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The absurdity of class warfare…

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posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Hey everyone...

A very good friend of mine wrote this article a few days ago and I just published it to his blog. I wanted to share it over here with you because I thought it had a lot of great points. The writer of the article is Charles Wiebe, a 32 degree Grand Mason and long time seeker of knowledge. Most of his credentials and associations can be found here.

I share a lot of the same viewpoints as Charlie, but because of his experience and knowledge he can elaborate a lot more on why things are possibly the way they are...giving great factual advice and making it very easy to follow along. Anyways, I do realize I am basically throwing him to the wolves here, but it is what he wants. He would like to be able to spread a bit more knowledge around in the future if it would be welcomed. Please share your thoughts, as I am positive most Americans are feeling the weight of this war on a daily basis.

The middle class used to be the American dream. You realize they are killing the American dream along side its citizens...just in a discreet, indirect way.

But yeah here is the article.

The absurdity of class warfare…



The division of our population over class is a ruse for government control of more resources and has reached campaign pitch.

All the talking heads who are defining for the public what is relevant, poignant and fundamental have gone completely outside the realm of rational thinking. The democrat method that has formed to create more separation between wealth and wannabe is undermining our society. Our country and every other will and has historically matured into a class system in which there will always be a ruling class managing the resources of man and earth.

It exists everywhere on the planet without exception. N. Korea a perfect example of isolated communism (wealth redistribution) and clearly is a painful example of how these methods the democrats are employing prove out in practice. It matters not under what type of government structure one lives the people will naturally establish their own set of leaders and followers, any social circumstance will demonstrate same. Those with more drive, energy, and smarts will always rise to the top. Those with less drive, energy and smarts will float to a level indicative of their input to society. The deceptive arguments employed by the democrats are not confusing nor should it be acquiesced by the Republicans/Independents that class warfare methods are effective. They are not valid theories applicable to a free society as history, without exception has demonstrated. If you decide that those who strive and produce are to be punished by taking away their rewards then you will inevitably destroy the will to achieve. Period end of story.

Democrats have taken the mantle to promote the idea that those who have achieved wealth in our country should be taxed equally. This is false to begin with because their definition of fair is anything but fair. Achievers “are” already taxed equally as they are making their fortunes. Once those fortunes have been achieved they should not be required to pay again and again and again at the same rates as all others who are still on their first time around. Once a diligent, hard driven, productive person has made it to a level of success, they have sacrificed and invested their non-refundable minutes of life and conserved wealth by denying and forgoing themselves and their families in order to reach that success.

Now that those who have sacrificed have earned the ability to spread their own wealth as they desire they are being hunted by the Democrats to relinquish what they have spent their non-refundable minutes to build. Investment income is a point at which you have paid your dues and are able to become part of the infrastructure of opportunity. By taking various levels of risk with wealth in order to achieve concordant levels of return, investment money is the fuel which allows opportunity for others in turn to succeed. How is it that Obama can promote redistribution of our hard earned wealth and the class warfare which punishes success and the American people actually vote him into office?

source




posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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n. korea isn't an example of wealth distribution, it is an example of a military dictatorship.

it distributes wealth, only to the party leaders and military elite, plus it's associates.

it is involved in counterfeiting, arms dealing and drug trafficking.

it is an extremely bad example of class warfare, or a good one depending on your point of view.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Smell The Roses
 


Your friend is IMO wrong, in my country the UK the following has already happened.

1. Poverty is up.

2. Food prices fuel prices, energy prices and everything else is up.

3. Unemployment is up.

4. Pensions for those who work have been cut.

5. Some workers are seeing a pay freeze.

6. Retirement age is has increased (or is going to).

7. Benefit payments for the disabled have been cut.

8. Working families Tax credits have been cut.

9. Rich folk in the UK have only been paying 10% tax some of them NONE at all, we poorer folk have been paying 25 effing %, those who didn`t pay have been hounded and dragged through the courts some are now behind bars, it has now been admited that The Inland Revenue (tax people) have been letting the wealthy off with their tax bills, some of the large corporations pay no tax at all.

10. All the largest corporations are now enjoying a tax break.

11. Government funded social projects some of which were designed to help hard to reach kids into work and disability services also to help the disabled who can work into work have ALL ended.

And many more I could list.

And your friend has the has the **lls to deny a class war!! oh and I see he is *cough a Mason FAIL!

edit on 13-4-2012 by freewestray because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-4-2012 by freewestray because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-4-2012 by freewestray because: To add FAIL

edit on 13-4-2012 by freewestray because: more on the tax situation

edit on 13-4-2012 by freewestray because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Obama is promoting distribution of the wealth from the have nots to the haves. From the citizen to the banker, from the citizen to the corporation. He is clearly the farthest thing away from communism you could ever be.

Bush did the same thing

Romney would do the same thing

Clinton did the same thing

I guess you and your friend are still under the illusion that there is a difference in either party? Oh and North Korea isn't communist either. I thought the same generalized statements until I actually started to educate myself about " the left".

