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Was Jesus a Greek-Phoenician Philosopher? A hidden book, revealed…

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posted on May, 28 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Interesting thread. I know very little about religion, but am fascinated by the origins of the religions we have today. There is so much that we dont know about our own history, when the powerful are capable of rewriting that history.




posted on May, 28 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by RedAmnesia
 

As interesting as it would be to have an English version of the book you read, I was referring to the Phoenician Byblos. Do they have original manuscripts that pre-date Moses? Can they show that Moses could have indeed based his theology on the writings stolen from Phoenicia at the time?

Saying it in the book you read, and being able to back their claim with evidence, are two different animals. But you've most certainly piqued my interest.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


It 's very difficult to find out if other books here can answer your inquiry, and I'm reading the books very slowly to understand. The Library is full of interesting books but they are not sorted properly and it's been like that since the end of Civil War in 1990. I'm going back there again tomorrow, if you guys need any specific questions about the same book, I can search in it and get more info, the best I can do is take pictures on my mobile and post them here if they don't catch me. But I'm not sure if you guys will understand as this language is still common only within the Middle-East priests &monks since they still say a few words of Aramaic during the Arabic mass.

One thing that caught my attention in the book, because it was written during the era of the Abbassides empire, is that the sultan Harun ar-Rashid who owned the biggest library in the world at that time was a firm defender of the Maronites living in the Lebanese mountains, he used to protect them at that time, and that he used to trade with them secret books of knowledge mainly related to religion and history and he translated more than 500 books & manuscript from Phoenician& Greek to Arabic.

edit on 28/10/2008 by RedAmnesia because: typing mistake



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


Unfortunately i doubt the original manuscript still exists anywhere. Therefore comparing the original Byblos manuscript with even the earliest surviving bibles is tantamount to impossible.

So, instead, we are left with a debate about a book written hundreds of years after the event (as it were). In any other context, this would be deemed as unreliable (at best) and yet, for some reason, as it is religion many take the word of the bible gospel.

To me at least (as a history buff) this makes the writings of the bible little more than allegory. That view would change (as a history buff) if, say, a bible was found from the first century AD........basically, it is all about evidence and context.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by littlecloud
Funny that the man from tyr came to be known as zeno, zeno (written xeno) in greek means foreign so thats atleast one point that is most likely true. This is extremely interesting, greece has definately birthed a good amount of philosophers.

reply to post by UnlimitedSky
 


.

If the real history of Jesus was found it would have a phenomenal effect on the lives of millions of people for better or worse, even if it doesn't effect you it still has the potential to effect someone else. I personally believe that many people are blinded from religion that has been perverted over the years and this could reverse that. still not worth it?


1. If the real history of Jesus was found, nobody would know it.

2. Or believe it.

3. Or be able to prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

4. Therefore, it will probably not be believed or utilised to effect anybody.

5. Religion is a fantasy, based on the devine power that impressed man deeply, when it came to the world through the sons of God. Unfortunately man created religions in their names and forgot the true teachings.

The past does not exist,
The future is unknown,
the present is a gift.

Look in the now.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Klassified
 


Unfortunately i doubt the original manuscript still exists anywhere. Therefore comparing the original Byblos manuscript with even the earliest surviving bibles is tantamount to impossible.

So, instead, we are left with a debate about a book written hundreds of years after the event (as it were). In any other context, this would be deemed as unreliable (at best) and yet, for some reason, as it is religion many take the word of the bible gospel.

To me at least (as a history buff) this makes the writings of the bible little more than allegory. That view would change (as a history buff) if, say, a bible was found from the first century AD........basically, it is all about evidence and context.


Unfortunately, I think you're right.

It's interesting to note though, that the book of Jasher(mentioned in the Christian bible) says Moses was a King over the land of Cush for 40 years, and a bit of a conqueror who waged war against the children of Aram. And that the OP's book mentions something similar.


Moses was a conqueror and invaded the Phoenician lands of Canaan.

