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Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

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posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by NotAnAspie

look at my name.

this means "as opposed to others"


That's nice.... look at my name... it means "Purple Chiten"




posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by NotAnAspie
*I* am a bad speller. yes *I* take offense. I also have a lot of common sense and see when people are choosing to take things as though it's a competition of intelligence.

It's about the issues, not how smart it does or does not make you look. Nobody is getting brownie points in here for being the best speller or using the correct made up term.


But if you are not able to communicate effectively, you can't get upset at others for issues of your own making.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by NotAnAspie


She was talking DIRECTLY to me when making two very moot points in the context of meaningless argumnt.

Furthermore, If a black person hears another black person get called the N word, does that mean they should say "oh, he wasn't talking to me"

trust me, I know how many errors I make and I also know how petty it is to get onto someone's spelling and If i want to state my opinion on that, I have every right.

Furthermore, I wasn't talking to YOU.

Get what I'm saying?

You wanna preach it, you PRACTICE it.


Seriously dude, you are very much over reacting and may need to just step away for a while and gather yourself. It's always better to walk away, gather your emotions, then come back and address any issues than to try to do it when you are visably upset and unable to process logic due to emotional overload.
Go out and take a walk, or play a game online or do something that doesn't involve communication for a while and refocus. It's much more effective than getting so upset that you compound the issue.

perhaps in the future, if you want to reply to a particular person without other people adding their opinions and input, send a private message. The message boards are for everyone and everyone is welcome to comment on what is said. Your skin will get thicker as you post more and emotions won't overcome you so much. Just take some deep breaths, take a little break, gather yourself, then jump back in and offer productive opinions again
edit on 25-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

look at my name.

this means "as opposed to others"


That's nice.... look at my name... it means "Purple Chiten"


Thanks for the giggle. You just made me spit out my iced tea.



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

look at my name.

this means "as opposed to others"


That's nice.... look at my name... it means "Purple Chiten"


Thanks for the giggle. You just made me spit out my iced tea.


Welcome!!

I'll be here all week, be sure to tip your waitress!



posted on May, 25 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Domo1
Also, can you explain to me (and the tone is not meant to be nasty I am genuinely interested) what bothers you about gay people calling it marriage?


Historically, legally and religiously marriage has meant a legal union between a women and a man. Not two men.

Can you explain to me why the historical, legal and religious meanings of the word 'marriage' should be changed to include same sex unions?



Because the world is always changing. When the world changes, we as a human society change and our rules, morals, ethics of what is right and wrong changes. We evolve. We grow. We mature. If we don't then we become stagnant organisms.

You can't go home again. You can't turn the hands of time backwards. And you don't want to... not really. It's not healthy. Grow with the rest of the world. Stop fighting what's inevitable. Toss aside your hatred. Forgive your parents for instilling it in you and learn to love the other human beings God put on this Earth.
It's what God wants you to do.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

As for statements to others about bad spelling being a sign of intelligence, why would you even go there? A 65 year old should be familiar with the term "dyslexia" Other than expressing disappointment and discouragement for what I was thinking could be an interesting conversation, that's all I want to say.


HA HA HA


I'm not the one who started the little "slamola" diatribe game of "Who's Smarter then a 65 Year Old".

Nope - Nada - - - that would be the other guy.

I didn't want him to think he was playing alone.


Now I think you are being extremely paranoid.

If your feelings are getting hurt because I pointed out to you that small groups of communists do not work, it is simply because you mentioned communism after *I* mentioned it. You also used the term "mumble jumble" on the exact same page after *I* used "mumbo jumbo"... to indirectly correct me on two points. rather than taking offense I merely clarified my point by saying that only large groups of communism works, which is pretty much a fact for very obvious reasons.


What? Paranoid?

Odd how some people interpret another person's fooling around.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

You do realize that she was talking to someone else about the spelling, right?


And only because he was playing the "I'm smarter then you game".



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Isn't that generally the case for small government?...she says. Does it need to be repeated?


Hold it. I do not believe that is what I said.

You are Interpreting what I actually said into your own thought pattern.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by jupiter869

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Domo1
Also, can you explain to me (and the tone is not meant to be nasty I am genuinely interested) what bothers you about gay people calling it marriage?


Historically, legally and religiously marriage has meant a legal union between a women and a man. Not two men.

Can you explain to me why the historical, legal and religious meanings of the word 'marriage' should be changed to include same sex unions?



