Chimps worship a supreme being???

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by Ericthenewbie

 

I am not against diversity. The point I am making is that if there is no deeper significance, than anything we attribute to as deep meaning, purpose etc are not that at all but mere delusions. Do you agree with that? It's a logical deduction of the "brain are just chemicals" view

I can agree with that, as long as it is understood that society gives us our morals and deep meanings, and our sense of right and wrong. We see this in every social group in the animal kingdom. It is wrong for a lion or wolf of lesser ranking to eat first from a fresh kill, and they will be punished for trying. In herds of antelope or elephants each adult individual agrees to surround and protect the offspring of that herd. Their societies deem children to be valuable. So, it is apparent that we get our morals from nature.

Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun

 

exactly, you either believe that, for example, the love you have for a child, mother, father etc is just a result of chemical reactions in the brain, with no deeper significance, or you feel that it is something beyond the physical- either way it is a choice, I choose the latter

My only concern is that when people 'choose' certain ideals, they usually refuse to accept the implausibility of it. They choose to believe simply because they want to pretend to believe, and for no other reason.

If the love we have for our mother and father is something beyond physical familiarity, then if a child is given up for adoption at birth (and is never told they were adopted) and is raised by loving people in another country, then this child should still know and love his original parents. Can't happen.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The video shows normal group behaviour. Wolves do the same. The beta animals sometimes roll on their back in front of the alpha to show their submission. It has NOTHING to do with worshipping some supreme being

Right. Even though the idea of a supreme being is beyond reasonable, this doesn't mean that believers are unreasonable in all aspects of their thinking. So, how in the world did the maker of that clip come to the conclusions he made? If I were to jump to any conclusion it would be that religious behaviors (kneeling before a priest or kissing the ring of the pope) came from us mimicking those chimps.

reply to post by jiggerj


I get what you do. Their action has nothing to do with belief in god or any supreme being from what I see. Chimps may believe in a god but this video shows absolutely no evidence of it. It does show acceptance for an Alpha male as leader though. I know people who act like that Leader Chimp

Just to re emphasize the facts.

en.wikipedia.org...

The bonobo is popularly known for its high levels of sexual behavior. Sex functions in conflict appeasement, affection, social status, excitement, and stress reduction. It occurs in virtually all partner combinations and in a variety of positions. This is a factor in the lower levels of aggression seen in the bonobo when compared to the common chimpanzee and other apes. Bonobos are perceived to be matriarchal: females tend to collectively dominate males by forming alliances and use sexuality to control males. A male's rank in the social hierarchy is often determined by his mother's rank.

Along with the common chimpanzee, the bonobo is the closest extant relative to humans. Because the two species are not proficient swimmers, it is possible that the formation of the Congo River 1.5–2 million years ago led to the speciation of the bonobo. They live south of the river, and thereby were separated from the ancestors of the common chimpanzee, which live north of the river. There is no concrete data on population numbers, but the estimate is between 29,500 and 50,000 individuals. The species is listed as Endangered on the IUCN Red List and is threatened by habitat destruction and human population growth and movement, though commercial poaching is the most prominent threat. It typically lives 40 years in captivity, though its lifespan in the wild is unknown.......


Most studies indicate that females have a higher social status in bonobo society. Aggressive encounters between males and females are rare, and males are tolerant of infants and juveniles. A male's status is derived from the status of his mother.[27] The mother-son bond often stays strong and continues throughout life. While social hierarchies do exist, rank plays a less prominent role than in other primate societies.

The limited research on bonobos in the wild was taken to indicate that these matriarchal behaviors may be exaggerated by captivity, as well as by food provisioning by researchers in the field.[26] This view has recently been challenged, however, by Duke University's Vanessa Woods;[28] Woods noted in a radio interview[29] that she had observed bonobos in a spacious forested sanctuary in the DRC exhibiting the same sort of hypersexuality under these more naturalistic conditions; and, while she acknowledges a hierarchy among males, including an alpha male, these males are less dominant than the dominant female.

Its very interesting.

reply to post by Unity_99


Bonobos are awesome. If we solved our conflicts like they do, the world would be a happier place



They literally don't give a f***!

Karl Pillkington...... That is all I'm gonna say.

The resemblance to scenes from The Godfather are uncanny!

Originally posted by grill
The resemblance to scenes from The Godfather are uncanny!

Because that is what the behavior is like. If they don't kiss his butt then he will kick theirs. Also he's in charge of all the females.

reply to post by jiggerj


A lot of animals also eat their young(and actually, if we are truly like animals, then we wouldn't change this behavior. After all, youngs can't argue, so why should we care about them)? In fact, where did the taboo from not cooking and eating dead people come from?

This video doesn't really prove anything. You could just keep asking random stuff like, why do we wear clothes? Not only that, why do women cover their breasts and men don't?

What this video shows is that evolution is probably a lot more intelligent than we thought, but then you have to ask, why didn't our cells learn to replicate themselves exactly, reproduce organs, instead of creating new babies(reincarnation purposes), and so on. Also, incest reduces genetic variations and increases mortality rates, which means that there's really no good reason that it should require two organisms to reproduce(unless it somehow knows that other families are around.)

And then you have to ask, why is beauty so specific, as none of the traits can be explained from an evolution standpoint. For example, why are big eyes beautiful? Don't we all have the same vision? Why are small noses beautiful? Big noses allow you to breath more air, so shouldn't they be favored? Why are thin eyebrows more beautiful than no eyebrows or thick eyebrows? Thick eyebrows protect you from sweat the most, so why not favor that? The more I study it, it made me realize that someone simply just drew a picture of a girl, and decided arbitrarily that these traits are beautiful.

