We are (nearly) all Believers!!!

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by StringTh

 

I didn't assume anyone was here to mess with people. There are people that like to debate others, I would not call them trolls. A troll is someone that says something to purely invoke an emotional reaction from you which they usually don't agree with themselves.

Atheism by definition is a lack of belief in a God, it is directly comparable to someone who doesn't believe in Aliens.

By no means I would call those people trolls. Debating is great and I love it. We are just doing it right now. Neither you are a troll nor am I. Trolls are for me those people that show no interest in this subject and derail the conversations, ridicule people, basically trying to make chaos.

That is the definition of atheism, but I told you about how it came to be. I was born into a deeply atheist family. Atheism was and still is the strongest force against our so-called books of gods. But atheists actually do believe in nature forces.

StringTh

I am a skeptic, unabashed and unafraid. Yet, from a very early age, this subject has fascinated me, endlessly. I am in love with it, even in my un-belief. Because I love the field, I am critical of it. And yes, I will be relentless with anyone I think is an embarrassment to it or hurting the cause. Skeptic or not, extraterrestrial visitors or not, I think this field has a lot to teach us about the world around us.

If you want to argue in favor of UFOs, don't you want to cite cases that you were unable to tear apart? That kind of skepticism is to imrove quality. Too many documentaries and presentations by famed ufologists include cases that have been convincingly debunked and have no place in trying to make the case.

Well I always take a skeptical stance, BUT I do believe.. I'll never forget that night taking out the garbage to the corner with my brother and what we both saw in the sky that night, it sure wasnt anything humans have developed thats what I do know.... I was 13 years old, and to this day every time and again my brother or I will say....." Hey remeber that night we saw that --" reply "Dude...I will never forget that night" and we both know what we are talking about.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by StringTh

 

I didn't assume anyone was here to mess with people. There are people that like to debate others, I would not call them trolls. A troll is someone that says something to purely invoke an emotional reaction from you which they usually don't agree with themselves.

Atheism by definition is a lack of belief in a God, it is directly comparable to someone who doesn't believe in Aliens.

Hi, sorry, but that is not a direct comparison. Belief in God is a matter of faith. Sentient ET life is not the same thing - there is proof or there is no proof.
I do not want to believe in sentient ET life, I want to know, there is a huge difference.

The Alien + UFOs forum appeals to a vast panopoly of humans and otherwise, including hardcase skeptics, moderate maybes, out-there dreamers, the contactees, those that have seen, those that have not, creative types, the bored, the desperate and all those I've missed out. What's not to like?

Originally posted by WingedBull
I am a skeptic, unabashed and unafraid. Yet, from a very early age, this subject has fascinated me, endlessly. I am in love with it, even in my un-belief. Because I love the field, I am critical of it. And yes, I will be relentless with anyone I think is an embarrassment to it or hurting the cause. Skeptic or not, extraterrestrial visitors or not, I think this field has a lot to teach us about the world around us.

I think me too that we can learn plenty from this subject. Your fascination tells me that you would love to come across the real deal and be wowed, but I also understand that this did not happen until now.

Thanks
StringTh

Originally posted by xpoq47
If you want to argue in favor of UFOs, don't you want to cite cases that you were unable to tear apart? That kind of skepticism is to imrove quality. Too many documentaries and presentations by famed ufologists include cases that have been convincingly debunked and have no place in trying to make the case.

If I came across as if I am trying to argue in favor of UFOs, then I must have expressed myself wrong. I am a skeptic, but would love to be proved wrong. I want to believe.

StringTh

Originally posted by Philosoulpher
Well I always take a skeptical stance, BUT I do believe.. I'll never forget that night taking out the garbage to the corner with my brother and what we both saw in the sky that night, it sure wasnt anything humans have developed thats what I do know.... I was 13 years old, and to this day every time and again my brother or I will say....." Hey remeber that night we saw that --" reply "Dude...I will never forget that night" and we both know what we are talking about.

Thanks for sharing. What did you guys see in the night sky? Interests me.

StringTh

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by StringTh

 

I didn't assume anyone was here to mess with people. There are people that like to debate others, I would not call them trolls. A troll is someone that says something to purely invoke an emotional reaction from you which they usually don't agree with themselves.

Atheism by definition is a lack of belief in a God, it is directly comparable to someone who doesn't believe in Aliens.

Hi, sorry, but that is not a direct comparison. Belief in God is a matter of faith. Sentient ET life is not the same thing - there is proof or there is no proof.
I do not want to believe in sentient ET life, I want to know, there is a huge difference.

Nicely put. Thanks for that. There are indeed differences between these two comparisons.

StringTh

Originally posted by jamdan
The Alien + UFOs forum appeals to a vast panopoly of humans and otherwise, including hardcase skeptics, moderate maybes, out-there dreamers, the contactees, those that have seen, those that have not, creative types, the bored, the desperate and all those I've missed out. What's not to like?

edit on 25-5-2012 by jamdan because: padding

I like them all, I just do not enjoy all these name callings/labelings.

