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Do we really have free will?

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posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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For one thing, we have free will with limitations. We are limited in what we can do as humans, so really, at the most, we have only human free will.

My life is the result of circumstances completely out of my control. Yet here I am in this body. I came into this body with DNA that determined the shape of my form and the shape that it would grow in to. My body could have grown strong or it could have been weak. Depending on which way it went would have a strong effect on the circumstances I would place myself in. My brain could have been strong or it could have been weak. This would also strongly bias me towards certain kinds of experiences. I could have had oppressive parents or I could have had encouraging parents. This would strongly effect my emotional behavior. You start combining all of these factors and many others that are outside of your control and consider how they have influenced your decisions in life, and free will becomes questionable.

The point is this:
I know that I can choose right now to lift my left index finger or not. My question, though, is is that decision and that idea to do that the product of a variety of other circumstances that are out of my control rendering only the illusion of free will?


So here's my thought. I would probably like to not have free will more than I would like to have it. I like the idea of a supreme intelligence coordinating the movements of my life and the movements of the lives of others around me. When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me. I just can't figure out if this dance is due to not having free will or if it is due to me delusionally believing I don't have free will. Either way, the dance I see is pretty trippy.




edit on 26-4-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-4-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb


So here's my thought. I would probably like to not have free will more than I would like to have it. I like the idea of a supreme intelligence coordinating the movements of my life and the movements of the lives of others around me. When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me. I just can't figure out if this dance is due to not having free will or if it is due to me delusionally believing I don't have free will. Either way, the dance I see is pretty trippy.





Where's the meaning in that?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by smithjustinb


So here's my thought. I would probably like to not have free will more than I would like to have it. I like the idea of a supreme intelligence coordinating the movements of my life and the movements of the lives of others around me. When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me. I just can't figure out if this dance is due to not having free will or if it is due to me delusionally believing I don't have free will. Either way, the dance I see is pretty trippy.


Where's the meaning in that?


in what?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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I believe that we have free will. I also believe that the majority of people are afraid to exercise their free will. We all have been guilty of this before at some point in our lives. You can do anything you want to really. Some things may be illegal or seem impossible to acomplish but we all have the free will to try. Free will does not mean you can do whatever with no consequences, it just means that you can do it. I believe it is up to our own intuition to tell us when and when not to exercise our free will. That's just my take on this anyways.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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We have as much free will as our masters let us have. Unfortunately they are getting fewer and fewer with each passing day. Most people believe that our votes actually count, if so then why all the voter fraud and things that the majority don't want?

People are fools, some of us know that and the elite know that. We are just human resources to be utilized.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 



When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me.

If you didn't have free will then how would you have the ability to see the dance. If a supreme being was directing your every move the only reason you think you see something is because you were directed to think that.
edit on 26-4-2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Why don't you repeat this idea to a school gunner before he loads his shotguns and jumps on the school at 8:00AM>?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


In not having free will.

You say you would rather not have free will. But that is a preference is it not? It is your free will to prefer not having it over having it. Without free will, you don't have a say in whether you prefer not having it. You still want free will.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Dear smithjustinb,

Do we have free will? No, we are flesh robots and are not responsible for our actions. You are responsible for your choices, some are mistakes and some are intentional regardless of our justifications. What is the problem with that? Which do you choose to be true? Which should we spend our lives trying to prove and why? If you could pick the truth, what truth would you pick, that you are a meat computer or that you have free will and defined yourself and made mistakes along the way because you are a work in progress? You cannot prove either choice wrong, you can only choose who you are. Peace.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by smithjustinb


So here's my thought. I would probably like to not have free will more than I would like to have it. I like the idea of a supreme intelligence coordinating the movements of my life and the movements of the lives of others around me. When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me. I just can't figure out if this dance is due to not having free will or if it is due to me delusionally believing I don't have free will. Either way, the dance I see is pretty trippy.


Where's the meaning in that?


in what?


In not being responsible for your actions.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by usmc0311
I believe that we have free will. I also believe that the majority of people are afraid to exercise their free will. We all have been guilty of this before at some point in our lives. You can do anything you want to really. Some things may be illegal or seem impossible to acomplish but we all have the free will to try. Free will does not mean you can do whatever with no consequences, it just means that you can do it. I believe it is up to our own intuition to tell us when and when not to exercise our free will. That's just my take on this anyways.


