DVD and Blue-Ray Disc piracy warnings you can't ignore .... for us non-pirates

Source

OK, you and I may not be video pirates.... your family, neighbors, and friends may not be pirates... in fact - no one who buys a DVD or Blue-ray disc is likely a pirate... and I've been told that among the first things pirates do is remove any or all of the 'warning screens' that pop up when you play a disc on your DVD or Blue-Ray player....

You know the screens I am referring to right? They are the ones that offer threats of criminal prosecution and hefty fines and jail sentences for those darn pirates....

Well... the Immigrations & Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency (the crack government agency responsible for using our tax dollars to keep terrorists and illegal immigrants out of our country) has diversified their portfolio of activities into fighting the war on copyright violations... and the first order of business is upgrading those warnings to have more "impact" and "instructional value".... here they are... get used to them:




You had better learn to enjoy and appreciate them because anytime you attempt to view a commercially produced video from at least six major movie studios, you will not be able to skip or fast forward through the 10 second per logo 'education.'

Will the two screens be shown back to back? Will each screen last for 10 seconds each? Will each screen be unskippable? Yes, yes, and yes.

An ICE spokesman tells me that the two screens will "come up after the previews, once you hit the main movie/play button on the DVD. At which point the movie rating comes up, followed by the IPR Center screen shot for 10 secs and then the FBI/HSI anti-piracy warning for 10 secs as well. Neither can be skipped/fast forwarded through."

Here's the kicker - the hallmark establishment rationale....

The idea isn't to deter current pirates, apparently (the new scheme requires all legal purchasers to sit through 20 seconds of warnings each time they pop in a film, but will be totally absent from pirated downloads and bootlegs). It's to educate everyone else. As ICE Director John Morton announced in a statement yesterday, "Law enforcement must continue to expand how it combats criminal activity; public awareness and education are a critical part of that effort."

I suppose ICE is counting on being more diligent and or successful than the FBI who haven't really been inclined to combat this criminal scourge of piracy... maybe they are hoping we will all learn to hate the pirates so much that we, the citizens' will become their defacto proxies in the war on content theft.

20 seconds of education you pay for, each time you buy a disc. Next I foresee them forcing DVD and Blu-Ray disc manufacturers to include firmware on the machines we buy to 'inject' the notices into ANYTHING you play on your machine..... "Property? What's that? You paid for permission to see the movie.... nothing more!"

reply to post by Maxmars


I can't wait till all these badges and "seals" are nothing more than age old collectors items from a time when the world was less evolved. Kinda like prohibition memorabilia and the good ole sexist/racist paraphernalia from this countries equally dark past.

The whole anti-piracy concept has grown to show that its motivated by greed first and foremost. They say its about principal and law because they know the majority of people won't accept greed as justification for such heinous consequences for ultimately mundane acts.

I would love to see their piracy victims list...I can guarantee you most of them are well off, "victim" is the last word that will come to anyone's mind...

reply to post by Maxmars

20 seconds of education you pay for, each time you buy a disc. Next I foresee them forcing DVD and Blu-Ray disc manufacturers being forced to include firmware to inject the notices into ANYTHING you play on your machine..... "Property? What's that? You paid for permission to see the movie.... nothing more!"

Hah. Might I introduce you to our wonderful friend Cinavia.

Now first, let me admit, I'm a pirate. That said, I'm also the type that actually buys probably 75% of the stuff I pirate. I watch most of my media, legal or otherwise, via my playstation 3.

Cinavia is anti piracy software that was mandated to be installed on all devices capable of playing bluray media (I think pcs are exempt but don't quote me).

Now, with the ps3, this was a silently slipped in feature of a "required system update". But, not all bluray players connect to the internet, nor are all bluray players that are able to be connected, actually connected.

It's preinstalled on all new devices, but...... I've already updated the firmware on my lg home theater, and it's not crazy to think that they could slip that firmware update right onto a bluray.

For example, some ps3 games (probably xbox too) as well as wii games, often check for a specific firmware revision, and if not found, update it before the game installs. This is done without user interaction.

Who is to say, the next bluray disk you put into your player doesn't update it and add cinavia?

And again, out of all the anti-piracy measures out there, cinavia is the ONLY one that affects pirates in any meaningful way. And really, all it means is I can't watch it on 1 device, I could easily watch it on my stand alone divx player and never have an issue.

