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Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

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posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by Beanskinner
 


Oh dad and dad, I want to be like you... (next morning at school) you should know where its going. you want a hint? It involves a downhill slope and tears.




posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by SedatedSon
 


If you don't "care" why post at all? If you don't care, why post with the anger and hate that are so blatant within your words? If you don't care, why even pay attention to the issue? Sorry but it seems to me like you DO care and obviously have issues regarding gay marriage or gay people in general. I honestly just don't understand why two people wanting to get married is such a big deal to others not even involved.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Annee
 

My wife has gay friends and they are nice people. They chose to be who they are and I respect that 100%, but that not mean I agree with them and as long as they keep there homosexual habits to themselves, I am fine with them. But marriage is pushing the issue on so many levels and that is why we are here discussing it. I do not believe it is right but that is just me

 


If my homosexuality is a habit, so is your heterosexuality.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Beanskinner
 


Oh dad and dad, I want to be like you... (next morning at school) you should know where its going. you want a hint? It involves a downhill slope and tears.


I take it you make this statement based on decades of scientific research?

[/sarcasm]

If your statement was true, then how do you explain all the thousands of gay people that grew up in perfectly normal households with a normal heterosexual mommy and a normal heterosexual daddy?

If we overlook the uninformed statement and consider the actual scientific studies we find...


Research has shown that in contrast to common beliefs, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:

Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior).

Source



The gender identity of preadolescent children raised by lesbian mothers has been found consistently to be in line with their biological gender. None of >500 children studied have shown evidence of gender-identity confusion, wished to be the other gender, or consistently engaged in cross-gender behavior. No differences have been found in the toy, game, activity, dress, or friendship preferences of boys or girls who had lesbian mothers, compared with those who had heterosexual mothers.
...
There is ample evidence to show that children raised by same-gender parents fare as well as those raised by heterosexual parents. More than 25 years of research have documented that there is no relationship between parents' sexual orientation and any measure of a child's emotional, psychosocial, and behavioral adjustment. These data have demonstrated no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with 1 or more gay parents. Conscientious and nurturing adults, whether they are men or women, heterosexual or homosexual, can be excellent parents. The rights, benefits, and protections of civil marriage can further strengthen these families.
Source



The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry seeks to dispel common misconceptions about children raised by gay parents. First, it says children of gay parents aren't more likely to be gay or more likely to be sexually abused than children of heterosexual parents. Additionally, children with gay parents and children with heterosexual parents show no differences in gender identity or gender role behaviors. Although the American Academy of Pediatrics says that grown children of gay parents might be more willing to consider having a same-sex partner, they aren't more likely to identify themselves as homosexual.

Sexual orientation of parents has no bearing on children's emotional, behavioral or psychosocial adjustment, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. Because having gay parents poses no additional risks to children, the American Academy of Pediatrics states that any conscientious and nurturing adults, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, can make excellent parents and should receive equal benefits, rights and protections of civil marriage in order to bolster their strength as parents.
Source



In a finding that confronts deeply rooted beliefs about parenting, a new study concludes that parents' genders have little impact on children -- suggesting that same-sex couples are as effective at raising children as heterosexual couples.

On average, children succeed most when raised by two parents rather than one. The parents' genders, however, make little difference in terms of a child's development, according to a landmark study published in the Journal of Marriage and Family.
Link


And so on... There are more actual facts on this matter than you could ever read (not that you care to be informed in any case).

So, yeah, let's keep kids in overfull orphanages instead of giving them loving, stable parents, even if they are same-sex.

The only cause for tears at school is parents that teach their kids that homosexuality is "wrong". Just like their parents taught them for the same ignorant reasons that homosexuality is "wrong"... If only folks had some insight to break the cycle of teaching intolerance to kids...



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Annee


Can you explain the homosexual behaviors in the animal kingdom where parents don't "teach them" what to do??


Many animals eat their young.
Many animals clean their private parts by licking.
Many animals will kill the young of females in order to bring them back into heat.
Many animals will hump any sex because it is a lust and 'pleasurable'.

So what point are you trying to make? God states that you are a man or a woman, and not an animal with no control over your behaviour. In fact, it is the animalistic behaviours that are overcoming the God given reasoning abilities that He provided to MAN. If somebody ties up a child as an infant, and treats that child as a dog, that child will act like an animal in its behaviours. Why? No adult taught that child appropriate behaviours. We eventually get the Lord of Flies. Study it and realise the outcome of a society with no morality or a morality that doesn't teach love and life.