I know that I can choose right now to lift my left index finger or not. My question, though, is is that decision and that idea to do that the product of a variety of other circumstances that are out of my control rendering only the illusion of free will.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by smithjustinb


So here's my thought. I would probably like to not have free will more than I would like to have it. I like the idea of a supreme intelligence coordinating the movements of my life and the movements of the lives of others around me. When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me. I just can't figure out if this dance is due to not having free will or if it is due to me delusionally believing I don't have free will. Either way, the dance I see is pretty trippy.


Where's the meaning in that?


in what?


In not being responsible for your actions.


Once realized, it means we don't have to judge the actions of others. We can live and let live. It makes things easier. It also makes us free to not worry about whether we did right or wrong. So we could be guilt and worry free. We'd be living in the freedom of the moment even if the future is written in stone.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Parksie
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Why don't you repeat this idea to a school gunner before he loads his shotguns and jumps on the school at 8:00AM>?



Why would a gunner want to here about my philosophical ideas? I'm sure if he's about to kill some kids, the last thing he wants to talk about is free will philosophy.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by smithjustinb


So here's my thought. I would probably like to not have free will more than I would like to have it. I like the idea of a supreme intelligence coordinating the movements of my life and the movements of the lives of others around me. When I look at it like that, I start to see a certain kind of harmonic dance all around me. I just can't figure out if this dance is due to not having free will or if it is due to me delusionally believing I don't have free will. Either way, the dance I see is pretty trippy.


Where's the meaning in that?


in what?


In not being responsible for your actions.


Once realized, it means we don't have to judge the actions of others. We can live and let live. It makes things easier. It also makes us free to not worry about whether we did right or wrong. So we could be guilt and worry free. We'd be living in the freedom of the moment even if the future is written in stone.


It doesn't mean we are no longer capable of acknowledging our mistakes, its just that once the mistake occurs, it is much easier to forgive ourselves for it.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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This thread is awesome in that it takes away the smoke screens and gets to the bottm line question. Am I doing whatt I'm doing because I want to or is it the coincidence of something else controlling my life. I sort of believe in both. On our level we are controling what we do. But I think the bigger picture is being controlled by circumstances as you put it and I see it as coincidence. A star explodes 5 light years away It doesn't really effect us here until that gamma radiation extincts life on earth. Coincidentally the sametime technology for interstellar travel is invented.

I want to take this a step further imagine it'a star 1,000 light years away. It's been dead along time. Ironically we just sent an exploration team out to study a life bearing planet.
edit on 27-4-2012 by Manunnaki because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb


Once realized, it means we don't have to judge the actions of others. We can live and let live. It makes things easier. It also makes us free to not worry about whether we did right or wrong. So we could be guilt and worry free. We'd be living in the freedom of the moment even if the future is written in stone.


Hmmm...

worry and guilt are there for a reason...you don't adjust your perception to get away with doing things that would normally make you feel guilty or regret. People can live in that freedom right now, and also be responsible for their intentions and actions. And if you say God has control, then live and let live is verbatim. Why are you assuming bad things would not still be considered bad?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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The entire thread is a repeat of every other Free will vs Determinism thread asking same question



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Once realized, it means we don't have to judge the actions of others. We can live and let live. It makes things easier. It also makes us free to not worry about whether we did right or wrong. So we could be guilt and worry free. We'd be living in the freedom of the moment even if the future is written in stone.


Hmmm...

worry and guilt are there for a reason...you don't adjust your perception to get away with doing things that would normally make you feel guilty or regret. People can live in that freedom right now, and also be responsible for their intentions and actions. And if you say God has control, then live and let live is verbatim. Why are you assuming bad things would not still be considered bad?


This goes into the ages old debate of moral relativism which would have to be discussed in a thread of its own. I didn't come here to talk about that, I came to talk about whether or not we have free will. But since you asked, good and bad are relative so it would be okay not to consider anything bad and all things good.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
The entire thread is a repeat of every other Free will vs Determinism thread asking same question


Yeah but I believe I have a unique understanding of the benefits of determinism, and that's part of what I came here to get into.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


The benefits of determinism are for those that want to avoid responsibility. We are all slightly determined because of the body's requirements and aging. That isn't what is really being argued though. This is about some realization that changes your perception about what caused actions. If they are not your own, then actions you do not agree with do not feel bad because they are not really yours. You try to prove determinism in retrospect, but rely on the choice of the present, which is being caused to try and prove that it is causing itself to try and prove it is...?..?..ok.

Free will appears as an illusion because of the limits of choice from the lack of creativity and information.



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