Take this Poll: Should we go to war to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear capabilities?

Alright.I say yes ,but I am not your leader I am me.I believe my instincts have very correctly identified the Iranian leadership as a threat.All MY intelligence sources,history and current events CLEARLY indicate if we sit on our hands now ,there will be a hostile nuclear incident.If this is to happen so be it.Retaliation will be unrestricted,we didn't do that with Japan as there is still a Japan(thank God).If this is acceptable,and you think we can trust the situation to be peaceful,then remember what unrestricted can mean.I don't want to hear any BS about how powerful any military is.nuke strikes trump all that garbage.As occult books say fire permeates all.I read a lot of things.Like history.
If they want their Imam ,like they said,or they want to destroy Israel,like Ahmadinejad said, then I think I have something to worry about.The Iranian leadership.
So throw your dice,I don't hate anyone.

My opinion. If my neighbor picked up a rock, would i pick up a rock too. Sure my neighbor could throw it at me but," will he?" and if he had hundreds of rocks and i had one, i guess i would be in trouble if stones were thrown. Fear of what if this or that happens, you want to be prepared, right? Sure you do not want to be the one who gets all those rocks thrown at you, so you grab some of your own. The more he grabs, the more you grab. My question is at what point do you have enough rocks to throw. I say take away all the rocks, so the CHILDREN don't hurt themselves or anything else. Does this make sense?

If an alien race came down here that is exactly how they would look at it. Oh, those children are at it again.

1984: Soon after West German engineers visit the unfinished Bushehr nuclear reactor, Jane's Defence Weekly quotes West German intelligence sources saying that Iran's production of a bomb "is entering its final stages." US Senator Alan Cranston claims Iran is seven years away from making a weapon.

Netanyahu 1992: Iran will Have the Bomb by 1997

1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres predicts an Iranian nuclear warhead by 1999 to French TV.

1992: Joseph Alpher, a former official of Israel's Mossad spy agency, says "Iran has to be identified as Enemy No. 1." Iran's nascent nuclear program, he told The New York Times, "really gives Israel the jitters."

The same alarm bells were already ringing in Washington, where in early 1992 a task force of the House Republican Research Committee claimed that there was a "98 percent certainty that Iran already had all (or virtually all) of the components required for two or three operational nuclear weapons."

1995: The New York Times conveys the fears of senior US and Israeli officials that "Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought" – about five years away – and that Iran’s nuclear bomb is “at the top of the list” of dangers in the coming decade. The report speaks of an "acceleration of the Iranian nuclear program," claims that Iran "began an intensive campaign to develop and acquire nuclear weapons" in 1987, and says Iran was "believed" to have recruited scientists from the former Soviet Union and Pakistan to advise them.

1998: The New York Times said that Israel was less safe as a result of the launch even though Israel alone in the Middle East possessed both nuclear weapons and the long-range missiles to drop them anywhere. "The major reaction to this is going to be from Israel, and we have to worry what action the Israelis will take," the Times quoted a former intelligence official as saying. An unidentified expert said: "This test shows Iran is bent on acquiring nuclear weapons, because no one builds an 800-mile missile to deliver conventional warheads."

1998 The same week, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld reports to Congress that Iran could build an intercontinental ballistic missile – one that could hit the US – within five years

Lather, scrub, rinse, repeat..every year continuing until NOW. www.csmonitor.com...

We've been hearing Iran is going to get a nuke and wipe out Israel OR the United States for 20 years. What we are hearing NOW is EXACTLY what we heard before we invaded Iraq (which was an senseless atrocity).

Yet, the majority STILL believe that if the media says something is so, it MUST be true. Even when the media has been telling the SAME LIE since 1984. Even after unnecessarily sacrificing the lives of 6,000 of our troops.

When people speak to you about a PREVENTIVE war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing. ~Dwight D. Eisenhauer

Absolutely NO to war with Iran.