Example:
A thread started from someone who believes strongly in UFO or Alien presents on earth, usually starts with people saying "oh I'm sure the debunkers will be here soon", then words like lens flare, swamp gas, lanterns...etc pop up just to be laughed at. This for me is wrong.

Even the other way around is wrong. Some of our skeptics are just purely rude and have no manners at all. Laughing at people for believing in things that they think is just wrong does not make it any better. Why do some skeptics insist to insult people's intelligence as soon they think they know the answer? It disgusts me to be honest.

You see for me both sides are ridiculing each other and that for me needs to be stopped in order to get from A to B.

Other than that I agree with you. I like them all. Skeptic or not.

StringTh

This thread smells fishy:

Originally posted by StringTh
The person that is in here without the slightest interest or curiosity in this subject, can only be either a dis-info agent or some sick troll with way too much time on his/her hands.

First you say this, which is chocked full of ad-hominem and insulting lables. Which you then follow up with:

Originally posted by StringTh
The difficulty is to know who really is a troll or less educated (I'm one of them) person. That's why it's best to leave those you think are trolls in their own world with no attention. Labeling has to stop.

Well, friend, it seems that you need to follow your own advice. Since you think that there are trolls in the world, trolls are a fictional character. If you are refering to a human who acts differently from you, well isn't that the behavior you are condemning?
NOW
On to the other wish-washyness:

Originally posted by StringTh
If I came across as if I am trying to argue in favor of UFOs, then I must have expressed myself wrong. I am a skeptic, but would love to be proved wrong. I want to believe.

Well you know, it might help if you didn't lie:

Originally posted by StringTh
I agree with you. I have maybe seen 2 or 3 footage that I cannot explain. There are just too many fake and mis-identified objects to go through, but I'm certainly a believer like yourself.

Which is it, do you believe in this junk or not? That't the problem isn't it? You can't save everyone if you believe in UFO = Alien, and you can't save everyone if you are the other camp. The mere fact that you play by the lables rules, the lables you hate. Well that shows me this thread is for "stars and flags". For it is a "we should all get along" thread.

Look up perfect world fallacy, or the nirvana fallacy.

The nirvana fallacy is the logical error of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives. It can also refer to the tendency to assume that there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the perfect solution fallacy.

en.wikipedia.org...
People do NOT get along, that is how things work. Aruging for the opposite, well it is more or less futile at the moment...

And UFO Alien
UFO=Unidentified

reply to post by adigregorio


I'm looking for stars and flags? Really? You are giving way too much value to your fingers clicking on a mouse and distributing stars and flags. There is no real value to that.

As to your input:

Originally posted by StringTh
The person that is in here without the slightest interest or curiosity in this subject, can only be either a dis-info agent or some sick troll with way too much time on his/her hands.

What are the motives of people that have no interest or curiosity in this subject, why are they here? Can you give me an answer as to what you think?

Originally posted by StringTh
The difficulty is to know who really is a troll or less educated (I'm one of them) person. That's why it's best to leave those you think are trolls in their own world with no attention. Labeling has to stop.

I never said that I do not have a personal opinion about some members, but I would never label them without any proof or just because they have different opinions. The above quote is my personal opinion without naming any1. So who am I insulting?

You said:

Well, friend, it seems that you need to follow your own advice. Since you think that there are trolls in the world, trolls are a fictional character. If you are refering to a human who acts differently from you, well isn't that the behavior you are condemning?

Since you are ridiculing me on this one and you know you do, as if I meant the fictional character, lmao. But thanks for bringing that up. Yes I am referring to your second option, but our definitions are different. Why do you put words into my mouth, leave them up to me. No I am not referring to all the people that think differently to me, but people that have no interest in productive discussions and just seem to create chaos where ever they go. THIS IS MY DEFINITION OF A TROLL.

Originally posted by StringTh
If I came across as if I am trying to argue in favor of UFOs, then I must have expressed myself wrong. I am a skeptic, but would love to be proved wrong. I want to believe.

Yes I did not want this thread to be in favor of any1 and I stated that. Yes I am a skeptic as I have seen many strange things explained perfectly. Makes me think that there is always a possibility that they all are explainable and not ET UFOs. Yes I like to be proved wrong as I am certain that there is life out there. And yes I want to believe that they already been/are here.

You said:

Well you know, it might help if you didn't lie:

Let's look at my lie then, shall we?

Originally posted by StringTh
I agree with you. I have maybe seen 2 or 3 footage that I cannot explain. There are just too many fake and mis-identified objects to go through, but I'm certainly a believer like yourself.

Seeing footage's that I cannot explain, does not mean that they wont be explained in future. And there are many fakes out there, I'm sure you agree on this one. And yes as stated above I do believe in life outside our little corner. Me being a believer like him, does not mean that we believe in the same thing, or to the same extend. It just means that we both believe.