But all the others only affect the legitimate customers, and are a complete waste of time.

Last time I rented a DVD I endured the disc loading time, anti-piracy screens, non-skippable previews of movies I had already seen, and an overly complex menu structure.

After about 5 minutes, I finally got the movie to play, but by this time, the kids were screaming and I nearly drove off the road! I do not recommend DVDs with this crap, especially in an intense, mobile situation.

And before everyone jumps on me for mucking with the DVD player while driving, other discs (home movies, etc.) I have seen play the movie almost instantly without any user intervention.

reply to post by Maxmars


People who rip from DVD/Bluray don't "remove" those screens. They just aren't included in the rip.

Cinavia means nothing if you're a PC user. It also means nothing if you know how to hack your xbox/ps3.

What do these screens accomplish? As the article states, absolutely nothing for people who rip video - just an annoyance for those who are dumb enough to spend $30 on a bluray disc.

And for the record, I don't really watch very many movies, I would never buy them. I will watch a movie maybe once (usually not even the whole thing, I have stuff to do that's engaging, sitting in front of a screen passively isn't my idea of fun - I don't care how many `splosions I get to see.)

Because the Department of Homeland security doesn't have better things to do than investigate somebody burning a copy of Starship Troopers right? Give me a break, this is part of what DHS does huh? I feel safer already, in fact, I wouldn't mind another dozen or so 3 letter agencies putting government warning labels on everything, that way I could feel safer and know what is right and wrong.

What gets me is that movie companies make a boat load from cinema screenings right? So why are they so bothered by a couple million pirates? If they didn't go on about pirates probably not many people would know about them. I know people that pirate and still go buy the disks because they like having the hard copy. They like the box art etc. I think you will always have those people.

What happens when you lend a dvd to a friend? Are you then supplying a pirate? So what's so different about sharing it with people on the internet? either way the film company sees no money right? If the film is that great then people will pay to see it at the cinema. Film companies can keep it in the cinema for longer (as they tend to do now) and so earn more money!

In my opinion it is most certainly just about greed! How much money are they spending trying to stop pirates? Is it really worth all the time effort and money? How about just produce something that people want to buy? Be creative! Add something of value to the dvd for instance.

reply to post by TinkerHaus

People who rip from DVD/Bluray don't "remove" those screens. They just aren't included in the rip.

Partially true, they are separate video files on the disk and aren't ripped. but that's assuming it's a rip. It could be a dvd iso copy, and they don't remove anything from those.

Cinavia means nothing if you're a PC user. It also means nothing if you know how to hack your xbox/ps3.

Once you hack your ps3 you lose access to the psn (or risk it) and have, effectively, crippled the system, so I really don't consider bricking my ps3 into a 600$ bluray player as an option. Xbox isn't a bluray player, so to my knowledge it doesn't have cinavia enabled.

cinavia is probably the best solution they've come up with so far, even though I hate it. There is no means around it, dvd rip? cam? bluray? it doesn't matter, all copies are "infected". you have to find a player that doesn't have it.

when....

I can buy a divx player for 20$ that doesn't have cinavia on it.

And as for PC users, yeah, keep thinking you are free and clear, cause guess what? you are the next target, they've proven it works for the console views, who is to say Old MacroHard doesn't preinstall it into all their new OS's?

In fact.... Who is to say they don't pre-embed it into the bios on every new motherboard?

So far with cinavia it's been a test. It is working. It will be expanded, it's the only solution that messes with pirates while for the most part, not affecting legitimate users.

reply to post by mee30

In my opinion it is most certainly just about greed! How much money are they spending trying to stop pirates? Is it really worth all the time effort and money? How about just produce something that people want to buy? Be creative! Add something of value to the dvd for instance.

They are spending more fighting it than they are claiming to have lost to it, and all of their claims are one sided and bogus. And now they have the government involved. Think about that. Maybe the next bomber gets by security because they were too busy going through your ipod.

They don't want to adapt to the new digital market, so as with all other advances in technology, they attempt to smother and kill them, but we've grown up and have come to have certain expectations and it appears that we are unwilling to budge on them.

Look at Avengers. It was heavily pirated, one of the top downloads at the time, early release on the internet. Still smashed the box offices wide open.

They are losing money in retail optical disc sales.

I probably posted this before, but I'll give you a run down...

I download the entire run of the x-files illegally. Keep them on my hard drive, maybe burn them to DVD. I lose one? Redownload it. disk goes bad? redownload it. True story.