You can fight this war now –or-fight this war later
BTW -Eisenhower was a ##ity president
www.prevailmagazine.org...
In a speech to the U.N. General Assembly on September 17, 2005, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spoke of a plan for world peace.
He told the Assembly
“When that day comes, the ultimate promise of all Divine religions will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being who is heir to all prophets and pious men. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace”
Iranian President, Ahmadinejad, closed his speech by calling for the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam, the Mahdi. He prayed before the assembly,
“O Mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one, that perfect human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace.”
Why is the President of Iran praying for the return of the Mahdi, the so-called perfect human who will bring peace on Earth?
Because, Shi’ite Muslims believe the Twelfth Imam, or Mahdi, the last in a line of saints, descended from Ali, the founder of their sect and vanished down a well in 941 AD. According to this belief, he went into a state of occulation’ like the sun hiding behind the clouds. The story goes on and claims that after a stormy period of apocalyptic wars, the clouds will part, and the sun (the Mahdi) will be revealed. They believe that when he is released from his imprisonment, the entire world will submit to Islam. This belief is the driving force behind Ahmadinejad, Ayatollah Khameni, and the majority of the central figures in the Iranian government.
Ahmadinejad and tens of thousands of mullahs are controlling Iran (ancient Persia) and are dead serious about the Mahdi’s return. They are all connected and impassioned with fiery, zealous, religious fervor. Ahmadinejad believes Iran’s redemption will come through a volatile mixture of Islamic ideology and confronting the “world conspiracy” they deeply suspect is instigated by the Crusaders and Zionists (America and Israel); this suspicion and hatred goes back hundreds of years.
In fact, the origin of the volatile hatred dates back to the book of Genesis where Moses wrote about Ishmael, Abraham’s son by Hagar. Moses writes,
“And he [Ishmael] will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren” (Genesis 16:11-12)
Ahmadenijad will continue his ‘divine’ calling to ensure the revelation of the Twelfth Imam. He is determined to bring the Twelfth Imam out of occultation and present him as the ‘savior of mankind.’ With the second coming of the Mahdi, Shi’ites expect to realize the final triumph of Islam around the world. At present, there is no force able to stop his relentless pursuit of nuclear bombs and missiles to destroy Israel and cripple the U.S. In like manner, Osama will proceed with his al-Qaeda operatives around the world. The final triumph will not come without an intense struggle. The Ayatollah Khomeini firmly believed that only a proper structured Islamic theocracy could create the conditions needed for the return of the Twelfth Imam. Khomeini also believed he was on a mission from God
Once Iran has the necessary nuclear bombs or missiles, Israel, the U.S. and/or even Europe will be threatened with a thermonuclear exchange if any of these countries expects or attempts a regime change in Iran.
Michael Evans, author of, Showdown with Nuclear Iran, gives a chilling example of just how feasible a nuclear attack could be manifested by Iran on the U.S. and Israel, and has set up an illustrative scenario depicting a nuclear attack:
Nabih Osami was the Director General of Pakistan Shipping Lines in the port city of Karachi. Brigadier General Hossein Shirazi paid a visit to Osami to discuss having a special compartment built on the cargo deck on one of Osami’s container ships. Shirazi wanted a space twice the normal size of a container space of eight feet wide, nine feet tall, and forty feet long. The container would be a permanent fixture of the ship and be covered with a normal container load. The deck had to be able to deploy a vehicle from the compartment and clear the deck above the container. The Shadow-3, one of Osman’s new container ships, dropped anchor outside of the Port of New York. He was sailing under a Panamanian flag for anonymity. Inside the special lead lined compartment, was a Russian built missile launcher, an MHZ 534 transport erector launcher. The erector raised a fifty three foot long Shabab-3 missile skyward. At exactly 6:30 AM EST the Revolutionary Guard Commander in charge of the missile pushed a button and sent the Shebab-3 shooting star missile carrying a 550-kiloton enriched uranium nuclear warhead into space. It detonated at 80,000 feet. When it exploded it sent a barrage of gamma rays to earth and created an Electromagnetic Pulse. The EMP instantly reached a radius of several hundred miles and rendered all electronic equipment inoperable. All cell and land phones, electrical equipment, lights, motors, and computers were dead due to the pulse. The eastern half of the U.S. was in a state of shock and disbelief. All agencies in the government and civilian areas could not contact each other due to the EMP energy pulse. The President and the military tried to discern what had happened. With the country silent from the EMP pulse, there was no way to know who attacked us and why. At exactly 6:30 AM, another container ship 250 miles off the coast of Norfolk, Virginia, a second Shabab-3 missile was launched carrying a 550 kiloton warhead headed for Washington DC. Eight minutes later a mushroom cloud formed over our nation’s capital destroying a large portion of the city. At the time of these two nuclear blasts a third missile was fired from Rafah, Egypt, toward Tel Aviv, Israel. With the blast, all communications in Israel also went dead. All three crews knew they were an integral part of ushering in the Twelfth Imam.”

“Oh for years we hear they are building the bomb, whatever”
Why is it not finished now?

www.cbsnews.com...

