I am an Orthodox Christian and Historian; Almost Everything Most Know About The Church is False, page 9


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reply posted on 3-5-2012 @ 02:06 PM by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Seede


Congratulations on your upcoming milestone. I hope you are in decent health. I will share a few thoughts for your discernment.

I often wondered if Adolph Hitler was loved by God at any time? Can a person have salvation and then lose it?


I read a book written by a exorcist that said Hitler was possessed. Would be a surprise to see him in Heaven, wouldn't it?

I believe a person can throw away their salvation at any point of their life. People get angry with God and choose to blame him for their misery, never forgiving him, others go with the material word and make the choice for mammon over God.


I'm going to be a happy idiot
And struggle for the legal tender
Where the ads take aim and lay their claim
To the heart and the soul of the spender
And believe in whatever may lie
In those things that money can buy
Thought true love could have been a contender


lyrics from "The Pretender" Jackson Browne

Sadly, there are people who chose to be atheists and denounce their faith. For me, God became such a tiny part of my life even though I did not deny him I certainly left him.



If a little baby is killed as a little baby and has no chance to proclaim its love for Christ Jesus, is that child simply erased or will it ever be given the same choice as I have had? Would it be fair to give one human a better chance at salvation than any other human?


Wouldn't heaven be a lovely place to grow up?

Luke 18:16
But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.




What happens to a guy who has never heard of Jesus or God?



Great question. I go with my heart to answer this one. I believe a just, loving God will introduce Himself to those who don't know Him when they die. How could it be any other way? I may get stoned for that comment, but that is what I believe.

I am Catholic and we believe in Purgatory. Every day I pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for souls most in need of God's mercy, living and deceased.

Our just God loves us beyond all telling. Certainly, He can judge the difference between evil and good. I believe the good always get a chance. I believe your friends that died on the battlefield got a chance to know and choose for or against Christ when they met him. People may argue differently, but I will never put limitations on the love of God that we barely scratch the surface of understanding.


reply posted on 3-5-2012 @ 06:58 PM by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by sacgamer25


"I believe in the church Christ started. The bible clearly states that we are the temple. It is by the power of God the bible was written, preserved, and delivered to me. Every church claims that they are the truth and not a denomination but they all add titles to their church. Eastern Orthodoxy sounds like a denomination of Christianity. I am a Christian and so are you, we are part of the same church and it matters not what denomination you want to label yourself with."

Please understand that Orthodoxy is pre-denominational. There was only one Church originally. That church never changed, it's only called Orthodoxy because groups split off and did things differently, changing the Church of the Apostles into whatever they chose. Orthodoxy simply never changed. It rightly claims to be the original Church because it WAS. It is provable in 1000 ways historically and biblically.
edit on 3-5-2012 by TruthSeekerMike because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 3-5-2012 @ 07:05 PM by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by ChuckNasty


LOL. We say "Lord have mercy" enough that I firmly believe Jesus would spare us the whipping.

You honestly have zero clue what you're talking about. But thanks for sharing a perfectly conditioned response.



reply posted on 3-5-2012 @ 07:06 PM by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike



great post Mike. I am in full agreement with much of what you said. I would love to continue a conversation with you. I think this helps people who have preconceived notions about Christianity to clear things up. So often an objection to Christianity is towards the RCC and Papacy AND the institution of church. When in reality I think more people would come to Christ if they only knew the truth. Well done on the post!


reply posted on 3-5-2012 @ 07:15 PM by TruthSeekerMike
Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by freedom12


Hold on.

Give us something to base this James on...they debunked the supposed crypt they found him in, saying the letters were carved after the actual ceremony (I mean a long while after) so they say that James isn't really the brother of Jesus.

Do you have evidence to contradict this? What did they miss?


James was the first Bishop of Jerusalem and was martyred. It is mentioned in Acts that there was a dispute over circumcision and James presided over the first council of the Church to help resolve it, "it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit". That is why you don't have to be circumcised to be Christian. He has always been known as "Brother of the Lord", he was Joseph's son from his first marriage and was quite a bit older than Jesus. He also wrote one of the books of the Bible.


reply posted on 4-5-2012 @ 11:59 AM by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by monkcaw


I know, they either really want to hide it, or honestly have no idea about it and just kinda make something up because they figure no one cares anyway.
Are you a monk?
I do lots of volunteer work for and regularly attend the Divine Liturgy at a new monastery down the road from me.
Please keep The Entrance of the Theotokos Monastery in your prayers. (funny and ironic side note, the spell correcter on firefox suggests "theosophist" and marks "Theotokos" as a misspelling.)


reply posted on 4-5-2012 @ 12:00 PM by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun

Thank you. I'd love to continue a conversation with you too. Please feel free to shoot me a message.


reply posted on 5-5-2012 @ 01:26 PM by sacgamer25
Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by freedom12


Hold on.

