Let's assume we were on a Rogue planet

Reply to post by muse7

As someone else said, it really is a fascinating thing to think about lol

But what if they just didn't keep time? Assuming life has evolved to a degree that could actually comprehend "time", doesn't mean they would use it. We do because it makes sense. Could they not just "be"? As in, no sense of a night/day sleep/awake pattern, only sleeping, eating, etc when it was beneficial to them. Without our sun would we even hae time- granted we wouldn't be we lol- but it seems logical that the only reason we actual "measure" it is because we had a physical object that we could actually track in a physical way. I don't know.. Good post


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reply to post by muse7

According to this theory, that might be possible.



www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by muse7
wondering through the universe, not belonging to a solar system or orbiting any star.

How would we measure time? Our whole time measurement is based on the Earth's orbit around the sun.

1 full orbit around the sun = 365 days = 1 year
1 full rotation of the earth = 1 day.

if we were on a rogue planet, we wouldn't have a sun, and we wouldn't have anything on which to base our time measurement.

This makes me think that time is not a property of the universe but only a human invention

There wouldn't be day and night but you could still measure time.

You could simulate it with a watch or some other rotating object and base it off that.

reply to post by muse7

How would we measure time? Our whole time measurement is based on the Earth's orbit around the sun.

We would invent a measurement system. Our fundamental unit of time measurement, the second, while once based on solar observation, is now defined by the transition between two states of a 133Cs atom.

This makes me think that time is not a property of the universe but only a human invention

Time is a property of the universe, just as distance is. The means of measuring time are a human invention.

reply to post by buttle2000

According to this theory, that might be possible.

According to that "theory" things are spherical because they all used to be stars...

Where's a facepalm when you need one?

@ the OP. Time is relative to the observer. The universe is governed by entropy, if a star could think it would form some opinion of time on how long it took to burn it's reserves and eventually change to another state.

For humans, we look at the sun and how often we rotate around it. And as another poster mentioned, we now look at atomic clocks.

Stephen hawking does a few mental exercises about things like this in some of his books. All of which make absolutely no sense to the human mind because in alternate dimensions that have no time, or have limited dimensions, humans could not exist.

Time is something that exists because it is part of the fundamental physics that rule the universe. If there is no time, there would be no entropy, and the universe would be freezeframed. Humans couldn't really exist in a freezeframe. We would not be able to think, act, move, etc.

If there were humans simply on a rock somewhere floating through space, they would be able to make a judgement on time related to some process of entropy. Energy is constantly changing state or doing something that gives one state a beginning and an end.

reply to post by buttle2000


I just find it funny that the video uses the fact the Earth is older than the Sun to postulate God does not exist. In the bible what is created first, the Earth or the Sun? I'll give you a hint, it's not the Sun. Therefore scientific proof the Earth came before the Sun is evidence in support of the Bible, not against.

Back to the topic at hand, time exists and is not a human construct. Just like distance exists, and is not a human construct. The way in which you measure them is a human construct. Time would exist and would eventually be measured, perhaps by their sleep cycles.

reply to post by muse7

Time is Relative but even in a scenario such as you have presented...time can be calculated by Radioactive Decay. This is how we keep time now to be certain of slowdowns in Earths Orbit around the Sun. At one time an Earth Day was more that 24 Hours...it was at one time 26 hours and even before that 28 hours.

With Atomic Clocks we can precisely measure time by Neutron Decay of a Radioactive Isotopse. This decay is how we also use Carbon-14 to determine how old Organic Matter is...and it is very precise.

Time however is relative as in several experiments...Two Atomic Clocks were placed in synch. One was put aboard the Space Shuttle and the other left on Earth. The Shuttle Orbits the Earth at over 18,000 mph as well as being in Spacial Orbit.

When the Shuttle returned to Earth the two clocks were compared and it was found that the clock aboard the Shuttle was behind in time a Micro amount. This means that Forward Time Travel is Possible! The Astronauts actually traveled forward in time by a very small amout of time as the clock on Earth showed that a greater amount of time had passed than the clock aboard the Shuttle.

The Faster you go and the further away from a Gravity Well...ie...Planet Earth...you travel...you will Travel Forward in Time relative to the passage of Time on Earth. Traveling Back in Time is a bit more Complex as it has the issues of Paradox thus it is postulated that Backward time Travel would avoid Paradox by moving you into a Divergent Universal Reality to avoid Paradox. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I agree with everything except that being proof forward time travel is possible. I think it may be possible, this simply is not an instance of it. This is proven by the fact that the shuttle was observed from Earth for the entire duration, therefore the shuttle experienced time at a slower rate, but did not travel forward in time.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

If you experience one hour of time and come back to Earth and a Year has passed...this is a form of Time Travel.
Split Infinity

If light is truly a constant, it could always be based off of that. Sounds like a great universal constant to me.

Originally posted by muse7
wondering through the universe, not belonging to a solar system or orbiting any star.

