addictions

reply to post by ICEKOHLD

all the addicts will have to sober up or die.

Sober up or "die?"

Where did you come up with the idea that people will die if they don't have access to the things they are addicted to?

Originally posted by kimish

Originally posted by tinker9917
I think alot of it will have to do with the mind anyway. Just like pain... you can "talk" to yourself and make pain lessen and ease up a bit. I think addiction is is the same, unless maybe in the cases that the withdrawls are so bad you have seizures or something serious such as that.

But you have to have the mental ability to overcome, which so many do not have.

It's easier said than done. Especially if you're physically addicted. Your body needs it so it's not all in your head. Granted, your head can help you get over it but a physical addiction can be very bad. Btw, physical addictions (which happens with more things than I think you are aware of) can result in seizures, drop or rise in blood pressure and numerous other things. Soo, in essence, it's actually more than a "mind over matter" thing.
Food for thought.

(And remember I AM a smoker)

I completely agree, and I guess that is what I was trying to say. That some addictions, and severity of the addiction, will effect whether the mind can overcome. The mind cannot control whether or not you have a siezure, etc.

I overcame alcohol, and so have a couple of of my friends. (I DO KNOW!) I also know someone that if they take one more drink of alcohol it could Kill them. Addiction that severe is scary.

I also know that is SHTF, that I would not be worrying about where I could find a pack of cigarettes. I would be wondering about the food to be found, the water, the supplies. If my life depended on the drug, it would be a different story/

Maybe it's because of the overcoming of the alcohol that I know I would be ok? That the cravings will subside? That my 4 kids depending on me means more that my cigarettes?

I could not imagine looking at my four children saying "sorry kids, no food today because I need to smoke"

reply to post by tinker9917


S for you.
Good post. I completely agree and thank you for clarifying.
Believe it or not, alcohol withdrawl is the only withdrawl you can actually die from. I didn't believe it myself but i've been put into 3 or 4 D&A programs in the last 14 years and I've learned alot and I've also shared alot, no pun intended lol.
Thank you for your input
And good luck to you and yours' if S does ever HTF.


Kimish

I order tobacco and tubes in bulk and use a machine that injects the tubes in 2 seconds. Since it only costs about $10 per carton for non-'FireSafe" cigs I'd have months to not worry about running out, pretty much. I actually grow tobacco but only for as a natural insecticide. Curing tobacco takes a long time (years I guess) and I wouldn't deal with low grade tobacco too well and would tire of crap tobacco quickly. I also have E-Cig's which I almost quit on without using it for that purpose but I got sick of hassling with it. A $10 bottle lasts months and I have 2 of them.

I advise people to have tobacco seeds for the barter economy for commerce, much like I advise having a good understanding on how to 'make' alcocol and try to have some basic components for doing such if not for only augmenting your barter economy portfolio. Hops and barley seeds would be a basic start.

reply to post by ICEKOHLD


When you see commercials making you feel ashamed of your own 'mucous', I see advertised death.

Smoke is good defense against radioactive particles, as they 'harmlessly disperse' across the world. Once again, tobacco will be demonized, and scapegoated, for nuclear fallout, probably a million bomb's worth of it. The greatest mind on board has proclaimed the fallout is harmless, and since has fallen mute. A lifeless zombie.

I like tobacco. I know that it will also come under the war on drugs. Why? Because I'm me, and they are them.

I think stockpiling is a good idea, because I'd probably float out of my shoes after 3 days withdrawal. Just think, pretty soon tobacco will be a taboo subject here, once it's illegal.

reply to post by NightGypsy

Originally posted by NightGypsy
Sober up or "die?"

Where did you come up with the idea that people will die if they don't have access to the things they are addicted to?

Depends what they are addicted to, take alcohol for example, something I'm sure your familiar with and a very common addiction. Acute alcohol withdrawal or 'DT's' would have a 35% mortality rate in a SHTF scenario where you cannot be hospitalized.

Unlike the withdrawal syndrome associated with opiate dependence, DT (and alcohol withdrawal in general) can be fatal. Mortality was as high as 35% before the advent of intensive care and advanced pharmacotherapy; in the modern era of medicine, death rates range from 5-15%

en.wikipedia.org...

Nobody "came up with the idea", its a fact of life that quitting drugs can and does kill people all the time. That is why doctors say its important to keep drinking until you find a free bed in a proper rehab.

Other common addictions cause life threatening withdrawal symptoms. Valium is one example, but most of the time you'll get away with just a few seizures.

Then there's suicide, I'd imagine people would already be stressed or traumatized in a shtf scenario to begin with.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
Depends what they are addicted to, take alcohol for example, something I'm sure your familiar with and a very common addiction. Acute alcohol withdrawal or 'DT's' would have a 35% mortality rate in a SHTF scenario where you cannot be hospitalized.

You have to take all the numbers into account:

In the U.S., fewer than about 50% to 60% of alcoholics will develop any significant withdrawal symptoms upon cessation of alcohol intake, and of these, only 5% of cases of acute ethanol withdrawal progress to DT.

From the same wiki entry.

So 35% of 5% is 1.75% of people who drink 9 or more beers or around half a liter of 80 proof liquor every day may get DTs. That seems pretty low and it is the being put up here as the worst situation. All in all, it seems that the majority of addicts are not going to die from withdrawal.

I'm am quitting smoking as we speak
I quit alcohol 2 years ago.
Next I will have to loose the weight I gained while getting rid of the other death baggage.
If it isn't one thing it's another.
Not sure if I'll stop coffee though.