So in short:
I'm a believer in other life forms, but a skeptic if they have visited us. I dont see any lie in here.

You just quote me out of the context.

You said regrettably:

Well that shows me this thread is for "stars and flags". For it is a "we should all get along" thread.

It's not for stars and flags, please un-flag me any1 who thinks that, that was my reason. YES, this is the only thing that I agree with you. THIS IS one of those "we should all get along" threads. It was meant to be, I said it in my OP, so well observed.

I agree that not all people get along and that's fine and I never intended to change that, all I asked for was more manners when doing so. But something about my intention itches you and I cannot figure out what!!

Thanks for your time and input.
StringTh

Originally posted by StringTh
I think me too that we can learn plenty from this subject. Your fascination tells me that you would love to come across the real deal and be wowed, but I also understand that this did not happen until now.

I have seen a UFO and it was a "wow" moment. However, as incredible as it was, I have no idea what it was and cannot declare it "alien" by any stretch.

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by StringTh
I think me too that we can learn plenty from this subject. Your fascination tells me that you would love to come across the real deal and be wowed, but I also understand that this did not happen until now.

I have seen a UFO and it was a "wow" moment. However, as incredible as it was, I have no idea what it was and cannot declare it "alien" by any stretch.

Really? Did you do a thread on it? Can you guide me to that link, or give me the title to search for? Sounds interesting even if it is from our own world.

I had not the pleasure yet to see anything with my own eyes and I'm waiting eagerly for that day.

Thanks for your time.
StringTh

Originally posted by StringTh

Originally posted by StringTh
The difficulty is to know who really is a troll or less educated (I'm one of them) person. That's why it's best to leave those you think are trolls in their own world with no attention. Labeling has to stop.

I never said that I do not have a personal opinion about some members, but I would never label them without any proof or just because they have different opinions.

Hey, you said it yourself:

"The labeling has to stop"

So that includes labels with (or without) any proof.

Originally posted by StringTh

Originally posted by adigregorio
Well, friend, it seems that you need to follow your own advice. Since you think that there are trolls in the world, trolls are a fictional character. If you are refering to a human who acts differently from you, well isn't that the behavior you are condemning?

Since you are ridiculing me on this one and you know you do, as if I meant the fictional character, lmao.

Actually, you are correct 1/2 here. I knew you were labeling other humans, and not referencing the fictional character. But instead of being brunt and calling out the hypocrisy, I sugar coated it a bit...

Originally posted by StringTh
Why do you put words into my mouth, leave them up to me. No I am not referring to all the people that think differently to me...

Well, since we are talking about how others label, why do you think I am refering to who you are labeling?

Originally posted by StringTh
, but people that have no interest in productive discussions and just seem to create chaos where ever they go. THIS IS MY DEFINITION OF A TROLL.

And here in lies the rub, your definition of a troll does not give you the right to label others as such. Because, well a "my definition" is also known as an "opinion". If that is all the proof you need to label someone a troll, again I say you need to follow your own advice and quit with the labeling.

Originally posted by StringTh
If I came across as if I am trying to argue in favor of UFOs, then I must have expressed myself wrong. I am a skeptic, but would love to be proved wrong. I want to believe.

Originally posted by StringTh
You just quote me out of the context.

I quoted the posts in their ENTIRE form. So you believe you are a skeptic? Either they are coming here, and you believe this. Or you are skeptical, and don't know for sure. I suppose you could believe they are here, and be skeptical of your beliefs. But that would just be a run-around...

You said regrettably:

Originally posted by StringTh
THIS IS one of those "we should all get along" threads. It was meant to be, I said it in my OP, so well observed.

I agree that not all people get along and that's fine and I never intended to change that, all I asked for was more manners when doing so. But something about my intention itches you and I cannot figure out what!!

What itches me is seeing these threads and they complain about how we should get along, and them seem to focus on the "trolls" (aka skeptics).

When the believers do the same, if not harsher, behavior.

reply to post by MattiasDesigns


why do you need to see to believe, why cant you believe in people who has seen it?

I have seen 4 ufo in my life, 2 in group. why cant you believe in me?

I have seen it, i am a believer, i had skeptic with me when it happened and now they are believers...

Isnt that enough..

i'm a de-liever.

lol deliver

reply to post by skywalk

why do you need to see to believe, why cant you believe in people who has seen it?

As they say ... seeing is believing and when its something as big as ET visitation we need to see it to believe it .

I have seen 4 ufo in my life, 2 in group. why cant you believe in me?

I believe you , but what may be unidentified to you may not be to someone else .... UFOs aren't necessarily extraterrestrial .

I have seen it, i am a believer, i had skeptic with me when it happened and now they are believers... Isnt that enough..

For you and your fellow witness it would appear so , but to everyone else it is just an anecdote and Ufology is full of anecdotal reports .

reply to post by StringTh

What do you guys think?

I think this thread belongs in the rant forum.