Biblical Authorship: Absence of the Authors

There are many stories in the Bible. All through out the bible their are many conversations that take place. In many of these conversations, the author was not present.

For example: The Book of Job. God and Satan make a wager on Job's faithfulness. This takes place in a heavenly realm. The author who penned this story was not present. How did he/she know what transpired in those heavenly places?

Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane praying. The disciples were asleep. How did the author know what Jesus prayed as there was no one there witnessing it? Did Jesus come back to them and dictate to them all that he had just prayed?

During creation, the author could not have witnessed what god said during creation, nor could he have witnessed all the conversations that took place in the garden. Did god dictate to him what was said?

There are many examples of this occurring in the bible. Christians say this is god's word, but is it only stories written by fallible man as the remember hearing them?

Let's look at the resurrection stories, as I have discussed before. They all have discrepancies amongst themselves. Now, if there had only been one gospel written instead of four, the resurrection story of that gospel would be the "exact" way it happened, correct? Yet when we read all four and see the discrepancies, the answer is, "They wrote the events according to how they heard/saw them, that's why there are discrepancies.

Now, I wonder if there were four authors to EVERY biblical story in the bible, how many discrepancies there would be and which one out of the four would be the most accurate?

If god authored the bible, did he author all the books besides the gospels to be the correct way things actually happened, but when he authored the gospels he allowed discrepancies? If he didn't author it, why call it "god's word"?

From the christian viewpoint, The author was there for each and every book. That author being the Holy Spirit, who "inspired" each account given by the human authors.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

reply to post by Klassified


Yep, and His "fingerprint" running through every book, every letter of the text, is the heptadic structure and ELS codes.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Klassified

 

Yep, and His "fingerprint" running through every book, every letter of the text, is the heptadic structure and ELS codes.

I don't claim to understand this paper, but these authors seem to have debunked the Bible code:

A paper of Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg in this journal in 1994 made the extraordinary claim that the Hebrew text of the Book of Genesis encodes events which did not occur until millennia after the text was written. In reply, we argue that Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg’s case is fatally defective, indeed that their result merely reflects on the choices made in designing their experiment and collecting the data for it. We present extensive evidence in support of that conclusion. We also report on many new experiments of our own, all of which failed to detect the alleged phenomenon.

Solving the Bible Code Puzzle

Originally posted by Klassified
From the christian viewpoint, The author was there for each and every book. That author being the Holy Spirit, who "inspired" each account given by the human authors.

That is true, but lets not forget that the Holy Spirit is not a physical being like you or me. So the book of Job, for example, would still need a person to author the book.

If a tree inspires me to write a book about the beauty in nature, who is actually writing the book: the tree, or me?

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by Klassified
From the christian viewpoint, The author was there for each and every book. That author being the Holy Spirit, who "inspired" each account given by the human authors.

That is true, but lets not forget that the Holy Spirit is not a physical being like you or me. So the book of Job, for example, would still need a person to author the book.

If a tree inspires me to write a book about the beauty in nature, who is actually writing the book: the tree, or me?

I might be inclined to agree with you. But from the christian perspective, the Holy Spirit is not a tree. He is a person, and in essence, God himself. Therefore, unlike the tree, he can speak to the individuals spirit. So yes, human author, but guided by the Holy Spirit.

Your example of being inspired by a tree is a good one, but inspiration, in this case, means a more direct involvement. Even if the author isn't always aware of that involvement.

Yep, the bible sure was written by men. Which is why a book written 3500 years ago has Osama Bin Laden, Hitler, JFK and many more people written in the text of the Tenach and Torah which is impossible.



The military and national security agency don't think the book is fairytales and bullsh*t anymore, especially not when the Osama Bin Laden's name and the twin towers of the world trade center appear in 3500 year old texts. Yeah it was definately written by men alright, who just happened to not know squat about math because it hadn't been invented yet but they were able to know all about Osama Bin Laden and Hitler and well, pretty much every major figure and event in history.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The actual truth about the Bible codes was finally revealed by statistical analysis: they do not just exist in the Pentateuch; they are found everywhere. ELS codes are found with approximately equal frequency in the Book of Genesis, the Qur'an, Tolstoy's "War and Peace," or in any sufficiently long text written in any language -- probably even in this web site which totals over 250 megabytes of text and HTML coding.

I won't say it's impossible. But I find it unlikely. Both sides of this debate do have an interest in owning the other.

Source

ETA:

Prominent scholars dismiss these as illegitimate, noting that no one has a letter-by-letter version of the Bible as it was originally written. Even the oldest surviving manuscripts include slight variations, any of which would throw off computer test results.

Source

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The actual truth about the Bible codes was finally revealed by statistical analysis: they do not just exist in the Pentateuch; they are found everywhere. ELS codes are found with approximately equal frequency in the Book of Genesis, the Qur'an, Tolstoy's "War and Peace," or in any sufficiently long text written in any language -- probably even in this web site which totals over 250 megabytes of text and HTML coding.

I won't say it's impossible. But I find it unlikely. Both sides of this debate do have an interest in owning the other.

