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Do we really have free will?

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posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


Go online and you will find that the heart beats indepentently.


Both of these websites are saying NO: 1, 2

And NURSES, NEUROLOGIST, people that actually study and work with this stuff is saying NO, the brain sends impulses to the heart for the muscles to contract (heart beat).


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


Find the 'chooser' before deciding if there is freewill or not.


I've already given you two video links explaining the research that says that the brain activity is choosing it and NOT your consciousness in the brain.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

So.. what are you?


It is irrelevant what I think I am. We are having a discussion about free will, whether we have it with our PHYSICAL bodies...




posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


The heart beats before a brain is developed in the womb. And a heart beats when it is removed from a body.

You think you are a physical body. You do not realize that you are the seer and knower of what appears to be a body. The physical is the appearance that is seen.
The mind (thought) is seen.

Consciousness is the seer and knower of all things known.
You think you are a body.
I know i am consciousness.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Watch this video to view existence in a completely fresh and new way:
youtu.be...



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


The heart beats before a brain is developed in the womb.


No, they develop simultaneously.



Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

And a heart beats when it is removed from a body.


Yeah under strict conditionals. Scientists can make many weird things happen.



Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

You think you are a body.
I know i am consciousness.


I never said what I thought I was, did I? In fact I specifically said that it irrelevant to this conversation of whether or not we have free-will with our BODIES.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Oh i read this:
"It is irrelevant what I think I am. We are having a discussion about free will, whether we have it with our PHYSICAL bodies... ".



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


Watch this video to view existence in a completely fresh and new way:
youtu.be...



This is just someone's spiritual beLIEf. And I can't even hear the video. We are trying to use actual EVIDENCE in this philosophical discussion of free-will ability to do what we want with our BODIES.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


Oh i read this:
"It is irrelevant what I think I am. We are having a discussion about free will, whether we have it with our PHYSICAL bodies... ".



Ok... I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that you don't understand or something?
edit on 28-4-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


So you have assumed it is a lie, because you cannot hear it so do not know the truth about the video. Before finding actual evidence about freewill it must be determined 'who' or 'what' believes it has a choice.

You are talking about physical bodies and the choice you have as one (a physical body).
I say if you have misidentified yourself as a thing there will be the belief that 'you' have choice.
edit on 28-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


So you assume it is a lie. Because you cannot hear it so do not know the truth about the video. Before finding actual evidence about freewill it must be determined 'who' or 'what' believes it has a choice.

You are talking about physical bodies and the choice you have as one (a physical body).
I say you have misidentified yourself as a thing to believe that you have choice.


I didn't "assume" anything. All I said was that it is a belief. Remember belief has the word "lie" in it. We should use that to remind ourselves that not all beliefs are true and as a belief, it is not actual FACT.

The whole point of asking whether or not we have free-will is to actually PROVE our position with EVIDENCE.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

You are talking about physical bodies and the choice you have as one (a physical body).
I say you have misidentified yourself as a thing to believe that you have choice.


I never said that we have any choice. Did you even watch any of the videos I linked which is actual commentary with research? We do NOT have a choice. The brain activity does it for us BEFORE the consciousness.

I never identified myself as anything.

I said this:

We are talking about whether our PHYSICAL BODY's FREE WILL; whether it has the free will to take the action that it wants... So of course for PHYSICAL FREE-WILL we must REFER to PHYSICAL BODY.

I never said that I was ANYTHING so you are just judging and saying things that I actually NEVER said.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


If you did not watch and hear the video i posted then you did not give it a chance and you do not know what you are rejecting. You have believed that you know what the video is saying, it is you who has beLIEf. You judged it as a lie before watching it.
The video is not speaking about a belief, it strips belief away. It questions what you have been programmed to believe.

That video questions all beliefs. It can be quite terrifiying to have beLIEfs destroyed for some. Without belief what are you?
edit on 28-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


If you did not watch and hear the video i posted then you did not give it a chance and you do not know what you are rejecting.


True. It's not my fault that I can't hear it, though.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

You have believed that you know what the video is saying, it is you who has beLIEf. You judged it as a lie before watching it.


"Satsang" is a BELIEF and the video says that is what he is talking about... a BELIEF. I did not judge it as true or false, I simply said that we should be careful when dealing with beliefs because they could be LIES.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

That video questions all beliefs. It can be quite terrifiying to have beLIEfs destroyed for some. Without belief what are you?