This is partly what piqued my interest.
edit on 5/28/2012 by Klassified because: Correction for censors

edit on 5/28/2012 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by RedAmnesia
 


I understand what you're saying. I appreciate that you brought this to us at all. If you run across any other references to Moses, and the differences between his text and theirs, it would be interesting.

For that matter, anything you feel like sharing from it would be awesome. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

S&F BTW.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by RedAmnesia
 


Excellent post! Starred and flagged. I do so envy you, being able to peruse that library and able to read in the given language. So cool.

I do have a question though......



And Melchizedek was the other person, it is said that he was a mentor of the young Jesus.
Melchizedek


How could this be? Wasn't Melchizedek around when Abraham was alive? How could he have been a mentor to a young Jesus, 1000's of years later?



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by UnlimitedSky
 





1. If the real history of Jesus was found, nobody would know it. 2. Or believe it. 3. Or be able to prove it without a shadow of a doubt. 4. Therefore, it will probably not be believed or utilised to effect anybody. 5. Religion is a fantasy, based on the devine power that impressed man deeply, when it came to the world through the sons of God. Unfortunately man created religions in their names and forgot the true teachings. The past does not exist, The future is unknown, the present is a gift. Look in the now.


If the real history of jesus was found noone would know it or believe it you say?
Uh... im innocent, but everyone thinks im guilty. Noone is going to believe me so may as well say im guilty, oh well.
Seriously?

Yes live in the now, but finding out the past is not hiding from the present its helping you UNDERSTAND it. The future is a gift, but are you going to read the manual? Thats the past.

Silly new agers.

Im sure at the start of all these little conspiracy theories people thought noone would believe them, but they tried anyway. Look at how much knowledge has progressed, its definately worth the risk of wasted time.
edit on 28-5-2012 by littlecloud because: added quote



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


From the same link of Melchizedek that I provided, here's a quote that can answer your question:




In Nag Hammadi Library: A collection of early Gnostic scripts dating on or before the 4th-century, discovered in 1945 and known as the Nag Hammadi Library, contains a tractate pertaining to Melchizedek. Here it is proposed that Melchizedek is Jesus Christ.[72] Melchizedek, as Jesus Christ, lives, preaches, dies and is resurrected, in a gnostic perspective. The Coming of the Son of God Melchizedek speaks of his return to bring peace, supported by the gods, and he is a priest-king who dispenses justice.[73]



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100
Frankly, just another man who thinks that Jesus wasn't who He claimed to be.
Just another man, like millions today, who believes that Jews are the "chosen people" of God.
Just another man, like millions today, that thinks Judaism is the religion of the Bible.
Just another man, like millions today, that cannot believe that God directly intervened into the life of mankind.
Just another man, like millions today, that believes that God has no power to direct the words in holy scripture.
Just another man, like millions today, who think men are sovereign to God.
Just another man, like millions today, that reject the Saviour.

There are no differences. You either have Faith or you don't. He didn't.




Jesus wouldn't star this post haha. If you really have faith, then it doesn't matter who Jesus was.
He IS. I AM. It's all good brother.

I have met up with this Jesus guy. He didn't exactly look Jewish. He maybe did look greekish.. A little hard to remember, but he did look almost exactly like the shroud of Turin, which I only found after the fact. He taught me a few things, and the main thing he taught me, was that we are all God. Jesus would not like you judging others. I am not christian never have been, so why would Jesus show up, and tell me I was to be enlightened and had no choice? Why would he help me, when I rejected him?

It doesn't matter if you are christian, or really what you believe. The truth will still happen anyway.

Be good, and help others as you would like to be helped...
Hang out with homeless people and feed them, as you would like to be fed...
Put goodness in your brothers/sisters hearts, as you would like to feel in yours...
make good fruits with your labor, as you would like to see in the world...

Jesus cares more on the above, than your belief in him... As if he could be so shallow...