Give us something to base this James on...they debunked the supposed crypt they found him in, saying the letters were carved after the actual ceremony (I mean a long while after) so they say that James isn't really the brother of Jesus.

Do you have evidence to contradict this? What did they miss?


James was the first Bishop of Jerusalem and was martyred. It is mentioned in Acts that there was a dispute over circumcision and James presided over the first council of the Church to help resolve it, "it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit". That is why you don't have to be circumcised to be Christian. He has always been known as "Brother of the Lord", he was Joseph's son from his first marriage and was quite a bit older than Jesus. He also wrote one of the books of the Bible.


But you do have to be circumcised to be Christian and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ said that not one letter would be removed for the law, but rather the law would be made perfect through him. What Christ revealed was a better circumcision, one that could lead a man to Holiness.

The new circumcision is to be born again. This is the circumcision of the flesh from the spirit. Unfortunately many who claim to be born again have no idea what born again even means.

Although I do agree with much of the Orthodox belief in Thesis, I still believe that the church has convoluted the message with the abundance of rules and traditions. These rules and traditions have become law and thus nullified the power of the Holy Spirit. People have come to believe that it is through obeying the tradition of the church that one enters the Kingdom of Heaven. It is my belief that the only way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven is to listen to the Holy Spirit within you that guides each of us to the truth.

Since the Holy Spirit is found in man and we are the temple, the large expensive buildings do nothing to bring anyone closer to God. Too many people see church as a special place where you go to receive Christ. You receive Christ in your heart and you need only to believe to receive. It is not until you believe the Holy Spirit lives in you and teaches you all things that you can stop going trying to find God.

I also strongly believe that the hierarchy of the church creates a caste system where the average church goers never believe that he/she can have the same relationship with Christ that the priest have. We should all believe that we can have a personal relationship with Christ and that he will guide us all equally to the fathers will.


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 11:48 AM by TruthSeekerMike
Originally posted by sacgamer25
Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by freedom12


Hold on.

Give us something to base this James on...they debunked the supposed crypt they found him in, saying the letters were carved after the actual ceremony (I mean a long while after) so they say that James isn't really the brother of Jesus.

Do you have evidence to contradict this? What did they miss?


James was the first Bishop of Jerusalem and was martyred. It is mentioned in Acts that there was a dispute over circumcision and James presided over the first council of the Church to help resolve it, "it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit". That is why you don't have to be circumcised to be Christian. He has always been known as "Brother of the Lord", he was Joseph's son from his first marriage and was quite a bit older than Jesus. He also wrote one of the books of the Bible.


But you do have to be circumcised to be Christian and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ said that not one letter would be removed for the law, but rather the law would be made perfect through him. What Christ revealed was a better circumcision, one that could lead a man to Holiness.

The new circumcision is to be born again. This is the circumcision of the flesh from the spirit. Unfortunately many who claim to be born again have no idea what born again even means.

Although I do agree with much of the Orthodox belief in Thesis, I still believe that the church has convoluted the message with the abundance of rules and traditions. These rules and traditions have become law and thus nullified the power of the Holy Spirit. People have come to believe that it is through obeying the tradition of the church that one enters the Kingdom of Heaven. It is my belief that the only way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven is to listen to the Holy Spirit within you that guides each of us to the truth.

Since the Holy Spirit is found in man and we are the temple, the large expensive buildings do nothing to bring anyone closer to God. Too many people see church as a special place where you go to receive Christ. You receive Christ in your heart and you need only to believe to receive. It is not until you believe the Holy Spirit lives in you and teaches you all things that you can stop going trying to find God.

I also strongly believe that the hierarchy of the church creates a caste system where the average church goers never believe that he/she can have the same relationship with Christ that the priest have. We should all believe that we can have a personal relationship with Christ and that he will guide us all equally to the fathers will.



I think many of you are simply afraid of the truth and try to make things up to make yourselves feel better. Basically nothing you've said has any merit whatsoever. I go to an Orthodox Church in an old Signs By Tomorrow building and we don't think we're somehow less God-fearing than the Baptists down the road with their $12million building and ballfields. What if you think you've found the Holy Spirit and you've found a demon? How would you know? Personal interpretation of the Bible as handed down from the Church? If you don't trust the Church how can you possibly trust the Bible? Sheeple crack me up with their sheepish ways.