How would we measure time? Our whole time measurement is based on the Earth's orbit around the sun.

1 full orbit around the sun = 365 days = 1 year
1 full rotation of the earth = 1 day.

if we were on a rogue planet, we wouldn't have a sun, and we wouldn't have anything on which to base our time measurement.

This makes me think that time is not a property of the universe but only a human invention

First of all, I doubt any lifeform could evolve on such a planet where they would care that much to measure time.

Secondly, time is a part of the Universe but you seem to be confusing our measurement of it with the thing itself.

Back in the day, they measured it with various things, from the passage of the Sun across the Sky, to the motion of the moon, it's phases etc. In fact, this is why many earlier calendars fell out of synch with the seasons as they were lunar calendars, so they ended up with Summer moving to different months over long periods of time, so much they had to insert and remove months to make up for it.

So, the long and short of it is, as explained by others too, is that people will use whatever they can to measure time, be it the start of a season, the first bloom of a certain flower, the passage of a celestial body, whatever. So on your mystery world, should life even manage to evolve, they too would use any natural cycle they could find.

What ever oscillations gave rise to the observing organism would become the basis of it's time reference.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
When the Shuttle returned to Earth the two clocks were compared and it was found that the clock aboard the Shuttle was behind in time a Micro amount. This means that Forward Time Travel is Possible! The Astronauts actually traveled forward in time by a very small amout of time as the clock on Earth showed that a greater amount of time had passed than the clock aboard the Shuttle.

Er, no. The shuttle did not travel forward in time, merely the clock on board the shuttle experienced time slower than the clock on earth due to relativity. However, the Shuttle left earth at X time and arrived back precisely when it was expected too. It did not travel forward in time (well, if we're going to get technical, we're all travelling forward in time, but it did not arrive in the future ahead of when it was meant too)

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
If you experience one hour of time and come back to Earth and a Year has passed...this is a form of Time Travel.
Split Infinity

Well, yes, but that isn't what happened, was it? The clock measured time at a slower rate than the earth clock, but the shuttle still arrived back on earth precisely when it was meant to. It didn't just disappear from our universe and materialise in the future.

Humans did indeed INVENT how we MEASURE time, but that does not mean that time itself is human invention.

My computer monitor is 19inches wide, humans invented how we measure that distance (inches), but distance wasnt invented by us

If we were on a rogue planet and some how evolved on that planet, we would INVENT a way to MEASURE the passage of time based on events that occur often enough to notice

Very interesting book, that may shed some light on this topic is Uriel's Machine

Uriel's Machine shows how a prehistoric unit of measurement (the Megalithic Yard), accurate to a fraction of a millimetre, is derived from observational astronomy and explains how it can be duplicated by anybody who wishes to repeat the simple experiments, described in the book.

What if written evidence in the Dead Sea Scrolls records megalithic history in Western Europe and provides the plans for a machine that could rebuild civilisation following a global catastrophe?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

If you experience one hour of time and come back to Earth and a Year has passed...this is a form of Time Travel.
Split Infinity

So would cryogenics be time travel? No. This is not a form of time travel. The shuttle was observed from Earth for the entire duration, it did not jump forward in time. It experienced time in a different way, it did not travel through it.

Edit: Stumason already summed it up accurately, clearly not time travel.

reply to post by stumason

The Two Atomic Clocks work by measuring the decay of neutrons. The amount of Netron Decay that occured in the Clock on the Shuttle was less than the Clock on Earth. Time did not slow down aboard the Shuttle...as if it did...this would mean that the rate of decay of Neutrons would take longer to occur and this is impossible as the Decay Rate is constant.

Also...this would also mean that Light or Photon would also slow down and observed experiments of Laser Light targeted at various instruments would also record a change in Lights Velocity as well as Radio Wave communication between shuttle astronauts.

Time remained a constant aboard the shuttle and time passed in the same manner and even if the Shuttles Speed and Distance from Earth was increased say...as example to 50% Light Speed and a 1 Light Year Distance from Earth....Physics would react in a constant state of Action and reaction as well as there would be no Atomic Neutron Decay occuring at any different constant than the time passed.

However...much more Time would pass on Earth Due to Time Dialation as when an object of Mass increases Speed and distance away from a Gravity Well such as the Earth or Earths Solar System...this object is less effected by such Gravity Wells or expressions of One Dimentionality. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


We understand, the only one who does not understand is you. Time dilation is not time travel. In your scenario, if we find a way to "freeze" time, and a ship is "frozen" in this method for 100 years while people came and looked at it, you are saying the ship travelled through time to the future, when in actuality it did not. It is the exact opposite actually. Rather than speeding through time, time has slowed down for you.

What about for the person experiencing that time dilation? If one were travelling near the speed of light, he/she will age less than people back on Earth. Technically time travel didn't happen but time definitely did change for the person experiencing it, so for them, it'd feel sorta like time travel.