Then I finally get my hands on the 300$ retail box set, and wipe out all of the downloads as they are now redundant.
But wait, that 300$ box set has, if I recall, 5 bad disks, 5 different disks that have at least 1 episode that is unplayable on any device.

so guess what, not only did I have to spend 300$ on the box set, I STILL have to download it to replace missing episodes, because they won't let me return the box set once opened.

I actually have a huge list of bad dvds, so far the best series was that 70's show, not a single bad disk, x files was the worth, simpsons I've had I think 3, futurama 2, 1 ending of an episode that won't play, then 1 disk with 2 episodes that won't play.

So if I pay, they won't play.
If I pirate, they play on anything I want.

====

Anyways.... Shouldn't more people be up in arms over the wasted resources being piddled away on crap like this? I mean, honestly, this is insane considering the financial climate, war on terror, etc etc.

Why is the government working for corporations? (rhetorical question, I know)...
How much do you reckon it cost us for Immigration to get involved in this private copyright debacle? What scares me about this whole thing, is that we are watching the lines between civil and criminal being dissolved, and we're apparently footing the bill for it.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Cinavia is software level, it will never be implemented into BIOS or your OS.

It will and IS being shipped with bluray software. Just use an old version and don't allow it to update, problem solved.

Additionally, I assure you there will be methods to bypass it in newer versions. I haven't dealt with it at all yet though.

Bottom line.

If I can hear it. I can copy it.

If I can see it. I can copy it.

These methods are simply to keep the already law abiding peons, afraid of the threats.

Nothing more. In this day and age, when artists can direct their movies/music/art DIRECT to the masses, you do NOT need a distributor. All they are doing is making sure that the fat cats who take your work, give you a pittance for it, and then retain all rights to sell your work at their profit, IN POWER.

That's all.

Take back your work, artists... You DO NOT NEED these idiots in the RIAA/MIAA to sell your work, You did 20 years ago, but NOT NOW.

copyright... the first theives were the industry that let you use them to build themselves into such a conglomerate that today, they can attack with impunity any and every thing they deem a threat to their industry. Not you, the artist, but them... the fat bastards that do nothing but have a logo.

Sell you stuff direct. You get 100% profit, and as with any GOOD product, it sells.

watching these souless bastards struggle so hard with technology today, a war that cannot win, is pathetic at best.

Up yours MIAA/RIAA. You're out.

Originally posted by mee30
What happens when you lend a dvd to a friend?

Well in the minds of the big Hollywood studios you'd probably be a heinous criminal who should be fined $250,000 and thrown in jail for 5 years because they couldn't make $25 off your buddy buying the movie himself.

And they really wonder WHY people pirate movies... I mean, if I'm plunking down 25 of my hard earned dollars, I don't want to sit through 5 mins of unskippable movie trailers and then be forced to see that waste of tax $$$'s, which I can't skip through. If I'm paying money to buy the DVD/Blu Ray, then I just want to watch the freakin movie...

Like was said above; I would love to see the "victim" list. I'm pretty sure if they do catch any of these "pirates" then their "victim" is probably rolling up to the courthouse in a Bentley or a Limo...

Oh no, my avatar is a PIRATE ship. Suppose I'd better include the warnings.

Its not the players being programmed, its the innocent buyers of the dvd's. How long before we see them on the television?

There was a time when in the market place there were buyers and sellers. Simple as that. Then, not coincidentally paralleling the rise of corporatism, buyers became more exclusive, and if one wasn't buying goods to turn around to sell, then they were suddenly consumers. Of course, the etyomology of the word consumer informs us that the word has existed since the 15th century, and was used to describe parasitic behavior. Thoughts are things and it was only a matter of time, after decades of corporations insisting on referring to their customer base as "consumers" that some disruptive technology would come along to facilitate consumerism in its truest sense of the word. Tragically, the old fashioned buyer is punished for the actions of the consumer by the corporations that have not a clue how to deal with this new paradigm.

The real tragedy is that the independent artist, particularly musicians, are finding it increasingly difficult to find a fan base large enough to sell their music digitally and they have to resort to merchandizing and other avenues to generate revenue. It is also a problem for independent filmmakers, and while there are exceptions, such as Louis C.K.'s wild success in marketing his own stand up comedy film over the internet, this success was largely due to the fact that Louis C.K. was a known comedian. The unknown all too often has to resign themselves to the sad fact that if they want to be known they have to give their artistic efforts away and hope down the road they can build a big enough fan base to somehow eek out a living.

