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Is It Ok To Smudge The Truth A Little In Order To Help Awaken Others?

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posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Ok so as the question states is it ok to smudge the truth a little to get those that believe nothing is going on in order for them to pay attention. I of course dont mean the attention from everyone but maybe family and some people that you may concerned with.

For example, something so simple as the old saying that if you swallow gum it takes X amount of years to leave your system, how this got famous I dont know but it worked. Lets say you know someone that is hurting themselves with chemicals, or additives, etc,. and you know that in the long run this is going to do harm, so you tell them that this may in fact cause them harm along the way, and they dismiss it.


Do you A, bring it up nonchalantly and say here are the medical implications of the long term damage, here is a video about what it can do, and here is the research, which most likely they will ignore...

Or B, you tell them that this will cause something way more drastic then it will actually do, but may stop them from doing it? And just go right for the scare tactic that people seem to be so fond of, like if you do XYZ, you will glow like a lantern and it will cause Nibiru to seek out those that are glowing and destroy you in a wave of utter destruction!!

Yes of course that was a exaggeration, but you get the picture.

Peace, NRE.




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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I would go with the Truth, because if they find out you're outright lying you lost ALL credibility when it matters most.

And they will probably not stop a darn thing.

The Truth is enough.

You know my take though? MODERATION. Corn syrup? Sure, in moderation. Processed foods? Sure, but not every day, all day. The body can take a lot, what it can't take is a siege. Nothing can.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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Never smudge the truth! Never. It does so much more damage than good. If this person awakens based on a lie, then hears seveal actual truths, he will dismiss all of it and will listen to no more when the lie is revealed.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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If you don't tell them the truth, how can they be awaken?



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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I dont like the idea but I think there is truth to the fact that being sensational gets results. I have been reading about Hitler alot lately. His views on propaganda are very interesting. He rightly saw the general public as being collectively too stupid to understand a message if it was too complex. He understood how to speak to the public in a way that allowed them to absorb his message without having to think too hard. And he used repetition.

The funniest thing was he seemed very annoyed by 'intellectual's' that could not understand this. He had members of his own party question how he delivered his message. He was like 'Im talking to the idiots you idiot. Are you some kind of idiot?' (paraphrasing)
edit on 10-4-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-4-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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In my opinion it's better to say the truth, if you modify the information in order to make the person stop doing whatever they're doing that would be manipulating them, it doesn't matter if it really its harming them, they'd end up doing that you want them to do, believing what you want them to believe and not being truly themselves... Understanding the harms of what one does is part of growing up and taking responsability on our own life, we can't do it through lies told by others, wether they care a lot for us or not..



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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That's a road to places you really don;t want to go. Where does it stop? Look at our politicians. They will tell us literally ANYTHING to get their way. The truth is immaterial to someone with a "heartfelt cause" to change society. At first it is a small lie to help their cause along, and eventually it ends with sending people to Siberia or concentration camps, killing them because they do not agree with the noble cause.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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I'd definitely smudge the truth often if I knew it'd help. (and probably have done.)

Say in a situation where you recommend checking something out that they otherwise wouldn't, I'd smudge it then so that they checked it out if I thought it was going to help them get closer to the truth, and I'd do it in a million other cases too.

Personally my main aim would be for people to get help in some way or gain some real knowledge, them thinking I'm a lying whatever wouldn't bother me at all, because if I was ever called on it I'd just openly admit that I didn't think they'd have taken my advice if I'd have told the truth, and I just wanted to help.

I think this probably happens all the time anyway. (white lies, etc.) I'd have no issue with people doing it to me all the time either, as long as the end result was myself or others being helped more. If it was a case of me being helped at the expense of others though, that's when I'd not like it.

