Republican Primary Bound Delegate Count

Outkast, what would Gary Johnson Say??

Originally posted by hoochymama
Outkast, what would Gary Johnson Say??

I have no idea what you are talking about....care to elaborate?

I got proof Outkast. From Wikipedia of all places. Link below for proof. At the 2008 Republican national convention, 14 delegates abstained from voting for John McCain in the first and only round of voting.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here's some more proof.

"As set out in the Rules of the Republican Party, delegates have the ability to vote according to the delegates’ preference, even if that is contrary to the outcome of each state’s primary. According to one source, the legal counsel for the Republican National Convention in 2008 stated: “[The] RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose.” Thus, if a delegate were to challenge his or her ability to vote as a free agent, he or she would have grounds under Rule 38."

www.fairvote.org...-dJNm3MTD

How about that one, Outkast. Two proofs in one post! Go Ron Paul. Viva la revolution!

reply to post by hab22


They would not have grounds under Rule 38. Rule 38 pertains to the unit rule. The unit rule is a practice where a state will cast all of their votes in favor of the candidate with the majority of votes from that state's delegates. If there is a delegate who is bound to another candidate they would be forced to vote for the majority. This is what is Rule 38 prevents.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Now you are simply making excuses. Only one thing matters in that post - the fact that delegates ABSTAINED FROM VOTING.

Stop denying and claiming ignorance to the face. You and Outkast has been proven wrong and have been unable to show any evidence on the contrary. Its game over.

reply to post by gwydionblack


No that's what the unit rule is, you can look it up easily. You can also easily check up in the 08 Republican Handbook that it specifies that no state can bind a delegate based on the unit rule. As for delegates abstaining, show proof that these were bound delegates. I wouldn't be surprised if an unbound delegate could abstain, but what we're dealing with in this thread are bound delegates.

On another matter, if people abstain doesn't that simply lower the number of required votes that Romney needs? I'm not 100% positive on this but it's not that a candidate needs 1144 votes to win the nomination. It's that they need 50%+1 of the votes to win. So if people are abstaining their vote isn't being counted and as such there are fewer votes.

Here is an excellent site with the beakdown by State's binding rules:

sites.google.com...

Who's beating the dead horse, now.
The NRC rules trump the state rules!!!!!!!!!!!
THE END .

Jeebus!
Thanks Out cast for answering my question of the GOP numbers....(this is still a bone of contention i wouldnt want to see anyone pick over.)....I thought it was black and white somewhere....but maybe not hey?
You are doing admirably explaining to the uninitiated whats really going on....
I had thought there was a Ron Paul groundswell of somewhat greater proportions.....
There may be hope in the very fact that Dr Paul has been so obviously discriminated against and conspired against in so many different primaries......The whole dishonest mess is getting its dirty laundry hung out for the nation to see.....The MSM is hard put to keep the lid on such obvious chicanery ..........
It is becomming far more aparent to the people just how corrupt the system has become, and it may well yield a good old fashioned house cleaning in the near future.
Would the write in ballot of a majority of americans be accepted for election of a president??
Would they even be recorded electronically?
Its all sooo bizare!

Originally posted by hab22
I got proof Outkast. From Wikipedia of all places. Link below for proof. At the 2008 Republican national convention, 14 delegates abstained from voting for John McCain in the first and only round of voting.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here's some more proof.

"As set out in the Rules of the Republican Party, delegates have the ability to vote according to the delegates’ preference, even if that is contrary to the outcome of each state’s primary. According to one source, the legal counsel for the Republican National Convention in 2008 stated: “[The] RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose.” Thus, if a delegate were to challenge his or her ability to vote as a free agent, he or she would have grounds under Rule 38."

www.fairvote.org...-dJNm3MTD

How about that one, Outkast. Two proofs in one post! Go Ron Paul. Viva la revolution!

Your wikipedia source that shows 14 delegates abstaining....they don't say if those were bound delegates or not. Unbound delegates can abstain all they like...but bound delegates really don't even have the chance to abstain because the chairperson will just count them. They can say "I abstain" and the chairperson will say, "Well you are a bound delegate so you get counted anyway".


The Rule 38 thing has been all over the Ron Paul websites...and that is fine...the RNC can say they don't enforce it all they want...but a private orginzations rules do not trump State law. Like I gave an example of Georgia, their binding is two-fold...the State GOP rules and the State Laws and Codes.

It is ridiculous Ron Paul supporters are claiming that the RNC trumps State Law. I can't create an organization and in my rules say "we don't recognize the state laws that prohibit people from using illegal drugs" and then say it is fine for people to use illegal drugs in my establishment.


Like it or not, the majority of delegates are bounded by their State for the first round of voting....there is going to be a lot of crying from Ron Paul supporters when no bound delegates are allowed to "abstain" at the convention....but they will come up with some excuse (most likely fraud) and just cry like they always do.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by hab22

 

They would not have grounds under Rule 38. Rule 38 pertains to the unit rule. The unit rule is a practice where a state will cast all of their votes in favor of the candidate with the majority of votes from that state's delegates. If there is a delegate who is bound to another candidate they would be forced to vote for the majority. This is what is Rule 38 prevents.