To Littlecloud: I enjoyed your posts in this thread. Just wanted to say you were right, and the only thing that can give you power is knowledge. knowledge of how we got here, can be reversed to knowledge of how we get out. I completely agree with your assesment of this concept. "Don't learn things no one will believe it." lol... Some will, and they will be the first out of the gate. It's no race though, the unlearners of history will get out in their own time as well... hahaha


~Dusty

edit on 5/28/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Your original post makes it sound like the Jews only knew about God through the words of Moses.

Not the case, as the Jews heard God speak for themselves at the time that Moses went up the mount to retrieve the ten commandments. Moses may have witnessed the fire, but the rest of them all heard God speak from the base of the mount.

Deuteronomy 5:22-26


22) These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

23) And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

24) And ye said, Behold, the Lord our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

25) Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, then we shall die.

26) For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Interesting new twist to the tale.

It makes sense that the Phoenicians would have written the original bible, since we use their alphabet.

Byblos, Bible, kind of hard to not see a connection.

Who were these giants, and where did they come from originally?



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by RedAmnesia
 


Originally posted by RedAmnesia
I read a book written by the Maronite monk...

"I read a book written by the Maronite monk... "BINGO! LIES will destroy you. The second post, by WhoKnows100 said it SO well I almost did not reply. His post contains massive truth if you ever decide to actually SEE it.

A quote from another post I just finished:


Originally posted by Murgatroid
Once you learn how to discern the difference between truth and lies, everything begins to actually make perfect sense. There is a giant COVER-UP going on in the world of religion. It is a deception so vast that it has affected the judgment of millions of people using propaganda that has influenced every person on earth.Things are NOT what you THINK they are! (see sig line).

This post gives some links to books that actually contain TRUTH that will OPEN your eyes to reality.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


Do you mean the monk is lying?



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by RedAmnesia
Going back to my subject, I lately read a book written by the Maronite monk “Estefanos Sarkis el Khoury” , written by him in the year 827-828 AD in the midst of Islamic conquest of the Near-East and during times of persecution where the Maronites Monks of Lebanon use to live hiding in the grottos of the Lebanese Mountains.


Not calling you a liar, but you must understand we need to confirm the existence of the book you mentioned, otherwise your claim is not supported by evidence. Sorry, I know I'm not making it easy for you.

Also you said :


• Phoenicians reached south America


I would like to believe that, I actually never believed Columbus was the first to come to America, but again...no solid evidence was presented by you ( I do not mean it doesn't exist), it's just a theory meanwhile.

Mormons believe 2 of the tribes of Israel came to America in ancient times, also Jesus after the resurrection. They accept those ideas by faith, sadly no solid evidence yet.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Very interesting post and taking the religion/faith to one side:
- In Herodotus histories, he mentions that the Phoenicians sailed so far south that the sun came up from the opposite direction. This could only happen if they crossed the equator, so they were travellers all right.
- Jesus message is very much of love / karma and has a strong Indian influence. If you look at these messages from the bible - these were very novel to the Middle East. So it has been suggested that he may have travelled there
- There are also notable gaps in the diary (bible) of Jesus life, he could have been travelling

So some (admittedly weak) circumstantial evidence making this thread worth pursing



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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You say that according to this book, written in the 800's, the Phoenicians reached South America? How does he describe this? How do you know he was talking about South America?



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by RedAmnesia
 

Originally posted by RedAmnesia
Do you mean the monk is lying?


No... I mean EVERYONE is lying! (Generally speaking) Your quotes show evidence of truth mixed with lies which some would call "rat poison". We've been lied to since the beginning of TIME about EVERYTHING that matters! MOST mainstream media sources are part of a global propaganda operation that is older than civilization. If you DON'T understand this you will ALWAYS be decieved by lies. Always... Follow the links I gave. The subject you are studying is awesome, I have a collection of information pertaining to this myself (a few links below). But your sources will always be faulty as long as you are BLIND to the "sting" that is taking place as Howard Ratcliffe calls it. One question I have for you is this: do you understand the TRUE history of the Catholic church and false religions in general? If you do not, everything else will NOT make sense to you.