I can train my dig to sit, bark on command and shake His paw. But at the day, he will still hump an occasional leg because it must bring a physical pleasure. Are you telling me that a human, with his reasoning, consciousness and decision making abilities doesn't have the ability to not hump a leg? That because an ANIMAL ccannot control sexual impulses that it's RIGHT for a human being to do the same? Perhaps you may wish to understand who not only thinks of you as an animal, but who also convinced you to think like one. Your morality, absent of God's morality, is always subject to the beast. And that is the Lord of the Flies, the power of the air, the principalities that rule the mind of man devoid of God.


God created homosexuals too, are you saying God is wrong? There have been people born who were hermaphoditic, did God screw up or something? How do you know God isn't gay? Are you claiming God wrote the bible and sent it down via heavenly email? Men wrote it, not God. I'm not interested in what you do with your dog, I am very opposed to beastiality, we're discussing sexuality between members of the same species.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon

Why don't you tell me why it is right? I will tell you why it is wrong OK. Think about a kid watching two grown men kissing or some disgusting act and by the way they are the kids parents. The kid goes to school decides it is Ok to walk up to a person of the same sex a repeat what he has seen in the school yard. What do you think is going to happen?
The same kid, same scenario over at a friends house decides to put the hard word on his male friend because to him it is OK/Normal, the other kids parents walk in and to their shock, kid one is doing something strange. What happens then?


I don't want a kid watching two grown people of ANY gender kissing or in disgusting acts, do you allow your children to watch you have intercourse??????
I don't want a boy walking up and having inappropriate contact with a girl or a boy, do you encourage your childre to have sex at school??????
I don't encourage any teens to have sex, do you tell your children it's ok to go have sex at their friends house??????
Sounds like the problem here is with YOU. Why would anyone wanting kids participating in these behaviors with ANY gender???

I won't reply to the rest of your post until after the moderators have censored the language. Seriously, please try to communicate in an acceptable way. The language, masked or not, is inappropriate and not called for. It is the wise man who can choose his words, but the fool who must use profanity. We are adults and we're well aware of what little stars and blanks mean, and we really should be able to communicate without having to resort to those words at all, including masking them.
edit on 4-6-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Beanskinner
 


Oh dad and dad, I want to be like you... (next morning at school) you should know where its going. you want a hint? It involves a downhill slope and tears.


So you were raised by two fathers and it was traumatic for you??
Or did you abuse someone else who was? That seems much more like the case to me and is detestable.

If children aren't raised to hate others, then there would be no issue. The problem is in the hatred, not in the homosexuality.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by Cahlin
reply to post by SedatedSon
 


If you don't "care" why post at all? If you don't care, why post with the anger and hate that are so blatant within your words? If you don't care, why even pay attention to the issue? Sorry but it seems to me like you DO care and obviously have issues regarding gay marriage or gay people in general. I honestly just don't understand why two people wanting to get married is such a big deal to others not even involved.


Agreed. If what two men or two women do has an effect on my marriage, there is something wrong with my marriage to start with.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by Gemwolf
 


Excellent points! It is clearly shown through research that the homosexual parents aren't the issue at all, the homophobic parents who teach intolerance and hatred are the problem.
At first, I typed "heterosexual" instead of "homophobic", but that just isn't the case. Many times, those who are the most homophobic aren't heterosexual at all. They play the part, but only because they were taught that they had to and it causes great turmoil within them. They question themselves and end up with greater hatred than those who don't question themselves. That is perhaps the biggest contributing factor in the violence that occurs.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


What are you trying to get at by simply turning everything I have written back on me like I am writing about myself or something? I AGAIN do not have a choice in the outcome when it comes to gay marriage but I do not agree with it and that is just my point of view. If you want to go and fight for their rights, get off your butt and away from your computer and go do something about it. I would rather sit here and worry about what I'm doing because it doesn't matter what any of you think, how rude I am, whether I hate gays or not, what evidence you bring to the table. All yous are doing is blowing hot air through your fingers, like myself and it really isn't getting any gay anywhere, especially if yous feel so strong about it.