Very few seem to actually know what communism, fascism, socialism, corporatism, and every other political ism is.


edit on 13-4-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Smell The Roses
 


I'm Really sorry in advance…

Ohhhh but I just can't help myself... I'm going to call out that your friend really never worked a REAL day in his life... I also going to go out on a limb (just from reading this) and say he was brought up in a wealthy to semi-wealthy family that paid his way all through high school (I had a full time job all through high school to help support my mom and sisters), received a nice car upon graduation as a gift for doing so well... and got accepted to a prestigious college, which again the parents paid for. At this prestigious college he was introduced to the "in" crowd (also known as the "good ol' boy system") and never looked back after that because it's not WHAT you know it WHO you know.... and 9 times out of 10 the way someone becomes rich is by *uckin someone (everyone) else over, period.

and now on to critiquing cause I got some time and your mason buddy sounds like a doosh




The absurdity of class warfare…


The only person that would spew such a nonsense induces title is someone from the wealth class




The division of our population over class is a ruse for government control of more resources and has reached campaign pitch.


There is no ruse... "the government" is in the clip of any large bill-fold... just because an individual doesn't receive a cash bribe hand out then and there, doesn't mean he or she (or their 3rd party) does not have loads of strategic investments involved in a specific goal or that they won't receive millions for "advising" after their political service.




All the talking heads who are defining for the public what is relevant, poignant and fundamental have gone completely outside the realm of rational thinking.


one of the only correct statement in this whole thing but then you go and screw it up with your next sentence




The democrat method that has formed to create more separation between wealth and wannabe is undermining our society.


Democrats and Republicans have the same goals. In fact they have like 2 differences, Abortion & Taxes (one says more for the poor the other less for the rich).... what undermines our society is systems like the Electoral College (group that chooses the POTUS) or Federal Reserve (group that creates perpetual debt for everyone) or the Energy Companies (who bleed the populous of money for their nuclear and gas poison power) the FDA (group that OK's one chemical after the other for human consumption but deems raw milk bad for you)..... really I could run out of space real quick.... so I'll stop




Our country and every other will and has historically matured into a class system in which there will always be a ruling class managing the resources of man and earth.


Matured??? More like Manipulated, more times then not throughout history the general society had their spiritual beliefs exploited by the ruling class... more recently it has been combined with emotion because we now have the freedom of not to believe.... TPTB have had millennia to perfect their game..




It exists everywhere on the planet without exception. N. Korea a perfect example of isolated communism (wealth redistribution) and clearly is a painful example of how these methods the democrats are employing prove out in practice.


Dude, I have this feeling I’m going to be repeating this over and over “Democrats and Republicans have the same goals”. Anyway, that mentality must have spawned that stupid saying "If you don't like it here move to another country" ( Can't wait to get that balls enough to rebuttal with, "Beach! It’s people like me, who questions the establishment that make this country great, not lazy and compliant doosh bags like yourself… so STFU before I take my riled up Thomas-Jefferson-Inner-Child-Ass and explode it onto your face like a bad case of the flu")



It matters not under what type of government structure one lives the people will naturally establish their own set of leaders and followers, any social circumstance will demonstrate same.


Oh Oh oH… found one more piece of truth, in my opinion though, the only thing they keep forgetting to do is set in stone that “The immediate execution of leadership shall ensue upon the evidence of disloyalty to the people” (ie: screw over people = death)



Damn.... thought I could beat the clock and comment on all.... times up... maybe I'll have time to comment more next week

Stay tuned to the same poop time.... same poop channel



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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It doesn't support government control of resources, but the capitalists control of resources, capitalists control government. We have to stop blaming problems of the economy on government, who have no real control on the economy other than superficial.

Class is a result of the capitalist economic system. The private ownership of the means of production created the class system. If we wish to free ourselves from the shackles of wage slavery, we have to be prepared to fight the class system. That means breaking down the systems that create divisions of class in the first place, that being primarily the economic inequality caused by capitalism.

An economy of worker ownership would take away the class system. So simple, yet so complicated are it's detractions.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by Smell The Roses
 



Please share your thoughts, as I am positive most Americans are feeling the weight of this war on a daily basis.

The middle class used to be the American dream. You realize they are killing the American dream along side its citizens...just in a discreet, indirect way.


S&F!


I think Charlie is dead on! I only disagree with one thing he said:


Achievers “are” already taxed equally as they are making their fortunes.


This is not true! Achievers are NOT taxed equally in the current PROGRESSIVE tax system. Equal means everyone pays the same regardless of earnings (FLAT TAX). The wealthiest Americans currently pay @35% while the less fortunate pay zero. I’m not saying the current system isn’t FAIR but it certainly isn’t EQUAL.

IMO anyone arguing that the wealthiest American’s aren’t paying their ‘fair share’ should begin paying the top marginal tax rate for a few months. I bet they’ll rethink their position.


edit on 13-4-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by randomname
 



it distributes wealth, only to the party leaders and military elite, plus it's associates.


This is exactly what will happen if we try it in America! Hell, that's what TPTB have been doing here for YEARS (robbing us blind while making their friends richer)!