CBS News) Could the Stuxnet virus that sabotaged the Iranian nuclear program be used against the U.S. infrastructure or other high profile targets? A retired American general who was the head of the Central Intelligence Agency when Stuxnet would have been created calls the cyber weapon a "good idea," but warns it is out there now for others to exploit. Steve Kroft reports on Stuxnet and the potential consequences of its use in a "60 Minutes" story to be broadcast Sunday, March 4 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.
About two years ago, the all-important centrifuges at Iran's nuclear fuel enrichment facility at Natanz began failing at a suspicious rate. Iran eventually admitted that computer code created problems for their centrifuges, but downplayed any lasting damage. Computer security experts now agree that code was a sophisticated computer worm dubbed Stuxnet, and that it destroyed more than 1,000 centrifuges. Many believe the U.S., in conjunction with Israel, sabotaged the system. Retired Gen. Mike Hayden, once head of the NSA and CIA, who was no longer in office when the attack occurred, denies knowing who was behind it, but said, "This was a good idea, alright? But I also admit this was a big idea, too. The rest of the world is looking at this and saying, 'Clearly, someone has legitimated this kind of activity as acceptable.'"
Not only that, says Hayden, but the weapon, unlike a conventional bomb that is obliterated on contact, remains intact. "So there are those out there who can take a look at this...and maybe even attempt to turn it to their own purposes," he tells Kroft.
In fact, says Sean McGurk, who once led the Department of Homeland Security's efforts to secure U.S. systems from cyberattack , "You can download the actual source code of Stuxnet now and you can repackage it...point it back to wherever it came from." McGurk worries terrorists or a rogue country could refashion it to attack U.S. infrastructure like the power grid or water treatment facilities, even nuclear power plants. He tells Kroft he would never have advised anyone to unleash such a weapon. "They opened the box. They demonstrated the capability...it's not something that can put back."
The creators of Stuxnet never intended their worm to be discovered says one of the people most responsible for deconstructing its code. Liam O Murchu, an operations manager for computer virus security company Symantec, thinks whoever launched it partially failed because the virus was discovered. "You don't want the code uncovered, you want it kept secret," says O Murchu. "You want it to just keep working, stay undercover, do its damage and disappear."
Creating such a cyberweapon, so sophisticated it could be hiding in any number of computers but only strikes the target it was intended to, probably cost many millions. Now, with the code out there, it can be replicated cheaply. "You just need a couple of millions," says Ralph Langner, an expert in industrial control systems who also was instrumental in analyzing Stuxnet. And it wouldn't take the resources of a government to find the right people he says; they are on the Internet. "If I would be tasked with assembling a cyberforce, yeah, I would know whom to approach. So that's not a real secret," says Langner


Iran Nuclear Sabotage Suspected After Reports of Blasts at Atomic Centers
By Ladane Nasseri - Nov 29, 2011 4:22 AM CTTue Nov 29 10:22:34 GMT 2011
www.bloomberg.com...

www.isis-online.org...

Broader sabotage of Iran’s imported equipment is another well-known tactic of Western intelligence agencies. Intelligence agencies first infiltrate an Iranian smuggling network and provide the goods the network seeks, but not before they first modify the goods so they will not work, perhaps in a way that will damage adjacent equipment. Sometimes bugging devices are placed in the equipment and send information about operations after the equipment is installed at a site. This technique has likely revealed at least one of Iran’s secret nuclear sites and, according to official Iranian statements, to have caused centrifuges to break. Undoubtedly, the tactic is being pursued more diligently today by a range of countries.
There are several riskier strategies that are being pursued against Iran that have serious downsides and implications. Assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists and engineers have occurred with greater frequency but should be stopped because they carry too high a risk of retaliation and involve terrorism against civilians. Moreover, assassinations are unlikely to be effective in setting back the nuclear program, which involves thousands of specialists and ingrained know-how. Furthermore, Iran could argue that assassinations are equivalent to a military attack and use this as justification for further provocations. An under-siege mentality created by use of such tactics could motivate Iran to further degrade its cooperation with the IAEA and resist offers of negotiation.
Recent major accidents at Iranian facilities have led to speculation that countries are conducting sabotage against significant Iranian missile and nuclear-related sites. An explosion late last year at a major missile production facility outside Tehran is being called sabotage by some.12 In December 2012, there was an explosion at the newly opened Ghadir steelworks in Yazd that reportedly could have been making maraging steel. Despite Iranian denials of sabotage and a lack of clear evidence of sabotage, these cases have ignited a debate into the risks, feasibility, and desirability of sabotaging major facilities via covert operations that go beyond cyber attacks.

