Chimps worship a supreme being???

reply to post by jiggerj


In watching that video I get a similar perspective as yourself. Dominance and submissiveness are not derived from religion or "supreme" being but rather on an individual or animal that shows qualities that the others lack and as a result is able to put themselves atop the hierarchy of that group. I don't think many people realize how close we are in make up to other animals especially chimps and that we share a variety of traits and qualities some believe are only unique to humans.

Here's a video showing the work of Frans de Waal investigating the moral behavior in animals (below) he is able to demonstrate empathy, cooperation, fairness and reciprocity -- caring about the well-being of others seems like a very human trait. He shares some surprising videos of behavioral tests, on primates and other mammals, that show how many of these moral traits all of us share.



To take it one step further, let's look at the research of a neuroscientist named Dr. Micheal Persinger and his "God Helmet".

The term "God Helmet" refers to a controversial experimental apparatus in neurotheology. The apparatus, placed on the head of an experimental subject, stimulates the brain with magnetic fields. Persinger reports that at least 80 percent of his participants experience a presence beside them in the room, which they variously say feels like God or someone they knew who had died.
Persinger uses a modified snowmobile helmet or a head-circlet device nicknamed the Octopus that contain solenoids which create a weak but complex magnetic field over the brain's right-hemisphere parietal and temporal lobes.



Here's my thinking; If our society is aware of mental illness and the variety of chemical reactions that occur in the brain and accepts that imbalances in certain chemicals create a variety of reactions be it mania, depression, hallucinations etc.. Also If we can "recreate" the feeling of God through a device..how can we say without a doubt that a belief in a "supreme" being isn't derived from a similar chemical reaction/manipulation within our brain??

Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Here's my thinking; If our society is aware of mental illness and the variety of chemical reactions that occur in the brain and accept that imbalances in certain chemicals create a variety of reaction be it mania, depression, hallucinations etc. How can we say without a doubt that a belief in a "supreme" being isn't derived from a similar chemical reaction within our brain??

You can't really say it's not just chemical reactions in the brain. However, I would contend that if all of our experiences and knowledge in general are mere chemical reactions in the brain, then so are things like meaning, purpose, truth, emotions, etc.

That means that a nihilistic reality is true and all that we adhere in our lives as important, valuable, etc are mere illusions of the mind, basically there for no other reason but to entertain ourselves while we live. If that's the case, than any assertion of morality, be it in humans or animals becomes part of that construct of chemical reactions in the brain, and therefore, nothing more than part of the entire delusion of humanity.

But no one can live with a lack of morality in that sense can they?

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun


Who's to say all of our experiences and knowledge in general aren't mere chemical reactions in the brain, including things like meaning, purpose, truth, emotions, etc.

Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun

 

Who's to say all of our experiences and knowledge in general aren't mere chemical reactions in the brain, including things like meaning, purpose, truth, emotions, etc.

that's my point. if it's true, then all of it are mere delusions of the mind, chemical reactions. meaning and everything else are also just chemical reactions. so moral decisions that may be opposed to yours should not make anyone angry or upset because they're just different construct of chemical reactions.

But who actually is able to live consistently with this view?

pedofile priests seem to do OK with that line of reasoning
I wonder if in the OP the subbie chimps were calling the alpha male Phather in chimpese

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun



exactly, you either believe that, for example, the love you have for a child, mother, father etc is just a result of chemical reactions in the brain, with no deeper significance, or you feel that it is something beyond the physical- either way it is a choice, I choose the latter

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun


I didn't interpret your first response as making the same point I countered with but I'll play along..

Can we agree first that every action has a reaction?

Can we also agree that although humans generally have the same make up but that different chemical reactions in their brains can take place?

If you agree with the above then you can see that different "moral decisions" as you stated, can indeed create an opposing/different chemical reaction in others thus generating a different set of views or emotions than the other...which in turn creates diversity amongst everyone.

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


I am not against diversity. The point I am making is that if there is no deeper significance, than anything we attribute to as deep meaning, purpose etc are not that at all but mere delusions. Do you agree with that? It's a logical deduction of the "brain are just chemicals" view

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun


I can't help but think you are doing a bit of flip flopping now from your initial statement (I could be wrong) but again I will continue to play along..