Do you think the idiots who ran Fanny & Freddy, USPO, Social Security Admin, etc into the ground will equitably distribute wealth to you and me??


Name ONE government program that has ever been successful rather than a huge loss of tax payer money.

edit on 13-4-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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WE as a COUNTRY are in DEBT and in TROUBLE.

WE as a COUNTRY all use that which our TAXES go towards.

WE as a COUNTRY have folks that HAVE and folks that HAVE NOT.

WE as a COUNTRY need to do something to get OUR country BACK in shape.

The HAVES, being part of OUR country HAVE the MEANS to help out the COUNTRY that we ALL are part of.

Thats not "class warfare" that is COMMON FREAKIN' SENSE.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by HangTheTraitors
 



The HAVES, being part of OUR country HAVE the MEANS to help out the COUNTRY that we ALL are part of.


So they should turn over their money until we’re all financially equal? It might sound ‘fair’ to the have-nots but how is that fair to the folks getting robbed? Who would be motivated to work hard or start a company if nobody could make more money than their peers and subordinates?

If 75% of Americans had no legs should the remaining 25% cut theirs off to make things equal? Who would do all of the jobs that required legs??

Wouldn't it be better if we work to bring the ‘have-nots’ UP rather than bringing the ‘haves’ DOWN?


edit on 13-4-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
So they should turn over their money until we’re all financially equal? It might sound ‘fair’ to the have-nots but how is that fair to the folks getting robbed? Who would be motivated to work hard or start a company if nobody could make more money than their peers and subordinates?


Slow down there matey it doesn't work quite like that. Even if it did the 'haves' got their money from the 'have nots' by exploiting their only ability to make money, that being their labour. That has been going on for almost 300 years. So the haves owe the have-nots, do they owe us a living? Of course they .....do!


If 75% of Americans had no legs should the remaining 25% cut theirs off to make things equal? Who would do all of the jobs that required legs??


No, you give the 75% legs. Was that a trick question, or something?


Wouldn't it be better if we work to bring the ‘have-nots’ UP rather than bringing the ‘haves’ DOWN?


Yes, and the only way to do that is to change the system that allow people to be 'haves', that causes 'have-nots' in the first place.

Resources necessary for everyone to enjoy the fruits of our labours are already available, and have been for a long time. Capitalism keeps these resources, including the means to produce and 'jobs', artificially scarce because of the need to make profit. The capitalist owner and the 'worker' have a conflict of interest. The capitalists requires profit, the worker requires resources. The capitalist monopolize those resources, keeps them artificially scarce, and the worker has to accept exploitation to gain access to those resources.

All resources of the Earth are stolen from us if we are denied their use due to false economic controls. Money is just an artificial tool of control. It makes sure only a few elite people have ultimate control, power, over Humanity.
It's beyond money at those levels, money is irrelevant when you have every resources available to you. Money just makes sure those at the bottom stay at the bottom and those at the top stay at the top.


edit on 4/13/2012 by ANOK because: it's a commie takeover Harry



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
So they should turn over their money until we’re all financially equal? It might sound ‘fair’ to the have-nots but how is that fair to the folks getting robbed? Who would be motivated to work hard or start a company if nobody could make more money than their peers and subordinates?


I didn't finish my thoughts on this for some reason.

Anyway, first off capitalism is an economic system based on surplus value. Surplus value is what labour produces in excess of labour costs, which is appropriated by capitalists as profit. That is the exploitation of labour.

A worker owned economic system (socialism) is a needs based economic system. As the capitalists desire for profit is replaced by the needs of the community the 'workers' belong to.

Workers don't need to be motivated to produce for their own needs. They do have to be coerced and black mailed to work for a private owner. It has been estimated that in a needs based system we would only have to work three hours a day. A 15 hour week, compared to a forty hour week. Then of course workers would either be paid more, as surplus value would belong to the producer rather than a 3rd party private owner, or prices would drop, and eventually disappear, as the artificial scarcity of resources caused by capitalism is replaced with an abundance of resources. That is communism, free association of producers who own the means of production with no state or social class.

We all share in the producing, we all share in the fruits of that production. No one needs to be poor, that is simply caused by artificial scarcity. We have the machinery and labour to produce more than we need.

If you're not motivated you don't share in the fruits of OTHERS labour. That is a capitalist notion. A capitalist notion easily taken advantage of, so please don't blame welfare scammers for the systems mistakes. Don't try to tell me capitalists don't take every advantage, cut every corner, or downright act criminal in their business dealings. Capitalism makes that a right for owners of capital who hire wage labour.



No need for the capitalists to turn over anything. Anyone who can start a private company can start a worker owned company. The reason that happens so rarely is we are conditioned from birth that the capitalist economic system is the only viable system. We are not taught there are viable alternatives, only that "socialism is evil, look at Russia". We are conditioned to think of ourselves first, and not our communities, but we were never told that that thinking would be very good for capitalism but ultimately destroy society. Individualism is nothing but another way to divide and weaken our power against the state.


edit on 4/14/2012 by ANOK because: it's a commie takeover Harry



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