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 12:13 PM by Starchild23
reply to post by sacgamer25


No. Belief is a very bad word for it. Belief implies that the thing being believed in is just made up. Realizing...now there's the key. Because there is no belief involved with truth. Either you know the truth, or you believe a lie.

Christ is not the key. He was an example, but WE are the key. Christ does nothing if we do not focus on the changes in ourselves. Christ does not need to be present, remembered, or even named in order for someone to become like him.

A dead man makes no difference. All he does is set a marker, an example. All we have to do is emulate it in our own way. And even then, so many say it's the end of the road once that happens. They don't realize that this life is barely a single step of a hundred miles. There is so much yet to do, and we're just barely getting started...
edit on CSundaypm373714f14America/Chicago06 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 12:33 PM by sacgamer25
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


Who is the teacher?

1 John 2:26-27
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

1 Corinthians 2:10
"But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."

John 14:26
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you."

JOHN 16:13
"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH ..."

2 Cor. 13:14,
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."



Look no mention of the Holy Spirit teaching the church. All of these verses confirm that scripture is not to private interpretation, the church is a group of people who claim exclusive understanding of scripture. By the very nature of that claim and yours, you have decided that your church holds the only correct interpretation, thus making it of Private Interpretation to your church. This is not what scripture says. It says that everyone who believes will be taught by the Holy Spirit. Scripture itself tells the reader how to distinguish between the Holy Spirit and the Spirits of this world.


Colossians 1 24:27 24 26 This message was kept SECRET FOR CENTURIES AND GENERATIONS PAST, but now it has been revealed to God’s people. 27 For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: CHRIST LIVES IN YOU. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.

Hebrews 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.


You see I need no one to teach me because Christ lives in me. This is EXACTLY what scripture says. I don't need any special gift of interpretation to understand the top two verses. What I did need is faith to believe that Christ lives in me and wanted to teach me all things. Do you believe that Christ lives in you, talks to you, and will teach you all things?


1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.


This verse is also clear. This was written to all Christians, not just the church and priests. Every Christian is part of a royal priesthood. We should be all sharing our knowledge and gifts with each of our brothers. There is no need for a preacher, because we are all priests. All believers our taught by the Holy Spirit, when we gather we should take turns sharing our gifts and knowledge. We should also bring to light our struggles. The church meetings in the bible are described as meetings where all believers participate so that everyone in attendance may be built up in their faith and encouraged to overcome their struggles.


1 Corinthians 3:18-23 18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future —all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.


Do you see this? No more boasting about human leaders. You are doing just that, you have put your faith in a group of people who claim to have rights to the private interpretation of the bible. They make the claim that they are the true church that is here to share the true message. The true message is Christ is in you and that you are to follow the Holy Spirit and you don't need a man to teach you because Christ himself will be your teacher.

You have listened to a church and follow it's traditions. You believe that by following the traditions of the church that you will enter heaven. The traditions of the church have become a law for you, so that you focus on obeying the traditions of the church in order to be saved. This is not the message in the bible. The bible says the path to salvation is to listen to the Holy Spirit and do what it says. No one can be made perfect by obeying the law, but Christ said that not one letter of the law would go away. How is this possible? The Holy Spirit makes this possible. For those like you, who choose to live under the law make the effort to obtain heaven by your own power. Because you are imperfect you simply cannot obey the law as God intended.

The bible says that many were blameless under the law, meaning they had never broken the law, but Jesus said unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees you will not enter heaven. If you listen to the Holy Spirit, the very spirit of Christ, and always do what it says you will certainly never break God's law. It is only by the teaching of the Holy Spirit that one can truly learn to love his neighbor as himself.

Sheeple is a term that is reserved for those who blindly follow others to their demise. You have followed a church that believes that it has the exclusive right to a private interpretation of the bible. I have followed the instruction in scripture and believed that Christ lives in me and teaches me all things. If I am a Sheeple, I am a Sheeple of the Holy Spirit and will continue to be guided by the Holy Spirit in me.
edit on 6-5-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 12:36 PM by Starchild23
reply to post by sacgamer25


Awesome posts. It makes a lot of sense.

If only the sheeple actually listened...they might wake up after reading your stuff.


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 12:37 PM by Starchild23
reply to post by sacgamer25


You see I need no one to teach me because Christ lives in me. This is EXACTLY what scripture says. I don't need any special gift of interpretation to understand the top two verses. What I did need is faith to believe that Christ lives in me and wanted to teach me all things.


Do you mean to say the Christ Consciousness is always within us...we just have to embrace it?

Is this what you mean?