I also see our whole lives as like this in a way. We're guided along by this and that, maybe because if we were to have the truth handed straight to us we'd probably not be able to handle it at all. That's also maybe why we kind of live in a reality of smudged truths. Then as we seek for truth we're kind of removing the smudges, like you'd undo smudges that'd been added to a pic in photoshop or something, with the undo option. Hard to describe really but hopefully some know what I mean.
edit on 10-4-2012 by robhines because: added



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Its not the truth so its irreverent. If you use media type propaganda fear then you are no better then the people pushing it. The main reason the media reports on city crimes is to scare the # out of you. You are only helping them by keeping another person in fear. Tell them the truth, if they do not see it then they will pay. When they do finally look at the research they are going to realize that they have been lied to. Starting rumor's with out evidence does not go far in the truth community.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Infi8nity
Its not the truth so its irreverent. If you use media type propaganda fear then you are no better then the people pushing it. The main reason the media reports on city crimes is to scare the # out of you. You are only helping them by keeping another person in fear. Tell them the truth, if they do not see it then they will pay. When they do finally look at the research they are going to realize that they have been lied to. Starting rumor's with out evidence does not go far in the truth community.


Just to add : in my previous post I was talking about scenarios where you knew people wouldn't otherwise even go for what you suggested. Would you rather see someone suffer or smudge the truth to help them? It's not an easy one this really.

If it's to help people, fine, (I wouldn't care what anyone thought either, if it was to help people that otherwise wouldn't have the help I'd do it, unless someone were to prove it wasn't for the best of the all, that's the only point I'd hold back with my smudge tool.) if it's to help yourself or a small group at the expense of others, not fine. That's basically the way I see it.

Seriously though, I think we're pretty much living in a reality of smudged truths. Even those that are helping us from places we don't know of probably smudge the truth often to lessen the blow and make things gradual.

Take this world and Aliens for example. What do you think would be best? WHAMMO, Aliens hovering in the skies all over, or a gradual disclosure so that people have time to adapt? You have to look at the bigger picture sometimes and in those cases I think it's pretty much impossible not to smudge the truth.
edit on 10-4-2012 by robhines because: added



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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A lie is a lie. No big 1's, no little white 1's. Just lies. Partial/censored truth is not completely honest and just another way of telling a lie.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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I think this is the thought process that got our current President into office. Ideology trumping truth...nope, don't like it.

Des



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 




Is It Ok To Smudge The Truth A Little In Order To Help Awaken Others?


I recall lying to my children... back when they were still pre-schoolers, telling them that the zucchini squash from the family garden had been grown by chipmunks. They ate it every time we served it! I once told my son... when he was maybe 2nd grade, that a certain food (I forget which) was actually toxic sludge and he cleaned it up.

People all have lines... call them, preferred lines, where you can go and tell them exactly what they want to hear and often get them to do whatever you want. Is this a sin? Yes, undoubtedly... but i think that you will be judged half & half... on action and intent.

Halfway to hell is a lot better than fighting off fire ants in July.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenRuled
A lie is a lie. No big 1's, no little white 1's. Just lies. Partial/censored truth is not completely honest and just another way of telling a lie.


Ok then, I'd lie often if it was to help people then.
You're putting it in black and white and it's really not how it is.

Think of Donnie Darko and him explaining that there's a whole spectrum inbetween those two points that his teacher had put on the whiteboard/whatever it was. That can be applied here.

If someone was to have their lives saved because you lied to them, do you think they'd be bothered? Then you scale it down from there. It happens and I guess we just have to deal with it. It's when it's being done for selfish ends that it causes problems.


Originally posted by redoubt

I recall lying to my children... back when they were still pre-schoolers, telling them that the zucchini squash from the family garden had been grown by chipmunks. They ate it every time we served it!


Haha, that's awesome.

edit on 10-4-2012 by robhines because: added



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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no, because lies are an infection that spread to cover the truth.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Always the truth. This is from someone who uses interview and interrogation as a major part of my now civillian career. 100% credibility is whats needed to finally succeed in convincing someone of the truth. Once there is a hole in that credibility the whole shebang falls apart. Then trying to give it the "Ok i lied about a little piece but the rest is true" makes you look like a crazy dumbass. When i talk with people about subjects that may seem bizarre ie like the topics we see on ATS i always start with the "Now i know that your an intelligent person and thats why i chose to have this discussion with you, I know you will respect my comments likewise i will respect your thoughts in return" or something like that. HONESTY and INTEGRITY is where its all at.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
Ok so as the question states is it ok to smudge the truth a little to get those that believe nothing is going on in order for them to pay attention. I of course dont mean the attention from everyone but maybe family and some people that you may concerned with.