Source

ETA:

Prominent scholars dismiss these as illegitimate, noting that no one has a letter-by-letter version of the Bible as it was originally written. Even the oldest surviving manuscripts include slight variations, any of which would throw off computer test results.

Source

edit on 5/10/2012 by Klassified because: eta and add sources

Doesn't matter if it's letter by letter to the original one, the fact that these names are turning up in these ancient texts thousands of years before hand is proof of it's own. You think God cannot fix what we F up?

reply to post by Klassified

From the christian viewpoint, The author was there for each and every book. That author being the Holy Spirit, who "inspired" each account given by the human authors.

Yes, and that is one glaring reason some of us would like a description, and some facts concerning this "Holy Spirit". I have seen some who stated they had this Holy Spirit, and they did things unbecoming a Christian, things like setting a bomb to kill a preacher's girlfriend's parents in the car one tome about 15 years ago. I explored some of these reason in my Is the "Holy Spirit" in Reality a Demon? thread. To me anyway, a person having the Holy Spirit is possessed by an undefined inferior spirit being. This is where all of those wild demon possession stories came from.

Speaking of Bible Codes, didn't they do the same thing with Moby Dick?

When you say that the holy spirit inspired these men to write, what exactly do you mean? Did he tell them what to write? If not, why do you call it god's word? If he did tell them what to write, why did he tell them different accounts of the resurrection?

Did the holy spirit tell the author of Job what happened in the heavens between Satan and God? Did the holy spirit sit down with Moses and dictate the creation stories, and all other stories leading up to his time on earth? Did the holy spirit communicate to these authors clearly and concisely so that the author understood what was said? Even today, people say that the holy spirit told them something, yet they get it wrong. Were these authors just as human as we are today, and just as fallible?

I guess what I'm asking is, what does it mean that the authors were inspired by the holy spirit?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Doesn't matter if it's letter by letter to the original one, the fact that these names are turning up in these ancient texts thousands of years before hand is proof of it's own. You think God cannot fix what we F up?

Moby Dick predicts assassinations?

cs.anu.edu.au...

El Doble.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Doesn't matter if it's letter by letter to the original one, the fact that these names are turning up in these ancient texts thousands of years before hand is proof of it's own.

The question is, ARE they turning up in these ancient texts? Or can the same thing be done with the Quran, or the Mahabharat? According to many sources, yes. There are two sides to this story. And proof of this is in short supply from what I've read and seen so far.

reply to post by autowrench

That is one way of looking at it. And I wouldn't say you're wrong. I've often wondered if some are just "self-possessed".

Seriously though, I think we all underestimate the idea of a collective consciousness. And I often think it is this that many call god. Just a ponderance.

reply to post by autowrench

unbecoming a Christian, things like setting a bomb to kill a preacher's girlfriend's parents in the car one tome about 15 years ago. I explored some of these reason in my Is the "Holy Spirit" in Reality a Demon? thread. To me anyway, a person having the Holy Spirit is possessed by an undefined inferior spirit being. This is where all of those wild demon possession stories came from.

Star is not good enough....ergo, BUMP.
Thanks, auto.....

reply to post by Hydroman

No, I think it was "War and Peace" they Navy guys did it with. The coding is not an exact science by any means. Hydroman, I like your style, you should have been a psychologist, or a detective.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by autowrench

 

That is one way of looking at it. And I wouldn't say you're wrong. I've often wondered if some are just "self-possessed".

Seriously though, I think we all underestimate the idea of a collective consciousness. And I often think it is this that many call god. Just a ponderance.

Yes, that is a good analogy, Klassified. "Self possessed". I like that. From a psychological point of view, it certainly fits too, doesn't it? And I agree with you that we all underestimate the Divine, and we always will, until we personally encounter it face to face. I do not think the "Collective Consciousness is God, it is rather an Magnetic Energy Field that surround Earth. Everyone is born with a default connection to it. some never do anything to enhance this connection. Some do make their connection larger, with more input, and some make new, and better connections to the collective. Too many connections may cause problems in some, such as information overload. I get this myself once in awhile.

reply to post by Hydroman

what does it mean that the authors were inspired by the holy spirit?

The christian believes the Holy Spirit guided the authors of scripture by giving them understanding of spiritual concepts and truths where needed, and by direct revelation where needed. Inspiration in this context has more to do with the understanding of concepts. So, the writer might have explained something in his own words, but the ability and understanding to do so came from the Holy Spirit. Direct revelation was needed when the author was recounting something he was obviously not a firsthand witness of, and of course, for prophecy.

That's the brief explanation, anyway.

reply to post by Klassified


Don't forget to factor a few things into the equation. The Jews are spending considerable money to paint the ELS codes in a bad light today who in year past were the ones who located the codes. It's because they found the Name "Yeshua" plastered all over the Torah and you could imaging their horror at that discovery. And also, that snippet that is trying to debunk the ELS codes is being dishonest, what is remarkable about the ELS codes is they are clustered around the plain-text verse, or in the case of the Isaiah 53 codes they are just 12 verses of text.

The best evidential documentary is "Cosmic Codes" by Dr. Missler. His area of expertise is Information Tech.