As you can see, if you want to "nitpick," then there are a lot of ways to nitpick.

To put it simply, this video says nothing whether there's a designer or not.
What you can say is that if there's a designer, then he's probably a big jerk, although, it's possible that all of these stages of evolution are really just karma for evil beings. You ask, what kind of people deserve this kind of punishment. Well, it's probably for what they did in the 7th and 8th dimensions, in other words, for very high level gods(and in theory, there should be as many of them as there are people in this dimension) who probably run very evil simulations, or kill civilizations in a blink, in which case, reincarnations throughout the life of this planet still probably isn't enough.

They believe in one because there is one.

Thats my final answer.

Originally posted by jiggerj
I just watched a clip of chimps in the wild kneeling and kissing the hand of the alpha male. The idea behind the clip was to prove that there is a supreme being. I didn't get that at all. If anything it proves that the idea of worship was invented when we were dumb animals in fear of the earthly leader of our group. What do you get out of it?

www.youtube.com...

edit on 4/22/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/22/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

What you see here is not a religious experience, nor is it spiritual in any way. You do see this kind of behavior in tyrants, dictators, and such. It is a physical pack order in which the dominant male intends to control and lead by intimidation and force. The gesture of offering the hand to kiss is not the service of the "supreme being" but an act of surrender to brutal force. You see this when Saddam Hussein would line up his enemies and kill some of them with a pistol shot to the head. The others then bowed down in submission. It is the common fear and brutality routine. Dogs for instance do the same where the dominant male attacks the lesser males, and then the weaker dogs will kiss the dominant male on the mouth and lie down belly up to reveal it's vulnerable parts.
Now the chimp getting angry at the storm is nothing more than showing the other chimps that he is fearless to any threat, that is all. It's like Saddam Hussein flashing his middle finger at the on coming US troops entering Baghdad.

Now there is actually a "Supreme Being" who is God, creator of all you see in the physical universe. Chimps do not know this nor do they ponder this. Humans do because God gave them the ability of perception that goes beyond the physical. Rejection of this means you wish to be like the animals and not know there is a God. Heaven is another dimension and that is where God has His place of authority. And God is not to be confused with religion, which is the invention of men, but God is a person and as such is to be recognized and given recognition as Lord and Creator.

Not everyone can know God. Some truly are just like the animals and cannot conceive even the idea of anything greater than themselves or beyond their own physical existence. It is possible they will never know God until they die where they will finally see Him before the judgement. But still others know and believe what is the truth, that God is, and that we are the created and owe Him our lives.

Removed
post

I think people is lazy.they want to feel fears and relay those in somebody else instead of do something about it.

From the presentation you do get a feel that they the Chimp Creator Creations recognize that there is a dominant chimp present and they seem to show respect to the ALPHA male. This respect 1 can relate to the subconscious influences related to genetic progression of a species. The group of chimps sees the alpha male as their genetic future designer of their offspring as well as a PROTECTOR of their offspring and also their bloodline. The chimps show they see this or recognize this by some of their (seemingly respectful) activities presented.

Subconscious influences are like unseen forces used to guide the species of interest into surviving amongst others like the species of interest or outside the species. These subconscious influences genetically embedded allow for a species to grow and not randomly spawn offspring that may be from non alpha males or weaker males who yes may spawn but may not know how to protect their herd nor guide their herd when seeking food and shelter and protection from harm not to mention intelligence shared from the alpha down the genetic line..

To conclude it is evident the local chimps of this alpha chimps herd somehow know or recognize the importance of the alpha member, again from subconscious genetic embedded survival influence or just from seeing him as their offspring maker-herd protector-teacher of genetic strength and with that 1 can understand how some relate their evaluations of these activities seen in the OP video to the chimps worshipping the alpha male as the supreme/powerful/teacher LEADER/GUIDE.

[color=cyan] throw an ANCIENT ALIEN twist in the mix of ETs/ALIENS coming to EA*RTH and EVALUATING THE ORIGINAL CREATOR CREATIONS PRESENT. Its not hard to imagine them seeing the more advanced APES here and recognizing how the ADVANCED APES interact and recognize hierarchy and the Ancient Aliens after evaluating the more intelligent original Creator Creations APES MODIFYING THOSE APES INTO THE ANCIENTS IMAGES OF THEMSELVES MAKING HUE-MANS

NAMASTE*******

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by Xeven

 

so are you a nihilist?

You may as well believe in Santa Clause based on the evidence provided in the religious text people follow.

why do you have to bring santa into this, did you get a lump of coal last year

It's funny how some people take a simple thing like chimps showing respect to their alpha male as a sign of the need to worship a divine being...

The Alpha is like Don Corleone... and everyone is showing his loyalty and respect when they kiss his hand or feet.

It's quite simple yet some take it to mean something grand. Sad.

I wouldn't say that displaying certain gestures of respect to the alpha male constitutes worship; they're simply using common sense.

"This ape right here, he's a big, scary SOB and I know I can't take him. Hmmm, I better be real nice to him so he doesn't roll me like an empty kerosene can."

See what I mean? Lot's people - go wander the halls of your old high school and you'll see - act like they respect and like people who are bigger than them and known for violence, but you would never call that worship. I mean, the Godfather liked to have his hand kissed as well, but I've never heard anyone jumping up and saying the Italians could be high-thinking creatures :p

Totally joking, by the way. Italians overall are an admirable and culturally rich people.... (goomba voice) so for-gid about it

Monkey Demos

reply to post by jiggerj

Did you actually use this in an effort to grind an axe against believers in a supreme being?!