That is true as well...and since each state always leaves a few delegates unbound...they bypass the Unit Rule because not all of their delegates are bound to vote on way.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by Xcalibur254

 

Now you are simply making excuses. Only one thing matters in that post - the fact that delegates ABSTAINED FROM VOTING.

Stop denying and claiming ignorance to the face. You and Outkast has been proven wrong and have been unable to show any evidence on the contrary. Its game over.

Yes, now go prove that those delegates that abstained were BOUND DELEGATES. Come on, this is like first grade logic.

It is game over...Ron Paul can't win without winning 60% of the remaining primaries...and we both know he won't get more than 25% at best.

Originally posted by Julie Washington
Here is an excellent site with the beakdown by State's binding rules:

sites.google.com...

Awesome site.

Not that anyone will pay attention to it because the new Ron Paul rally cry is that bound delegates aren't bound at all.


Thanks for that website though...better than having to go track down each state individually.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Who's beating the dead horse, now.
The NRC rules trump the state rules!!!!!!!!!!!
THE END .

It is sad that you think a private orginzation's rules trumpe STATE LAW.

Even if it wasn't state law, it's funny you think that the RNC trumps State RNC rules.

Tell me...these delegates....are they part of the RNC or are they part of the State GOP??? The answer to that question should tell you which rules bind them.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Ok, explain away the fact that Florida change their primary date in 2008 and the RNC took away 50% of Floridas
delegates in the 2008 convention.
The RNC will always trump state rules.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher
In one of your posts on another thread you mentioned the best choice for POTUS would be Gary Johnson, or something to that effect. Or maybe you were talking about his Voting Record.

Originally posted by stirling
Jeebus!
Thanks Out cast for answering my question of the GOP numbers....(this is still a bone of contention i wouldnt want to see anyone pick over.)....I thought it was black and white somewhere....but maybe not hey?
You are doing admirably explaining to the uninitiated whats really going on....
I had thought there was a Ron Paul groundswell of somewhat greater proportions.....
There may be hope in the very fact that Dr Paul has been so obviously discriminated against and conspired against in so many different primaries......The whole dishonest mess is getting its dirty laundry hung out for the nation to see.....The MSM is hard put to keep the lid on such obvious chicanery ..........
It is becomming far more aparent to the people just how corrupt the system has become, and it may well yield a good old fashioned house cleaning in the near future.
Would the write in ballot of a majority of americans be accepted for election of a president??
Would they even be recorded electronically?
Its all sooo bizare!

It is far from black and white, but this count has done the best that I can find to seperate the counts between estimated and those that are actually "bound".

I have yet to see any outright fraud in any of the primaries...lots of confusion and complex rules that people don't comprehend...dirty tricks by every campaign (including the Ron Paul campaign)...but not any outright fraud.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Ok, explain away the fact that Florida change their primary date in 2008 and the RNC took away 50% of Floridas
delegates in the 2008 convention.
The RNC will always trump state rules.

Wow...how do you not understand this.

The RNC tells all the other State GOP organizations, "You can bring x amount of delegates to our convention as long as you do y, if not you can only bring half of x."

That is not trumping state rules or laws...that is setting the rules for THEIR convention.

I can create an organization, create a convention, send out invites to other organizations and tell them they can send x amount of members of their organization to my convention as long as they follow a few rules of mine. But I can't tell them that when your members get to my convention, your organizations rules no longer apply to them and they don't have to follow your rules.


In Rule 38, even though it doesn't apply because no States use "The Unit Rule", the RNC is saying that THEY are removing themselves from the equation...the RNC is saying WE don't bind you. They are leaving it up to the individual States. Rule 38 (even though it only applies to the unit rule) doesn't say that they unbind the delegates...they just say that they, the RNC, don't enforce the binding. But since there are STATE LAWS that enforce the binding...it doesn't matter....the RNC can not overturn State law with a party Rule.



I think it's funny that you think RNC rules can overturn State Laws

Originally posted by hoochymama
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

In one of your posts on another thread you mentioned the best choice for POTUS would be Gary Johnson, or something to that effect. Or maybe you were talking about his Voting Record.

I think you may have confused someone else with me.

I know who Gary Johnson is, but I don't support him for POTUS because I don't agree with him...he is a Libertarian just like Ron Paul.

The states choose/ elect their own state commitee for the party.
The state then sends their commitee members to the National Commitee meetings.
All state commitee members VOTE on the RNC rules.
And the RNC rules are in effect at the convention.
Every state representative agreed to the rules and voted for the rules.
So all states that held their primarys BEFORE April 1, will according to theGOP's own rules will :
1. Not have a winner take all primary but a proportional election.
2 Will lose 50% of their delegates.

So if all the states that held their primarys before April 1 are proportional and lose 50% of their delegates, (that means they will not be allowed onto the convention floor for the first vote .)
That means you hard and soft count are null and void.
Which all comes down to the first round of votes from the convention floor.
Which could mean no candidate will have enough delegates to win the first round.