Its easy to criticise when you don't have any value in your intellect.
This is the age of ideas - intellectual property in ideas, innovation, technology, art ought to be respected.

A significant part of the rise of China is blatant unremitting theft of intellectual property.
While stealing of copyright content at home is not in the same league as the Chinese theft, it is theft regardless.

reply to post by bulldetector


Theft is theft. That much is true, but the other truth is this 'lesson in awareness' is not going to deter theft. Even those mandating the 'warning' admit it. So what is the point except the justification of more government?

Perhaps combating theft would be better served by actually dealing with the criminals, not the public at large.

However, since they have proved completely incapable of doing that - they cannot justify their own drain on our public resources... so here we are ... with them "showing" us that they're doing "something" while explicitly admitting that it's not going to help. Am I missing something, or is that really how we expect our taxes to be used... to make a "show" of it.?

I do not condone criminality... nor do I condone the use of public funds to support a dying business model and her entrenched oligarchs and technocrats flailing about to keep the status quo that hardly serves the actual creators of the content in question.... it's only service is to allow them and their corporate model to be a 'gatekeeper' that artist either buy into or not.

The truth is (in my opinion) that if people are entertained they will be more than willing to pay.. and those who won't - would not have either way. Net result... taxes are used to make big media 'feel' better... so sorry, so sad.

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by bulldetector

 

Theft is theft. That much is true, but the other truth is this 'lesson in awareness' is not going to deter theft. Even those mandating the 'warning' admit it. So what is the point except the justification of more government?

Perhaps combating theft would be better served by actually dealing with the criminals, not the public at large.

However, since they have proved completely incapable of doing that - they cannot justify their own drain on our public resources... so here we are ... with them "showing" us that they're doing "something" while explicitly admitting that it's not going to help. Am I missing something, or is that really how we expect our taxes to be used... to make a "show" of it.?

I do not condone criminality... nor do I condone the use of public funds to support a dying business model and her entrenched oligarchs and technocrats flailing about to keep the status quo that hardly serves the actual creators of the content in question.... it's only service is to allow them and their corporate model to be a 'gatekeeper' that artist either buy into or not.

The truth is (in my opinion) that if people are entertained they will be more than willing to pay.. and those who won't - would not have either way. Net result... taxes are used to make big media 'feel' better... so sorry, so sad.

Pretty muddled respose. No-one will pay for that particular content. You try to skate around the performer or content creator by painting them as the victim of their evil corporate masters. Please. That isn't the reality. If you are a musician, joe public steals your property. It isn't the dying business model crucifying the artist, it is common technology and a non-thinking public. Look at the wealth of the pre-digital age musicians - Elton John, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elvis, Beatles. They mananged to get billions from the evil corporate masters.

Mandating a short warning to be put on content is barely any cost to the government. A tiny production cost for the 20 second warning.

Originally posted by bulldetector

Pretty muddled respose. No-one will pay for that particular content. You try to skate around the performer or content creator by painting them as the victim of their evil corporate masters. Please. That isn't the reality. If you are a musician, joe public steals your property. It isn't the dying business model crucifying the artist, it is common technology and a non-thinking public. Look at the wealth of the pre-digital age musicians - Elton John, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elvis, Beatles. They mananged to get billions from the evil corporate masters.

Mandating a short warning to be put on content is barely any cost to the government. A tiny production cost for the 20 second warning.

My, how clearly we don't see eye to eye. My point is it should not cost the government ANYTHING (especially to do something they already know is not going to work - as they themselves admit.)

The industry must adapt or fail.

Art is created with or without commercial controls. And those pre-digital artists you mention made more for their "corporate masters" as you call them, than they did themselves... so much so that even the Beatles were compelled to create their own corporate "middleman.". But I suppose you are believer in the paradigm of middlemen... how nothing should or can happen without their intervention and control. We disagree...

Off hand I cant remember which ones but a group of mainstream british musicians said that any songs of theirs that were pirated resulted in a 15% increase in sales because more people heard the song and if they genuinly liked it they were more likely to buy it.

I dont believe the BIG companies dont know about this so one has to wonder why? I suspect those figures would not be the same for movies though as they are more expensive.