For example, something so simple as the old saying that if you swallow gum it takes X amount of years to leave your system, how this got famous I dont know but it worked. Lets say you know someone that is hurting themselves with chemicals, or additives, etc,. and you know that in the long run this is going to do harm, so you tell them that this may in fact cause them harm along the way, and they dismiss it.


Do you A, bring it up nonchalantly and say here are the medical implications of the long term damage, here is a video about what it can do, and here is the research, which most likely they will ignore...

Or B, you tell them that this will cause something way more drastic then it will actually do, but may stop them from doing it? And just go right for the scare tactic that people seem to be so fond of, like if you do XYZ, you will glow like a lantern and it will cause Nibiru to seek out those that are glowing and destroy you in a wave of utter destruction!!

Yes of course that was a exaggeration, but you get the picture.

Peace, NRE.


First of all, NO.

Second of all, that example you used was flawed because you don't know for certain if the chemicals they're putting in their bodies actually will kill them. Or even harm them for that matter. Everyone's system is different. I've put so much crap in my body over the years it would've killed the average person. That assumption is based on the sheer number of people who get addicted to things like painkillers by the way. Not only am I alive and kicking but I can out-wit 90% of the people here. And this is a pretty big city.

Thirdly, you shouldn't try to be someone's savior. If they wake up they'll wake up. And they'll do it in their own time for their own reasons. You can help them along with facts because you care and if they want to listen, but lying and scaring them isn't the way to go.

One more thing. I can understand how frustrating it can be to be surrounded by people who you think aren't "awake" or seeing things the way you do. But that doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right. Trying to get people to "wake up" so they see things the way you do is the same as pushing your agenda down their throat. Most people I know now don't respond very kindly to that sort of thing.

My advice....live by example. If you are indeed "enlightened" or at the very least found a better way to live than most people, keep your mouth closed and do what you do. Most people aren't as blind or stupid as you think. If you're not a blowhard and telling everyone the "way it is", but you also come across as person who's got it together, they'll be drawn to you and try to get to know you. From there, just tell them what your viewpoints are and what works for you. If they can incorporate that in their life, great. Guess what.......you just "woke" them up.

Quit looking for the quick fix here. It doesn't work that way with this. Slow and steady. Ease it in.

And DON'T LIE!! Just my opinion of course.





posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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I wouldn't.You just make yourself less a reliable source of information and a liar.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by thesaint
Always the truth. This is from someone who uses interview and interrogation as a major part of my now civillian career. 100% credibility is whats needed to finally succeed in convincing someone of the truth. Once there is a hole in that credibility the whole shebang falls apart. Then trying to give it the "Ok i lied about a little piece but the rest is true" makes you look like a crazy dumbass. When i talk with people about subjects that may seem bizarre ie like the topics we see on ATS i always start with the "Now i know that your an intelligent person and thats why i chose to have this discussion with you, I know you will respect my comments likewise i will respect your thoughts in return" or something like that. HONESTY and INTEGRITY is where its all at.


Just checked your location, and I'll respect your take on it as long as you're not an Everton fan.

(I'm a Red, just messing, and doubt you'd have your text in red if you were a Blue anyway.
)
edit on 10-4-2012 by robhines because: added



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by thesaint
Always the truth. This is from someone who uses interview and interrogation as a major part of my now civillian career. 100% credibility is whats needed to finally succeed in convincing someone of the truth. Once there is a hole in that credibility the whole shebang falls apart. Then trying to give it the "Ok i lied about a little piece but the rest is true" makes you look like a crazy dumbass. When i talk with people about subjects that may seem bizarre ie like the topics we see on ATS i always start with the "Now i know that your an intelligent person and thats why i chose to have this discussion with you, I know you will respect my comments likewise i will respect your thoughts in return" or something like that. HONESTY and INTEGRITY is where its all at.


Well said pelone.

Well said





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