Because the world is always changing. When the world changes, we as a human society change and our rules, morals, ethics of what is right and wrong changes. We evolve. We grow. We mature. If we don't then we become stagnant organisms.

You can't go home again. You can't turn the hands of time backwards. And you don't want to... not really. It's not healthy. Grow with the rest of the world. Stop fighting what's inevitable. Toss aside your hatred. Forgive your parents for instilling it in you and learn to love the other human beings God put on this Earth.
It's what God wants you to do.


Since you bring God into it.
Do you really believe that Our Creator changes? Really? I'd hope that even atheists would recognise that qualities of God would be based on unchanging justice, mercy and laws. So with this in mind, how do you come to the conclusion that morals MUST change just because the world "changes"? Does having a flat screen, mobile phones or the Internet justify abandoning "Thou Shalt Not Murder" for instance? Does driving a car versus riding a horse to work JUSTIFY throwing out "Thou Shalt Not Murder"?? Really? That most basic of moral truths has been thrown out the window by everyone accepting abortion, not because the world has changed, but because people's beliefs have been changed to not see the baby as a baby and because they've been made to place the love of convenience, money or career ABOVE the love of life. The "world" didn't change, but people's beliefs have been changed to no longer view life in the womb as a baby.

"Thou Shalt Not Steal" - we all understand what this means, yet today most have been conditioned to not think of downloading a pirated film, or buying a dress to wear at a party whilst planning on returning it to the store the very next day, as somehow NOT stealing. Again, did the world change, or did our beliefs get changed and we just can't recognise that somewhere along the way somebody gave us a new definition?

The same with a topic such as gay marriage. Did the world really 'change', or did somebody come along and change the beliefs of society?

In every one of these cases, the world DID NOT change, but our beliefs did. Now I ask you, how did our beliefs get changed when the world didn't change? Somebody, very powerful and influential, had the ability and means to change your beliefs without you realising it. Let me present again, a secular example of HOW IT WAS DONE:

US Congressional Record
1963
'45 Communist Goals'

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
 
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
 
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
 
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."
 
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state." www.rense.com...

Are you still going to believe that the "world changed", or will you admit the truth - that the beliefs of people have been purposely changed? It's a very difficult realisation that these past two generations have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to accept new morality without them EVER knowing about it. What happens to people when confronted with this truth? 1) they dismiss it because they 'like' their life or 2) they start to seek the real truth of the matter because they value TRUTH. My friend, the world has grown in technology but hasn't changed, but the western nations have changed due to being made Godless through indoctrination of sin. And the tradegy is they reject God because of this new morality that was purposely foisted upon them. They cannot see that the end time 'beast' has successfully come against the people Israel.

God is still there, not changing, watching His Creation descend into worse and worse behaviours because they learned to love wickedness and hate truth. but in all of this, He waits for those who do love truth to seek Him.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by IndigoRing
reply to post by WhoKnows100
 


As I mentioned in my first post, I did not mention that I was gay and Christian because I wanted you or any other ATS member who does not know me at all to debate it. My relationship with God and my Christianity aren't the subjects of this thread - it's about why gay marriage could be interpreted as a conservative value.

Please understand that I presented my point, as you mention when you say "[he/me] argues his case on the grounds of financial equality," because financial conservatism and keeping "Big Government" of of people's personal lives are well-known conservative talking points. I used that particular bullet because it was relevant to the topic of the thread.

My apologies if I have mislead you or did not communicate my intentions clearly. If the topic was about discussing homosexuality and how it fits or does not fit into Christianity - which this thread is not - I'd have discussed it from a topic-appropriate perspective.



Yes, I understand your position. Having said that, you also want people to believe that gay marriage is a conservative principle whilst proclaiming that you are a Christian. As a Christian therefore, you should be well aware of those other matters listed, in which case, are you being truthful to those who are reading your thread? I think that this is the crux of my issue. You are not. As a Christian, you would know exactly why the homosexual lifestyle is being indoctrinated into the minds of our youth, and your post which states that gay marriage is a 'conservative principle' is just part of that indoctrination. I see that I've been called 'mentally ill' or something to that effect, for repeatedly pointing out the indoctrination that has been going on. So be it, but it drives home the point of how this end time generation arrives at being God-haters, fornicators, insolent, disrespectful, wicked, disobedient, etc. As a Christian, you would be well aware of these things, and that it is the mind and heart that lead one astray from a relationship with God.