I like destroying my "incorrect" beliefs which is why I am always doing research. And again, it doesn't matter who I am. That is irrelevant to the topic of whether Physical Bodies with Brain have free-will to do as please.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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Yes, of course we have Freewill...but nothing has ever said that there are no consequences for the choices we make. Even at the fundamental rules of physics, for every action (choice) there is a reaction (consequence/reward).

I can choose to stick my hand into fire....the consequence is ...I will be burned and suffer pain. If I take action and go to work (a choice) then I will get paid (reward). If I choose NOT to go to work, then the reaction will be no money and then a whole chain of possible negative consequences opens up...but I still have the power to choose which path I will take.

I am stunned no one has posted this...here is Rush - Freewill (with Lyrics) read and comprehend...some clever Canadian wisdom in these words.




posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by Damrod
 


Another one who believes "just because" instead of actually looking at research done by NEUROLOGISTS which says there is no free-will but determinism.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


IT's been proved that No we do not have free will


[url=http://www.prlog.org/10066425-experiment-rules-out-human-free-will.html]http://www.prlog.org/10066425-experiment-rules-out-human-free-will.html[/ url]

Here is a good 5 minute video about it...



BTW me knowing this has actually really made me depressed. Makes me think what the point is in all this "living" crap.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


'Satsang' is not a belief. The word 'satsang' points to the 'search for the ultimate truth'. To look to find what is true. A true satsang destroys all beliefs.
If you believe yourself to be what you are not everything that is percieved is based on a lie.

It is important to know what you are, or what is thought to be choosing before the matter of choice can be investigated.

edit on 28-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by DaRAGE
IT's been proved that No we do not have free will

BTW me knowing this has actually really made me depressed. Makes me think what the point is in all this "living" crap.


Thank you for actually being honest and coming to grips with TRUTH/REALITY unlike so many others...

I'm not sure why it would make you depressed that there is no free-will though. You still have free-will of THOUGHT (Consciousness).

Remember the video says that the brain activity predetermines the action BEFORE the actual consciousness; meaning that the choice is already made but we can think about it all we want whether we want to see it in a negative way or positive way is all up to us.

And the "point" is to do nothing but exist, everything else will take care of itself.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


"Remember the video says that the brain activity predetermines the action BEFORE the actual consciousness; meaning that the choice is already made but we can think about it all we want whether we want to see it in a negative way or positive way is all up to us."(quote)

Are you making the choice to 'think' about it positively or negatively? Who could make that choice? The 'thinker'? Are you saying 'the thinker' has the choice, has the freewill to think positive or negatively?


Thoughts happen, just like everything does.


edit on 28-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
If you believe yourself to be what you are not everything that is percieved is based on a lie.


Yes, BASED on a lie, that doesn't mean it actually IS one.

It doesn't matter what I believe myself to be, I'll still understand that "1+1=2". So just because something may be "based" on a lie, it doesn't mean the actual information IS a lie.

By the way, all you are doing is repeating yourself...



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Are you making the choice to 'think' about it positively or negatively?


Yes, I choose to make the choice to see it in a positive way. When there is something I don't like and I can't do anything about it, I refocus myself on the positiveness of it so that I can feel better. So yes, I am choosing my thoughts and they are not "just happening"...



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Damrod
 


Another one who believes "just because" instead of actually looking at research done by NEUROLOGISTS which says there is no free-will but determinism.


Oh...well...who am I to argue with scientist...especially the ones who have never taken the time to interview and study "every single human being's thoughts and motivations"....

It is called "causality"...cause and effect. You CAN choose to do whatever you want to do...but...then you have to live with the consequences of those choices....this is human freewill....like it or not.

There is no grand judge out there overseeing every single thought and action of individuals...that is a gigantic myth for those that cannot grasp critical thinking and decision making....

I am not in an argumentative mood....suffice to say...I can choose to do whatever I want to do...and be completely prepared to deal with the ramifications of those choices....

I disagree with determinism...you are basically saying that I am nothing but a culmination of prior events and the choices I make are completely based on that......and I disagree wholeheartedly because I have a brain capable of critical thinking and analysis....I can choose...at any point...to "trail blaze" a new path of my desire...."damn the torpedoes...full steam ahead"....



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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The one that feels the need to label eveything as positive to make oneself 'feel better' must be sick.
First find out who feels good and who feels bad?




edit on 28-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



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