A question about Christians and forgiveness.

Can i ask what is the "rule" on this one with Christianity? Are you supposed to forgive someone no matter what?

I know this isn't always the case, and have seen it demonstrated countless times, but what are you "supposed" to do according to God's word?

Do you think it hypocritical if a Christian does not forgive someone, no matter what the sin?

I ask partly out of curiosity, and partly because i am interested in how a particular local event will be handled where i live. Basically someone commited an offence in my village recently, but they are usualy a nice guy. It was the drink that added to this guy causing a bit of trouble, but due to the fact that he is gay, i can already hear the knives out for him around the village.....and especially from church goers.

Our village is pretty churchy, and it seems that most of the influential people in the village and business owners go to the local church. However it is one of those places where they put on their Sunday best for church on Sunday, then are quite horrid the rest of the week. You know what villages are like, people talk, and if they don't know it, they make it up. It's like the damn Wicker Man here sometimes i swear!

In my eyes, what this guy did wasn't nice, but it's been dealt with by the court and thats that. He's apologized and paid his dues, but i wonder if he'll be cast out by people that are suposed to be the forgiving types? "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that.

Thanks,

CX.

Sorry to bother you with a basic question, but what exactly do you mean by "forgiveness?" If a man has a problem with gambling does forgiveness involve helping him get a job in a casino? If a man steals over and over does that mean not paying particular attention when he comes in your shop? Help me out a little.

reply to post by CX


21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.



Just sayin...

reply to post by charles1952


well, has the young man asked the community for forgiveness?
Is there a penitant attitude that precedes the act of forgiveness?
Or are you expecting people to just forget the offense regardless of the guy seeking to change?
Samson sinned, paid the price and went into bondage and was blinded. He sought forgiveness and was granted it by Yah, His God and was given vengeance upon his enemies that persecuted him.
But he paid the price for his sins being blinded and was penitant, thus forgiven.

Originally posted by CX
Can i ask what is the "rule" on this one with Christianity? Are you supposed to forgive someone no matter what?

I know this isn't always the case, and have seen it demonstrated countless times, but what are you "supposed" to do according to God's word?

Do you think it hypocritical if a Christian does not forgive someone, no matter what the sin?

To put it as simply as possible no matter how great the sin if you are asked for forgiveness and strive to live a Christlike life you are supposed to forgive the offender...

I've personally been wronged by someone in a horrific manner that I would not wish on anyone... this person came to me and confessed their sin and I forgave them immediately... there was no hesitation... they asked... and instantly were forgiven...

The problem was this person then began to exhibit behaviors that lead me to believe they may be committing the same sin once again... where as I should have (according to scripture) viewed their prior transgressions as "dead issues" I brought them up again to draw parallels to the "new" patterns that I saw developing... and was made out to be a demon for doing so...

Long story short... this alleged "Christian" won't forgive me for things I said and did that were directly caused by their actions... this person goes to "church" multiple times a week... plays the "victim" role extremely well... lies... cheats... steals... commits adultery... yet somehow I'm viewed as the bad guy at this point because I won't bring up their transgressions to defend myself against the wild accusations being hurled my way...

"Organized" Christianity is a sick joke as you've noted... it's nothing but a huge crowd of "do as I say not as I do'ers"...

Matthew 7:21-23 addresses how these people will be dealt with...

reply to post by CX


The man being gay is not for us to forgive, it is for Christ to forgive. We owe him no forgiveness for he has not wronged us by being homosexual. We are also not to hold grudges and forgiveness is a requirement, not an option. If we forgive we shall be forgiven, if we are merciful we shall have mercy.

However the man cannot be a christian until he puts away his sin and homosexuality. Christianity is about resisting your baser desires and resisting sin as opposed to how the rest of the world loves sinful acts and runs towards doing them. Therefore we are to shun those ways, but not shun the people. We were given a mandate by Christ to bring his light to the world, but if you shun the people you are supposed to be a witness to the light of Christ to, you do yourself no good nor them.

Always forgive, and always be merciful and let the light of the King shine through.

reply to post by manna2

Dear manna2,

Thanks for the good questions, I'm not sure I've got a good handle on them myself. As a matter of fact, this is the third try I've made at answering your questions. Am I allowed to be a member of ATS and say I just don't know? I've got a couple of ideas, though.

A just law should be enforced against offenders for their own good and society's benefit.

The offended people should check their own hearts. If they are looking for revenge or are full of hatred, then they've gone wrong.

If a man has trouble with a particular failing, it is wrong to put temptation in his way.

"Be as wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

There is just too much that I don't know, and I would fall back on my favorite answer of all time, "It depends."

With respect,
Charles1952

Matthew 7

Judging Others

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Ask, Seek, Knock

7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

There is a difference between judging someone by bias and sharing truth. The best way for a person to see themselves clearly is to allow your forgiveness and gentle nature to shine brightly by comparison to their perspective. All of us need this lesson. We are all fallen. Being the bigger person presents a positive witness rather than a negative judgment. Revealing bias builds ground for the other person to stand against you. Cling to truth and hold to a calm and assertive persona. Live the truth as a witness and your life reflection teaches the correct way. As stated above, if you have a similar degree of sin in your life, judging only makes you hypocritical.

Always ask the question: if it were you and your own sin known to the world, how would you want to be treated?

In the end, God judges for us. No need to jump the gun. Love instead. It's hard to do.

Originally posted by CX
Can i ask what is the "rule" on this one with Christianity? Are you supposed to forgive someone no matter what?

I know this isn't always the case, and have seen it demonstrated countless times, but what are you "supposed" to do according to God's word?