Having an argument with me, is not changing anything. The only thing it is showing me is how pathetic you really are by responding to my crap and how it somehow does get under your skin when it really shouldn't.

I am offensive in nature, I like too be honest even if it does offend people. If you do not like it, go have a cry, see if I care. I have more important things to worry about than proving why a religious ritual which is against homosexuality will not allow homosexuals to marry each other in a religious building. I am catholic and I agree with them in this instance. It would be against the religions beliefs for a start and why should the allow it to happen just because all of you believe they are unfair?



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Gemwolf
 


So what is that research based on? The people they seen fit to participate? A rough study of 1000 kids and homosexual parents? Throw it all at me, it will not change the way I feel about the entire subject. Tell your buddies to stop throwing the god crap at me as well, because without the people who are against this, there would be no god for them to hide behind in the first place. BTW most religions are against homosexuality. Maybe they should take a trip to Iran or something and see how bad peoples rights are.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Cahlin
 


Take it up with the religious institutions because I believe they are the ones who will not allow it regardless of any two bit government, especially when it is a religious ritual which mostly happens under religious roofs, on religious grounds and again, religion is against homosexuality. It's not my opion you need too worry about, this goes higher thatn me, what am I jesus or something?



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


My children have never had a hand raised to them because I am against it. My children have seen me and my wife kiss here and there, no problem, what are you getting at? My children are raised to respect everything and everyone. They will also have their own opinions when they get older and that is their choice, not yours or anyone elses whether it is offensive or not. But from what I know, no children are homosexual at there school either for now, maybe because they see straight and are taught that way also.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Garfee
 


My cigarette smoking is a habit, if you get pleasure out of kissing the same gender, go for it, it doesn't change my stand either way. Take your issue up with religion because they will disappoint you more than I will.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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The BS I am seeing in this thread is unbelievable. There are valid points from both sides which seem to be getting mixed up with absolute garbage which does not help anyone.

I agree that maybe this is an issue that should be taken up with religous parties and not government parties. The government may bring in laws but how can you bring in a law that strictly goes against the laws of a Religion? Whether homosexuals are nice people or not the government simply can't introduce this law because it is against the rights of a group of people. It is not a Human Right, they are not being harmed in any way, beaten, shot at and this subject should never get to the point it has in this thread.

On the contrary, people should not discriminate against homosexuals either. They are aloud to be homosexuals and that is a basic right as it is. They have come a long way, from being beaten, mocked even killed and I'm sure there are still people stupid enough to do it out there in this day and age. They are nice people, if you do not like them, don't associate or discriminate against them, let them be. It is a tough subject and of course things may get heated when ones strings are tugged but from what I can see right here, in this particular thread is two sides trying to prove they are right when the truth is no-one is. There are issues on so many different levels concerning gay marriage, children being brought up in that environment and others of course, that argueing and insulting each other here is pointless.

Sedatedson -> you need to go learn a thing or two about respect towards this group of people. Homosexual and people who are interested in this subject. If you do not like what you are seeing here, go find another topic to entertain youself. Obviously this topic is something you have not thought about very much about, So what value are you going to add to the subject if you are pretty much just trashing everyone who doesn't believe your side of the coin?



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


What are you trying to get at by simply turning everything I have written back on me like I am writing about myself or something? I AGAIN do not have a choice in the outcome when it comes to gay marriage but I do not agree with it and that is just my point of view. If you want to go and fight for their rights, get off your butt and away from your computer and go do something about it. I would rather sit here and worry about what I'm doing because it doesn't matter what any of you think, how rude I am, whether I hate gays or not, what evidence you bring to the table. All yous are doing is blowing hot air through your fingers, like myself and it really isn't getting any gay anywhere, especially if yous feel so strong about it.

perhaps they would rather worry about what they are doing as opposed to how you feel.... so you have the same desire they have for autonomy? Yet you still choose to constantly speak out about them even though you claim to not care? There is something deeper here.... why do you feel so compelled to constantly center on it? Do you have some deep, hidden feelings that you aren't facing?



Having an argument with me, is not changing anything. The only thing it is showing me is how pathetic you really are by responding to my crap and how it somehow does get under your skin when it really shouldn't.

So you are saying that by constantly discussing it, that it somehow gets under your skin and really shouldn't? could it be some deep hidden feelings that you aren't facing?