This video puts things into perspective:




"Well, evidences abound, and this is one. I should say that there could be many more at hand, but when they have been found by Darwinians, they have been ignored, hidden or simply destroyed. Destroyed by those who later on demand such evidence. An example of this is the "mysterious" disappearance of more than 50 perfectly kept gigantic antediluvian skeletons (between 10-14 feet tall) found in a cave in Arizona. You may, or not, have heard that Mr. Samuel Hubbard, discovered remains of giants in a cave in the magnificent Grand Canyon of Arizona." Source



"The Phoenicians were not confined to the Mediterranean and the Middle East. They landed in Britain around 3,000 BC and unmistakable Phoenician artifacts have been found in Brazil, as well as possible Egyptian remains in the Grand Canyon in America. The Phoenicians landed in the Americas thousands of years before the manufactured ‘photo opportunity’ better known as the journey of Christopher Columbus. The reason that the native legends of the Americas speak of tall ‘white gods’ coming from the sea bringing advanced knowledge is because that is precisely what happened, if you forget the gods bit. "

"...to understand what has happened in the United States we have to go back a very long time.
The Phoenicians landed there in ancient times and what appeared to be Egyptian (Phoenician) or Oriental remains were found in the Grand Canyon in the early years of this century, although the knowledge of this has been suppressed. The Biggest Secret ~ David Icke


The Smithsonian Institution is covering up an archaeological discovery of immense importance

Has there been an archaeological cover-up reminiscent of the last scene in the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark




edit on 28-5-2012 by Murgatroid because: Added link



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by RedAmnesia
 


Great OP, S&F's... I personally haven't spent all that much time as of late researching the origins of Jesus... but it was at one time something that weighed heavy on my mind.

I have concluded this myself:

The creation of the story of Jesus was a combination of historical inaccuracies, and applied philosophy. Then to realize that much of the rhetoric resembles a seemingly rehashed version of ancient greek philosophy. As well as many aspects of Jesus sharing similarities with greek mythology.

People deny the Dionysian connection to the death... but if they were to escape this nonsense, and actually open their eyes to the parallels, it becomes clearer that the voice that is of Jesus carries with it a very strong Greek Philosopher's notion... I would also argue that there is a somewhat Dionysian-Apollonian struggle aspect as to the story of Jesus itself.

Also... the idea that numbers and their meanings don't mean anything in the bible is a joke. Those who deny this are fools in my opinion... not that St. Augustine was the voice of Authority on the subject, but he had much to say about the topic, those that care to realize this can simply read his works.

Why do I bring up numbers?
I'm not going to rant on this thread... but yeah lol. They are the means in which we interpret reality... and how 'God' speaks to use, so there for... go build that house on a rock and know that you are the carpenters son, use a square and scale and construct some beautiful stuff.

Here's a link to a thread that I started a little while back:
The Truth Behind Numbers: Philosophy, Geometry, and Religion?
www.abovetopsecret.com...



The so-called Pythagoreans, who were the first to take up mathematics, not only advanced this subject, but saturated with it, they fancied that the principles of mathematics were the principles of all things. —Aristotle, Metaphysics 1–5 , cc. 350 BC


There is evidence that Plato possibly took from Pythagoras the idea that mathematics and, generally speaking, abstract thinking is a secure basis for philosophical thinking as well as "for substantial theses in science and morals".


Here's another link to a thread that I created in regards to the origins and story of Jesus, mostly in regards to a trip through India, which then has a very strong Dionysian parallel.

Jesus, Royal Family, and India! School For Scandal ?!?!?!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In which I can 100% accurately state the following....



This ties in BOTH Jesus and India, and... Jesus and Royal Family! And... was written in the later 18th century! Obviously waaay before 1894!


The Jesus - Royal family thing is a little weak, but the India and the 18th century vs 1894 finding I made is some awesome stuff.

Jesus and India, what an epic conspiracy lol.... yet an adopted story line... just as his derivatives. One quality changes in response to another, and the story remains at balance... the mathematics of linguistics and the art of story telling in the pursuit of spreading ideals or information. how fun lol.



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