Love and understanding is the key to Christianity I think... male and female have different traits, compassion being one of the female traits.

we are supposed to teach each other where we go wrong but without a basis to determine this understanding it gets lost to time.

Gods word is the basis... teachers teach math though...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by CX

 

Christianity is about resisting your baser desires and resisting sin as opposed to how the rest of the world loves sinful acts and runs towards doing them. Therefore we are to shun those ways, but not shun the people. We were given a mandate by Christ to bring his light to the world, but if you shun the people you are supposed to be a witness to the light of Christ to, you do yourself no good nor them.

Always forgive, and always be merciful and let the light of the King shine through.

edit on 9-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Not if you listen to most churches anymore... they tell you idiocy like "God wants you to be happy" and "follow your heart" and "divorce is alright because times have changed"...

Then people wonder why I hate churches and most organized crime... errr... church...

Last I checked God wants you to be obedient... he didn't tell Job "screw it... go ahead and condemn Me... after all... if not for Me you wouldn't have any of these afflictions" or tell Hosea "man... screw your whore wife you'd be happier without her"...

I'm so sick of hearing "God wants me to be happy"... really... can someone please show me anywhere in any scripture where it says anything close to that...

reply to post by SwissMarked


the last I checked the one true God of all religions wants us to show understanding and to love one another more.

reply to post by manna2


I just needed to tell you...
I LOVE your current avatar!!

reply to post by SwissMarked


Pft. Whoever said God wants you to be happy is deluded. He never promised happiness in this life. In fact it is written it rains on the just and the unjust alike and even in Genesis he said that we would earn our food by the sweat of our brows, and brambles would grow to cut our feet and the earth be curse and all that manner of stuff. This is what happens when christians listen to sermons on sunday instead of reading their own bibles, they get that pastor's own opinions shoved in their faces to be taken as fact. That and there is an increasing trend of charlatans who have figured out that they can go to bible college to become a pastor just so they can make 40-60k a year but they are not actual believers but are just in it for the cash. My mother in law goes to a church and thats what that pastor did and they can't get rid of him so everyone is leaving that church and it's a dead church now. You can always tell who the fakers are, because Jesus said we would know the false prophets and false disciples by their works.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

Pft. Whoever said God wants you to be happy is deluded. He never promised happiness in this life. In fact it is written it rains on the just and the unjust alike and even in Genesis he said that we would earn our food by the sweat of our brows, and brambles would grow to cut our feet and the earth be curse and all that manner of stuff. This is what happens when christians listen to sermons on sunday instead of reading their own bibles, they get that pastor's own opinions shoved in their faces to be taken as fact. That and there is an increasing trend of charlatans who have figured out that they can go to bible college to become a pastor just so they can make 40-60k a year but they are not actual believers but are just in it for the cash. My mother in law goes to a church and thats what that pastor did and they can't get rid of him so everyone is leaving that church and it's a dead church now. You can always tell who the fakers are, because Jesus said we would know the false prophets and false disciples by their works.

Amen... Halleluiah... and thank God there are others out there that see exactly what is going on...

How someone can stand in front of a group of people and cry "church poverty" with gold chains and diamond encrusted crosses hanging from their necks... gold rings on every finger and a Mercedes SUV parked in the "pastor spot" telling everyone that THEY must give up their worldly possessions to be more Christ like and no one sees the hypocrisy is beyond me...

If "the church" is in "need" why not give up your $80k car... your $800k house... and part if not all of your salary "Pastor Charlatan"...

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

the last I checked the one true God of all religions wants us to show understanding and to love one another more.

That's part of the message I get from reading the books... but loving the sinner and loving the sin are two different things...

Unfortunately more and more people are looking to the church as a means to justify what they're doing in lieu of reading the scripture themselves and coming to the conclusion that their unjust actions aren't serving Christ but instead causing them to walk down a road that was "paved with the best of intentions"...

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Rofl. Dude, this made me think of secular folk because this is exactly what happens. Then they take a verse out of the bible and twist it to their own ends whoring for stars.

Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

You take the time to make a great post with all types of evidence and then you get a driveby trolling:

"Cool story brah, "

reply to post by SwissMarked

Unfortunately more and more people are looking to the church as a means to justify what they're doing in lieu of reading the scripture themselves and coming to the conclusion that their unjust actions aren't serving Christ but instead causing them to walk down a road that was "paved with the best of intentions"...

A prime example of this is young people, teenagers and young adults and even older adults who think that they can have unmarried sex because their saved, or commit adultery even despite that Christ preached against sexual immorality and the Council of Jerusalem defined it. This is going to get a whole lot worse before the end. This is also why i believe we're in the falling away, and the time of sorrows before the trib begins.

reply to post by SwissMarked


I hear ya one that... but my sister takes her kids to church and they also have like 3 days in the church school after their regular public school.

for adults that is a different matter and I guess eventually the preacher may get thru to them planting seed from those scriptures in their thoughts.

the one my sister frequents carries the sign of the fish, they have a cross and teach alot about Jesus the times I have went with them. It's a community church and very large...

I have nothing against churches with Jesus in them... my sisters church seems to run itself via all the members and rotating speakers. (weekly)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I think after you are married you should not commit adultery... but playing the field here where I grew up (America) is the quest for true love and how it should be, free for each individual to choose and find this spiritual union.

I slam's women and Jewish women are subject to a different kind of control where the family decides, which seems antiquated and dated considering.

reply to post by CX

Do you think it hypocritical if a Christian does not forgive someone, no matter what the sin?

Of course it is, how can we accept God's forgiveness through Christ for everything we have done, yet hold unforgiveness against another person?

That's the epitome of hypocrisy. And it has health ramifications to harbor unforgiveness and bitterness. It's drinking poison hoping the other person gets sick and dies.