I'm well aware that many homosexuals come to Christ, yet they are very vocal about leaving behind their former lifestyles.They certainly are very vocal about what part the gay agenda is serving to redefine morality away from God. This is no different than a person who led a life of crime, or drug dealing or murdering. They shun their former lifestyles, and work tirelessly to tell people about the Kingdom of God, not how their former lifestyles should actually be considered a 'conservative principal'. Why? Because they can finally see how those lusts and sins kept them alienated from a relationship from God, and how it traps so many today.

I wish the best for you, but I, as a Christian, was hoping for truth here from you. Arguing that an 'economic principal' is justification enough to promote any lifestyle that takes people away from God as a 'conservative principal' is just flat out morally wrong. Where have you glorified God by doing such a thing? Does a former drug addict do this? Does a former prostitute do this? Does a former drug dealer do this? Does a former heterosexual caught up in sexual addictions do this? No. They preach the salvation available from God Himself to deliver from such lives, they don't encourage others to jump right back into the frying pan because they knew how lost they were. Therefore, you as a Christian are doing that very thing to others with your arguments that gay marriage, and by extension, the gay lifestyle, shoul be accepted as a conservative principal. Would you agree if a Christian who was previously caught up in hetero sexual addictions, knowing full well that those lusts kept them separated from God, did the same thing? As a Christian, your answer would be NO. And with that truth, you and I must strive to be consistent of applying the same spiritual truth to a vast multitude of physical realities.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 04:28 AM
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reply to post by WhoKnows100
 


If god has such #ed up laws, I am a better being than god is.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IndigoRing

.


Its unfortunate the Fundamental Christian Right - - - (same group that denied black people rights) - - - has such influence over so many.



What's really so unfortunate is that you cannot understand where your OWN beliefs come from



Uh huh

Here are the 2 other posts of yours I found in this thread. And you quote Rense. And Overlords of Chaos overlordsofchaos.com...

Have you considered professional help?


Is that your typical response to truth? I guess even the scarlet[/] beast of Revelation doesn't prick your curiosity, or that the mark of the beast is on the hand (actions) or forehead (mind/worship), or that Communism around the world brutally slaughters millions of Christians and all who disagree with it's Godless state...or that the creators of Communism doctrine are the very same who control and create the greatest form of indoctrination known to mankind - the media.

Truth is the dividing line - either you accept it or reject it. Just don't reject it because of the love of wickedness which has been deceitfully laced throughout the western nations. Know the time in which you've been chosen to live. Ignoring truth will place you in the army who fights Christ Jesus' return, accepting it will 'disqualify you from recruitment' so to speak.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

What? Paranoid?

Odd how some people interpret another person's fooling around.


I looked at other threads that were made and tried talking to her... no luck, there are things going on waaayyy beyond anything we can help with. Just total beligerance. Best thing we can do is pray or send positive thoughts or just "hope" that whatever issues are causing the behavior can be overcome (whichever method matches our own belief systems) and not add to it I guess.

I've seen enough of your posts to know you are an intelligent, caring person (and I think you're pretty darn awesome
), so it's not you at all, it's the other person's perception ....some can just have a bad day, others have a bad decade
edit on 26-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100



In every one of these cases, the world DID NOT change, but our beliefs did.


Yes, our beliefs change, and it changes the world. For eons, slavery was an acceptable practice. God had no problem with enslaving people against their will, as long as we treated slaves a certain way. But we have done away with slavery. We now believe that slavery is an abomination. Our beliefs changed, and the world changed.

Jesus said not one thing against two people in a loving committed relationship. Gays who want to be married are in a loving committed relationship. This is a good thing. The anti-homosexuality passages in Leviticus are not part of the 10 commandments. They are part of the taboos and rituals that were Jewish laws (don't eat shellfish, don't wear clothing of two fabrics, don't eat pork, don't cut your hair a certain way, etc.) Jesus never said we had to abide by those taboos and rituals, and no Christian follows those taboos to this day. Jesus emphasized the Golden Rule -- love your neighbor as yourself. This is all we need to do.



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by WhoKnows100



In every one of these cases, the world DID NOT change, but our beliefs did.


Yes, our beliefs change, and it changes the world. For eons, slavery was an acceptable practice. God had no problem with enslaving people against their will, as long as we treated slaves a certain way. But we have done away with slavery. We now believe that slavery is an abomination. Our beliefs changed, and the world changed.