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 01:45 PM by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by sacgamer25


Wow. What you fail to see is the original status of Orthodoxy. If people didn't have those early fathers like Paul (who wrote the epistles you reference to Orthodox Churches) they wouldn't have anything to interpret. You say scripture isn't open to private interpretation but proceed to deliver your own private interpretation. There are 20,000 denominations who firmly believe they are the only ones interpreting scripture correctly but the original church, the authors of the Bible, the 12, the 70, those who were in the room at Pentecost, those baptized that day, the martyrs, and the early councils are wrong?
I'll bet you can't find the notion of sola scriptura in the Bible but it underpins everything you've said.


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 01:46 PM by TruthSeekerMike
Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by sacgamer25


You see I need no one to teach me because Christ lives in me. This is EXACTLY what scripture says. I don't need any special gift of interpretation to understand the top two verses. What I did need is faith to believe that Christ lives in me and wanted to teach me all things.


Do you mean to say the Christ Consciousness is always within us...we just have to embrace it?

Is this what you mean?


Christ consciousness?? Oprah, is that you?


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 02:12 PM by Starchild23
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


Christ Consciousness is nowhere near as big a laughingstock as believing that a man who has been dead for two thousand years will fall from the sky and reverse everything gone wrong in one day.

edit on CSundaypm525212f12America/Chicago06 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 02:51 PM by autowrench
reply to post by Starchild23

I starred you, Starchild, that was very well said, couldn't have said it better myself. We, Humanity, are the Key, the Key to:
EVERYTHING.
The US Army says, "Be All That You Can Be!" and that is a motto for us all to take to heart. The various Christ Like Figures throughout History were there to set an example, not to become Gods. And they did set good examples, and taught good messages, but look at what human beings with control issues did to that simple teaching. They spun it into a story of falsehoods and innuendo, and taught the People the bloodletting, and the cannibalism based ritual of communion. The demeaned Womanhood, and blamed her for all Sins, even the original one, and told them all to keep quiet, and obey their husbands. Most of the Free Spirited, Wise Women of the day were murdered in a bloody frenzy of Church inspired Witch Burning.

Time to get off your knees, Humanity, and be all that we can be.


reply posted on 6-5-2012 @ 03:08 PM by Starchild23
reply to post by autowrench


I've enjoyed a great deal of your posts too, Auto. But I'd like to make something clear: the Church, whether intentionally or inadvertently, has kept us safe all of these years. In an age where science could not be understood, but where savagery could easily become standard practice, the Church kept uneducated people from destroying themselves by establishing government that made sure the strict path was kept in every way. It was an absolute safeguard - everyone follow this road, and no harm will ever come to you.

It was a survival technique.

But here's the catch: becoming addicted to that survival technique. You use a campfire as long as you are in the woods, but in a house, you graduate to a stove. It's like that. You don't build a fire in the middle of your living room, and you don't cook your beans over a propane tank while squatting in your bedroom. There's no point to it. And since we no longer require the survivalist mindset, we can let go everything but the riddles of the Bible.

And this is the time when we need to set aside the chemistry set and realize that spirit actually has a lot to reveal regarding science. Not the spirit of god or whatever...that's for people who need a higher power to feel safe in life. That's for those who are too weak to stand up and say, "I am the god in my life. I am the one who rules my fate. If something happens to me, it's up to me to react and control my course." It's for those who fear the temptations and flaws that can cripple all of us, and those who fear what lies beyond the doors of death. There's no reason to fear death if you have lead a satisfying life. In fact, people who lead a wonderful life look forward to death as the next great adventure. So see, we don't really need a god...but the fact is, god is within us. Around us. GOD IS US. We come from the flesh of that apple tree, and we are the apples which have sprung from it. We will continue to feed that tree, and it will give us strength...but not by constantly adhering to the old ways. Those ways protected the uneducated. We are not uneducated. It's time to move on to system that will help US grow, not them. That's not the medicine we take. We need a new prescription.

The Church had a purpose. And it still serves that purpose, because in our lack of realization that we no longer need to "survive" per se, we have continued to fight over everything. And that's why the Church is still in business. Not because of the Devil (which is a metaphor for the flaws within us), but because of ourselves, and our lack of AWARENESS. It's time to wake up. When we wake up, the Church will no longer be needed.

Everything that is happening today, is happening because, on a global level, the majority of Homo Sapiens is still asleep. It's time to wake up, people. Wake up, or you will never truly spread your wings. Awaken, and rise to your purpose. Not the purpose of serving God, or surviving...

The purpose of growing. Becoming better physically AND spiritually. Wake up, and grow.
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