Slowed but not Stopped
The methods described above help explain Iran’s delayed progress in developing its nuclear weapons capabilities. However, they have not completely stopped Iran’s nuclear programs from making progress toward that goal. Iran continues to make both 3.5 and 19.75 percent LEU, and it has recently tripled its rate of 19.75 percent LEU production with the installation of IR-1 centrifuges at the Fordow enrichment site. Enrichment at this site started in late 2011. Iran has recently brought the total number of enriching centrifuges at the Natanz Fuel Enrichment Plant to about 9,000 IR-1 centrifuges, which is the number it had installed by 2009, when so many troubles started. As mentioned above, it has also installed over 8,000 empty IR-1 centrifuge casings at Natanz and Fordow, perhaps to be loaded with rotor assemblies, although many doubt that Iran can make so many rotors.
Increasingly, Iran’s enrichment program appears to be geared toward making 19.75 percent LEU as opposed to just stockpiling 3.5 percent LEU. If this is the case, most of its total monthly 3.5 percent LEU production at the Natanz Fuel Enrichment Plant would be turned into 19.75 percent LEU, producing about 15 kilograms of 19.75 percent LEU hexafluoride per month.
An on-hand stockpile in Iran of 19.75 percent LEU would greatly reduce the time necessary for making one bomb’s worth of weapon-grade uranium. At a three-fold rate of production, Iran could produce enough 19.75 percent LEU for a nuclear weapon by late 2012 but more likely by early 2013
Iran’s efforts to build covert nuclear sites, which it could operate out of sight of IAEA inspectors, have time and again failed either through good IAEA detective work or Western intelligence agency discoveries. The most recent case is the confirmation by Western intelligence in mid-2009 that Iran was building a clandestine centrifuge plant near the city of Qom. Senior officials close to the IAEA suspect that this enrichment site was intended to be part of a parallel, secret program to produce weapon-grade uranium under the control of the Iranian military. That facility, now called the Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant (FFEP), is currently under IAEA safeguards, and Iran declared that it is dedicated to the production of 3.5 percent and 19.75 percent uranium. The November 2011 IAEA safeguards report on Iran contains numerous other examples of secret military related nuclear activities and facilities in Iran discovered by about ten IAEA member states, including the United States, Britain, France, Germany, and Israel.
In order to deter Iran from constructing covert nuclear sites, intelligence options aimed at their detection remain vitally important.

At all cost NO NUKES FOR IRAN

Arm every nation with nukes and allow evolution to take its own course...!

reply to post by Skepticalifragilistic


Terrorists do not care about being threatened. If Iran's theocratic regime is on Jihad (and under sharia, they will be) then they will do whatever is necessary to spread the psuedo-religion of Islam (it's not religion it's just a bunch of hypocritical laws and corrupt politics). Ofcourse this will drag nonmuslims in the country down with the regime unless you force a regime change and go in and set up a secular regime where the government is not all for "kill the infidel" but excersices freedom of religion to keep the citizens happy. All governments should have seperation of church and state to keep radical superstitious religions from doing serious damage to their citizens and the rest of the world by gaining power.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Skepticalifragilistic

 

Terrorists do not care about being threatened. If Iran's theocratic regime is on Jihad (and under sharia, they will be) then they will do whatever is necessary to spread the psuedo-religion of Islam (it's not religion it's just a bunch of hypocritical laws and corrupt politics). Ofcourse this will drag nonmuslims in the country down with the regime unless you force a regime change and go in and set up a secular regime where the government is not all for "kill the infidel" but excersices freedom of religion to keep the citizens happy. All governments should have seperation of church and state to keep radical superstitious religions from doing serious damage to their citizens and the rest of the world by gaining power.

Even "terrorists" have a soft spot. Do not believe these people care of nothing. You might find interest in how these Muslim extremists were dealt with back in WW1. Defer to the tactics of Gen. Black Jack Pershing.

The legend goes that after continued terrorist attacks on US troops and installations -in addition to the massacre of captured American soldiers- General Pershing ordered his Marines to go out and round-up 50 adult male perps. Back at the base, they were promptly strapped to wooden polls, execution-style. As the firing squad had been ordered -and to the resolute horror of the Moro captives- a couple pigs were freshly slaughtered right in front of them. Our guys then soaked their bullets in the blood and fat prior to loading. After executing the first 49 -who according to the Koran were automatically barred from Paradise (even while dying a martyr) due to porcine 'contamination'- Pershing had the bodies unceremoniously tossed into a mass grave with the residual pig carcasses/entrails piled-high on top, a yummy snack for the confounded jihadis to enjoy on the way to Hell. The 50th Islamist was then cut loose to go tell everybody back at the encampment exactly what he'd just witnessed... and for 42 years, there was not a single Muslim terrorist attack anywhere in the world... how bout that.

They are not immune to "shock and awe."