However having a stock of smokes and booze does seen like a good bargaining arrangement.

It's called cold turkey.

Bummer for those who can't kick their addictions and the supply is suddenly cut off.

As someone else noted....Stay away from twitchy people if the SHTF

Just to add my .02 worth, I have already overcome some addictions. I quit smoking after a 20+ year habit with the help of nicorette gum and it wasn't too bad. Years ago, I used to "freebase" coc aine (which is pretty much the same thing as smoking crack, no matter what anyone else says). Finally one day I decided that I was done throwing my life away on that crap and quit cold turkey and it wasn't too bad at all. Very little withdrawal symptoms.

Drinking has never really been a problem for me - I maybe have a few beers a week so that won't really be a problem other than really missing the taste of beer. And I drink the craft beers or microbrewery beers for the most part, so it's more for the taste than the buzz. I like the more malty beers as opposed to the hoppy IPA's and such, and the big name beers are just too watery for my tastes.

I have smoked, um, other smokable "herbs" off and on throughout my life, but I don't believe that one is addicting. I never felt an actual, physical "craving" for it ever.

The one most difficult thing I have ever quit was prescription narcotics. I ended up being on about 320 - 400 mg of Oxycontin per day - originally due to some medical condition. Of course it started out with regular Percocets and other "milder" narcotics and steadily progressed as my addiction progressed. I finally made the decision to quit and at first tried to go cold turkey. That lasted about one day. Narcotic withdrawl is about the most horrible I have ever felt in my entire life. You will do anything to take something to make it go away. Just thinking about it now gives me the shivers, but long story short I ended up going to a "methadone clinic" and was prescribed a drug called Subutex. What Subutex (also called Suboxone) does is take away the physical feelings of withdrawal without giving you the narcotic effects of the drug. I took this over several months while I slowly took less and less of it until I finally quit.

So, to the point, having gone through a few different experiences with quitting drugs and nicotine myself, I would say that the smokers will be very angry, but they will be fine after some time. It is the narcotic addicts who will have the absolute worst withdrawal symptoms in a SHTF scenario and I would imagine there will be suicides as a lot will feel that is their only escape. From my own personal experience I would strongly suggest that anyone on narcotics to go through some form of recovery program and get off of those things while you can. You must find other ways to manage your pain. This really is one of those things where I believe if I could do it (with professional help), then anyone could.

So, short story long I would agree that even if the S never does HTF NOW is the time to quit your addictions. If for no other reason then to start actually enjoying life again.

Good question but maybe the extra rage will be useful for those 'awkward' moments you would otherwise shy away from.

I smoke but can take or leave them, spend lots of time driving Ambulances and as such don;t smoke as much as I used to.

Why survive?
There is nothing in our probable future that requires us to survive in a chaotic environment.

What are the 6 million plus kids currently on Ritalin going to do without these mind suppressants. Will they all go mad in an adhd frenzy?

You can substitute tabacco w/ dried lettuce/cabbage they do it in the joint...
Smoke cannabis it grows wild unlike tobacco...

Make alcohol out of any fruit... Do it in the pen.

I feel sorry for people on psych meds & meds for say Parkinson's, MD, bi polar (I'm in that boat)
Cerebal palsy etc...

Drugs are a choice! Diseases your born with are not a choice but a reality.

Addictions come and go. Terminal disorders don't.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


The clouds don't clear. The radiation harmlessly disperses into the ground, as you know. Don't have such a bright outlook. I am surprised at you.

Note to add, while I am here:

Over ten years ago this paranoid nutter heard the clanging of the death knell for tobacco in the form of media rollouts stating that 'troubled minds are more prone to cigarette use'. My take is that the smoke gets in the eyes of the technofascist human interfaces. Like dirt inside a swiss watch. It interferes with the precision. But now, more than ever, with the fallout, tptw do not want anyone building up a mucous layer against the carcinogens. Mucinex™ is death. The mucous is there for a reason. If I had not smoked as a machinist, I would have been hurt badly by the copious amounts of lead and metals from my endless grinding. Each day I blew out horrid black snot, thank God. Thanks to the smoking habit I fortunately picked up.

LONG LIVE AMERICAN SPIRIT.

Someone please pick me up. I am in the rough. But headed for the gutter. With a can of tobacco and some fine rolling skills.

reply to post by daskakik


Yes, obviously not everyone gets DT's, I probably should have stated the obvious. My post was in reply to the person who said "where did you get the idea people can die from withdrawal"

reply to post by polarwarrior

I figured that but I was just pointing out that you have to drink like a fish and even then the chances are low. So, while it is true, it is not very likely, so I think NightGypsy's question is valid. I mean it was a response to "all the addicts will have to sober up or die". That has to be made up because it obviously isn't true.

reply to post by daskakik


Yeah, your right about that

reply to post by ICEKOHLD


I use a lot of different meds including morphine and dilaudid on a daily basis for injuries from a car wreck a few years ago. I also use tobacco. But, I left the civilized world behind once for a year and stayed in the Alaska wilderness alone, when the drugs and tobacco ran out it really did not stress me, I don;t remember really thinking about it, I mean it was gone and that was it, no way to get more so it was never a factor. I believe these things are a big deal or appear to be when they are right down the street and easy to get. When you have no way of getting them I don;t think it really hurts as bad and you don;t miss them as bad. I had to learn to adapt to the pain, but I was on no time schedule so that was easy and had to be careful about how I did things so as to reduce the amount of pain I was in, never did miss the tobacco but a year later when I came back to town that's the first thing I bought. lol