID.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Annee

 

Personally, I think that the only reason that voter ID laws exist is because the people who pass them do so under the guise of profiling immigrants, especially those that are illegal.

That's the only reason why these laws exist.

Probably.

But there's far more intentional voter fraud and manipulation from the Right then there is the Left.

I was a registered Republican. I joined a no holds barred political forum in about 1998 - - which I participated in for about 10 years. I learned a LOT in those 10 years. There are no Republicans today - - there are only Right Wing Neo-Cons. When I finally left the forum - - - I was in complete opposition to the Neo-Cons. They're just insane.

So IMO - - - if everyone had a voter ID card - - - it would actually benefit those leaning more left.

But until all citizens have one - - it should not be required.

Originally posted by sweetliberty

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee
So do I. Except: there are still people born in the US that never had a birth certificate. How do you solve that?

They never got a SS number, never went to a public school, never established a residency, never owned property, never drove a vehicle? Etc etc....

It is a situation that was discussed on Talk Radio.

Some elderly - especially in the south never had a birth certificate. How do you prove their citizenship?

And they may never have had a SS card. Are you saying school records and home ownership proves citizenship?

In the hippie anti-establishment years - - there were births that never had a birth certificate.

You tell me how to solve this problem.

Are you saying this is a new pheonomia? Are you saying the local and state officials have never had to deal with this?

Where did I say or indicate this was a new problem.

That no one ever thought of ways to deal with our back woods living folks? No one thought of questioning other family members, relatives?

No family member - no relatives - no living friends - - that witnessed the birth.

Now what.

This isn't the gigantic problem you're making it out to be.

Apparently it is for those who have this problem.

You tell me how you would solve this problem.

Don't turn this on me.

You solve the problem.

Originally posted by xuenchen

2. As many of the following as possible:

Baptismal certificate
Hospital birth certificate
Census record
Early school record
Family bible record
Doctor's record of post-natal care

These documents must be early public records showing the date and place of your birth, preferably created within the first five years of your life.

The women who was the subject of the Talk Radio Show was 90 years old. Born in the deep south of illiterate black share croppers.

Documentations? LOL

I'm sure something legal could be done. But - she's voted all these years without having to prove what may be impossible to prove.

Again - - until ALL voters have voter ID - - - not one citizen such as this 90 year old women will be disenfranchised.

reply to post by Annee


So you heard something on the radio that's "apparently" a problem and you're asked the very questions you ask but you have nothing to prove there is a problem in the first place.
I already said what I would have done in the last post.
Have you called any local or state agencies inquiring about this?

As for who is more guilty in voter suppression, fraud... I personally don't care which party is worse as long as we continue to tackle the problem and expose the criminals. Its an on going problem and certainly needs a whole lot of changes but why stall at first base? Why are you making a case of which party is more guilty? How does that help?
There needs to be changes in the voter system, I agree but this is what we have for now so how is showing an ID unreasonable?
Eta: in other words, which would you prefer? No ID required whatsoever or ID required?

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Annee

 

And I've followed the voter fraud for quite a while. Guess what? There are dead Republicans too.

And more and more intense voter fraud is amongst Republicans not Democrats.

Superlative!

Everyone advocating Voter ID insists it should apply across the board.

Please explain the "progressive" opposition to party-neutral voter ID.

deny ignorance

jw

There is no "progressive opposition to party neutral voter ID."
What there is is progressive opposition to the steps required to get that voter ID.
Change the steps and the argument is over.