All governments should practice separation of church and state...including the U.S.A. Most people belong to the Church of Capitalism. They spend 10,12, even 14 hours a day worshiping and working to become "one" with their Savior, their God. They call their Savior Moolah, Dinero, Cash, the Dollar. Their politicians are chosen based on which candidate is closer to their God. In this church it is the ascended Masters, those closest to Moolah, which make the laws. In the Church of Capitalism only one thing is higher than the law...our Lord, Moolah.

All religions look crazy to those on the outside looking in...we fear what we do not understand.

reply to post by jiggerj


I don't know....Should Iran go to war to prevent Israel from bombing their nuclear facilities?!

reply to post by Skepticalifragilistic


Black Jack knew how to deal with them, in those days anything went in war. Now though? People who do those things get branded war criminals and shipped off to the nearest military tribunal and it only fuels jihad when they see your weakness.

Not that i advocate such actions, but the secular world is permitted to do what the religious world is forbidden, although islam is free to do pretty much any crime to any nonmuslim and it is lauded as heroism and in that respect they are the hunters and we are the prey.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I agree that we've exposed weakness that is preyed upon. I do not believe war should have rules. I was always taught that winning a fight has nothing to do with how big, strong, or fast you are. Winning a fight comes down to what you are willing to do to win. How far you are willing to go to win. Your greatest weapon is not your fist, not your muscles, not your AR15. It is your mind, your brain, that is key to winning a fight.

Keep your enemy closer...

Perhaps we not only should allow Iran nukes but we sell them one. Sell them a proper power plant and sell them the fuel. With this comes oversight and safe guards of course. Perhaps in time all the worlds nuclear power plants can be kept in Iran. A place that nobody would really miss should a fallout occur.

NO MORE WAR, PERIOD!

No. I do not believe we would go to war to stop Italy or Belgium from developing a nuclear weapon if they decided they wanted to.
But I have a hard time trying to think of a Muslim country we would not threaten if they began.
So exactly what is our policy?
Only white Christian nations are allowed to develop WMDs?
Is that politically correct or permissible?
Would we really threaten to invade Denmark if they decided to develop a nuclear weapon? Yes? Why do I have a hard time believing that?
I yam so confused.

Originally posted by Siddharta
I agree. No idiots should have nuclear power.

So Americans should not have them.

edit on 13-4-2012 by Siddharta because: #, those stupid letters

Ok Ok ATS, so this is where I learn that I REALLY cannot star a post more than once. Not even the next day.

Very well said, Siddharta!

reply to post by Puck 22


White christian nations prefer negotiations with words..in the open.We don't threaten to kill the Chinese for our trade issues do we?We don't send in the SAS to kill the populations, just individual targets.And of course we are not trying to destroy our father land because they were ruling over us and we rebelled nor are they trying to kill us.We didn't nuke Viet Nam when they mutilated our guys ,we just did it back and it's over.
Iran has a chip about us being SATAN. Our very lives are considered a defilement of Allah to some of these clowns in charge of the country,their own people say they are whacked. They put you in the same basket as the Crusaders centuries ago.And yet some of you will allow this to proceed because you can't be bothered to read history?You don't want to know how nukes are made and you won't learn in order to understand.All you know is how bad war is not how to prevent a bad one by a lesser one.True this can be ideologically manipulated.But not with that many centrifuges and no containment buildings for peaceful exploitation of nuclear energy.Did you hear about all the Iranian techs on site at the "rocket" launch in North Korea?Theres a group of humanitarians for you, if you agree with infanticidal cannibalism. Why wasn't that money spent on food instead?
But you fear a greater conflict would be the death of us all.Russia wants money, their military isn't going to do squat,that might make us mad.China is too busy selling us crap,while they are constructing their own economic failure by artificial growth.

My answer is no.

Why cant we just stay on the defensive for a couple decades and re-build our economy and defenses here? Re-build our educational system because you know thats been all shot to hell. Do something about the Mexico borders? Or, wait.. reclaim Texas again because its full of mexicans.

Originally posted by Colleague
My answer is no.

Why cant we just stay on the defensive for a couple decades and re-build our economy and defenses here? Re-build our educational system because you know that's been all shot to hell. Do something about the Mexico borders? Or, wait.. reclaim Texas again because its full of Mexicans.

No..that cannot happen, the economy of the nation has been re-designed around the military/economic model that requires wars to be fought , weapons to be sold, so jobs can be maintained. That is why wars are a must, i assumed everyone was aware of the fundamentals of the economy and the industrial complex that requires wars to be conducted on a decade by decade level so the majority of u.s. citizens can enjoy their life style they have been accustomed to. The current economic model has been applied to Ru. U.K. Fr. De. Au. Cn. and several others that aren't as significant but will be in about three decades.