I am offensive in nature, I like too be honest even if it does offend people. If you do not like it, go have a cry, see if I care. I have more important things to worry about than proving why a religious ritual which is against homosexuality will not allow homosexuals to marry each other in a religious building. I am catholic and I agree with them in this instance. It would be against the religions beliefs for a start and why should the allow it to happen just because all of you believe they are unfair?

so you are torn between your religous beliefs and the deep hidden feelings you have and it's causing turmoil and strife for you, so you spend an unusual amount of time discussing it on message boards because they provide anonymity.... interesting.....

How might you find a way to face these deep hidden feelings and bring them to the surface so you can deal with them? I'm sure it frightens you a great deal, but until you are able to come face to face with them, they will continue to torment you. If any of us can be of any assistance, please let us know and good luck in your journey of coming to terms with your sexual identiy.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Gemwolf
 


So what is that research based on? The people they seen fit to participate? A rough study of 1000 kids and homosexual parents? Throw it all at me, it will not change the way I feel about the entire subject. Tell your buddies to stop throwing the god crap at me as well, because without the people who are against this, there would be no god for them to hide behind in the first place. BTW most religions are against homosexuality. Maybe they should take a trip to Iran or something and see how bad peoples rights are.


Ummm..... Gemwolf gave the sources, did you bother clicking the links? They are very credible sources and explain the process....
So you are saying that all the other religions are right since they agree with you on this particular point? Would that make your religion wrong since they are often at odds? If yours is wrong, why do you continue to adhere to it?



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Cahlin
 


Take it up with the religious institutions because I believe they are the ones who will not allow it regardless of any two bit government, especially when it is a religious ritual which mostly happens under religious roofs, on religious grounds and again, religion is against homosexuality. It's not my opion you need too worry about, this goes higher thatn me, what am I jesus or something?


We live in a democratic republic, not a theocracy, so the religions really have no say in the grand scheme of things. Very defensive.... are there feelings that you are having trouble coming to terms with?


Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


My children have never had a hand raised to them because I am against it. My children have seen me and my wife kiss here and there, no problem, what are you getting at? My children are raised to respect everything and everyone. They will also have their own opinions when they get older and that is their choice, not yours or anyone elses whether it is offensive or not. But from what I know, no children are homosexual at there school either for now, maybe because they see straight and are taught that way also.

Hopefully NONE of the children are sexual at all, they shouldn't be at that age. However, within them is still their basic sexual desire that will emerge during puberty and about 10% of the children there will be homosexual adults, either openly or closeted.
You regularly show sexually suggestive actions in front of your children, then you take polls at the school concerning the sexual activity and proclivity of the students there??? Do the school officials know that you are doing this? I'm sure they wouldn't approve!!!!
edit on 5-6-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by DarknStormy
The BS I am seeing in this thread is unbelievable. There are valid points from both sides which seem to be getting mixed up with absolute garbage which does not help anyone.

I agree that maybe this is an issue that should be taken up with religous parties and not government parties. The government may bring in laws but how can you bring in a law that strictly goes against the laws of a Religion? Whether homosexuals are nice people or not the government simply can't introduce this law because it is against the rights of a group of people. It is not a Human Right, they are not being harmed in any way, beaten, shot at and this subject should never get to the point it has in this thread.

There are laws against human sacrifice, plural marriages, age of marriage, burning animals on alters, stoning those you disagree with, keeping slaves of neighboring lands you conquer... there are many laws against the the tenents of religion as well there should be. Government is about equality for all citizens, religion is a choice for the people who follow it. Big difference.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by SedatedSon
reply to post by Garfee
 
My cigarette smoking is a habit, if you get pleasure out of kissing the same gender, go for it, it doesn't change my stand either way. Take your issue up with religion because they will disappoint you more than I will.
No, according to you, your heterosexuality is a habit, as you have determined by statement of opinion. I cite quotes from two of your posts from page 35 of this thread as reference.

"...as long as they keep there homosexual habits to themselves, I am fine with them...


"I did not choose to like women, I was brought up and taught by my wonderful parents..."

Obviously my heterosexual parents are cruel, #cked up deviants who made a conscious decision to raise a homosexual child - knowing how much fun it would be for both themselves and their child, or your parents were just superior to mine and should be cloned so we can all be perfect from now on.






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