I can't definitively agree nor disagree with your last post stating;

The point I am making is that if there is no deeper significance, than anything we attribute to as deep meaning, purpose etc are not that at all but mere delusions

All I'm saying is the possibility is there...and the information I have presented should be pondered to determine if there is merit in it, that's all.

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by blueorder

 

precisely...

I find it interesting people use the "might as well believe in Santa Clause of pink Unicorns" line. It's almost like an a-theist mantra. Don't they have better arguments?

...of course people have better arguments and they use them all the time. In this case they were just relating the fact that both Santa Clause and the Abrahamic religions were man-made.

Believe what you want, I have no problem if you worship god, allah, krishna,or the invisible pink / purple elephants Josie and Jerome. Some people find peace in their spiritual search, others find peace in a philosophical pursuit, and still yet others find comfort in the truth science provides. It doesn't make one path better than the other. Lose the ego, that's all I'm advocating. Just because you find solace in a particular religion certainly doesn't provide you license to be a pompous jerk (not saying you are a jerk, just generalizing), and the same applies to atheist, agnostics, etc. I'll judge a person based on their actions and advocacies not whatever belief system they choose.

reply to post by jiggerj


The video shows normal group behaviour. Wolves do the same. The beta animals sometimes roll on their back in front of the alpha to show their submission. It has NOTHING to do with worshipping some supreme being

reply to post by MrXYZ


I agree ...all animals have social status and show affection and aggression

still not buying the chimp human connection...fury little blighters

Originally posted by sitchin
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

I agree ...all animals have social status and show affection and aggression

still not buying the chimp human connection...fury little blighters

Well, we do have a common ancestor...sooo....

We humans show very similar behaviour by the way. In many Asian countries they bow, and whoever's further down on the social structure will bow deeper. In the Arab world, the one with the highest status enters a place last, often "pushing" the beta person with a pat on the back. We aren't all that different, especially once you remove spoken words from the equation.

Most of our face to face communication is non-verbal.

Take your stinking paws off me you damn dirty ape!!!

reply to post by blueorder


God is man made as well. If not for ancient writtings of man you would have no foundation to base belief in a god.

This is really interesting. Put this together with the fact that recently scientists have said that dolphins have the same rights as humans - we are starting to realise that our arrogance about the uniqueness of human intelligence may not be so unique.

I expect to see more discoveries like this.

Originally posted by templar knight
This is really interesting. Put this together with the fact that recently scientists have said that dolphins have the same rights as humans - we are starting to realise that our arrogance about the uniqueness of human intelligence may not be so unique.

I expect to see more discoveries like this.

edit on 22-4-2012 by templar knight because: (no reason given)

I starred your post as it is the most Intelligent thing anyone has said on this thread so far!

There will be a religious type along shortly to refute the dolphins as dumb animals ........... lol

Smarter than thee worshipers me thinks..

Curious how humans have yet to evolve out of the habits of their primate cousins. True, the herd animal habits are loyally reflected in the majority of human interaction, but what if one wishes to buck the trend and begin thinking for themselves? The atheist is demonized, the non believer is ostracized, the trend setter is seen as dangerous. What will be seen as the next step in human evolution but the shedding of the godhead taboos? When an individual sees that the god he or she seeks is not found in another person or in some voice from above but from Within, then they will begin to see the truth.

Although there may indeed be a higher power, Chimps do not believe in imaginary characters, nor do they talk to them via "prayer".

What that means is, that there are a LOT of people on this planet who are LESS intelligent than apes and monkeys.

That video made some highly disputable claims. His idea of a supreme being, compared to that of monkeys, has nothing to do with the human belief. Although some may be similar to the chimps, who love god from fear, that is not what many religions, such as buddhism and hindusim, stem from. Not at all.

And to the above poster, there is more to prayer/meditation/thoughts than you may think. The key is resonance, the golden ratio, and as Tesla would have said, the importance of the numbers, "3, 6 and 9"