Jesus said not one thing against two people in a loving committed relationship. Gays who want to be married are in a loving committed relationship. This is a good thing. The anti-homosexuality passages in Leviticus are not part of the 10 commandments. They are part of the taboos and rituals that were Jewish laws (don't eat shellfish, don't wear clothing of two fabrics, don't eat pork, don't cut your hair a certain way, etc.) Jesus never said we had to abide by those taboos and rituals, and no Christian follows those taboos to this day. Jesus emphasized the Golden Rule -- love your neighbor as yourself. This is all we need to do.



Agreed.
Leviticus also was translated many times, altered in the translations and interpreted in different ways. There are a lot of interpretations out there and they all have different forms of support and "proof". Those who want to focus on homosexuality are going to interpret it differently than those who couldn't care less about homosexuality. People read into it what they want to and many battles are waged, many wars are fought and many lives are lost due to mere opinions of a person or group of people



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Is that your typical response to truth?


What truth?

Who's truth?


I guess even the scarlet beast of Revelation doesn't prick your curiosity,


Nope


or that the mark of the beast is on the hand (actions) or forehead (mind/worship),


Nope


or that Communism around the world brutally slaughters millions of Christians and all who disagree with it's Godless state...


I'm Atheist. Seems you ignore Jews - Islamists - Buddhists - etc. No one has slaughtered more in the name of their god then Christians.


or that the creators of Communism doctrine are the very same who control and create the greatest form of indoctrination known to mankind - the media.
.

You seriously need help.


Truth is the dividing line - either you accept it or reject it.


What truth?

Who's truth?

edit on 26-5-2012 by Annee because: d



posted on May, 26 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Leviticus also was translated many times, altered in the translations and interpreted in different ways. There are a lot of interpretations out there and they all have different forms of support and "proof". Those who want to focus on homosexuality are going to interpret it differently than those who couldn't care less about homosexuality. People read into it what they want to and many battles are waged, many wars are fought and many lives are lost due to mere opinions of a person or group of people


Those who choose to make it about "God Hates Fags" - - - do so by choice. That is 100% by choice.

Homosexuality is not a choice.

There are other translations/interpretations that make far more sense.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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"homosexuality is not a choice"

is a dogmatic and unprovable statement

A lifetime of conditioning (including time in the womb) and social structures can influence an individuals behavior and identity but I keep seeing these types of statements being made when it's still such a strecth to believe that someones genetic composition Directly manifests into a behavior or emotion.

at the point where genetics are, there's so much to see cellular developments which are direct manifestations of certain genes. Behavioral developments.......not so much.

For instance, Why are Jamaicans some of the worlds best sprinters....its not a result of genetics or nutrition, its the result of choice and behavior and environment.

Homosexuality is probably the result of the same: choice, behavior and environment-(environment may be the hardest factor to include)

Homosexuality is voluntary population control, and even worse it opens the door to Eugenicide....

If there are individuals who want to have children and they get pregnant and during the pregnancy they screen they find the "gay gene" and choose to end the pregnancy....then the born this way, gay isn't a choice, argument could lead to the death or prevention of life of (future) gay people.

I respect the CHOICE of identity and gender and sexuality, the genetic anomalies XYY XXX just force me to expand my compassion and tolerance of others. I can respect choices, I don't generally respect dogma.

And there's no such thing as a gay Christian.......period!!.... because to dilute the identity of oneself as Christian, by connotating it with gay, means the sexuality of the person is as important to them as their true identity as Christian. Christian at its ideal means your race and gender and nationalism and social status are not what define you. gay Christian, gay Catholic those are loaded terms and deeply blasphemous to some of the highest ideals presented by various religions. A lot of religions have the theme where one must forego (in part or in whole)their identities and ego and make the greater good (service to God and to others) thier number one priority.

Without the mating of male and female, our species would have died off. The necessity for longevity is the procreation between man and woman and a support structure (like marriage).

But I do feel that the Opportunity to express love or experience companionship is a special part of life.....But so is the opportunity to be single, uncommited, goal-oriented, faithful, celibate or whatever one chooses.

You can choose what you want to feel or not feel. Humans aren't just stupid animals like the argument "homosexuality isn't a choice" can lead to believe. We Humans have free will over many things incuding our emotons.......That old dogmatic argument.....makes me feel like Gays are considered to be less than human.....Which They Are Not. People have done terrible things in the past and still do to people they justified as less than human.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by balanc3
 


Heterosexuality is not a choice.

I just saved you a huge page of a post.





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