"Just because one cop is bad, it doesn’t mean they all are"

reply to post by IgnorantSpecies


all police have the same profiling skills, and they all look down to, talk down to, and treat you like you are less than human.
even a "good cop" (lol) would go against his morals and beliefs for the brotherhood of the badge.
if the government goes even more nuts, who do you think will be the first to enforce their laws?
their job is not to protect us, and they carry guns for themselves, not to help us.
all are corrupt and break all the laws themselves.
does anyone think that the police think, or say any different about us?
they need people to break the law, thats how they make money, so they use entrapment, trickery, fear tactics, or just plain planting skills to get you in trouble.
police are not there to prevent crime, they are to handle the situation after crime.
not to mention their serious lack of law knowledge, and they can legally lie, and have no respect for how they get paid.
their existence is unconstitutional.

Originally posted by VforVendettea
Quit spewing he 'one bad apple' plea.
Would you buy a chain with a bad linK? If one is bad they all are.
End of argument.

HERE HERE!!!!
good point

Originally posted by jlv70
The thing that separates the police from the average citizen is the fact they're entrusted with power and authority that we,as civilians don't have.

Knowing that power can have a corrupting influence the police should expect and understand that they're held to a higher level of scrutiny, which they should be.

It is always healthy and correct for power to be constrained by checks and balances.

Here's an interesting chart from 2010 showing the crime rate comparisons between law enforcement and the general public.




www.injusticeeverywhere.com...

edit on 7-4-2012 by jlv70 because: (no reason given)

wow
just wow.
where should law enforcement be on that graph?
zero.

reply to post by IgnorantSpecies

Typical consequence of a nation which embraces endless wars, torture, citizen assassinations, suspension of habeas corpus, a militarized police force and an ever increasing police state.

Until there are some major reworkings to the laws, being a police officer is always going to be a dangerous job and it will always produce paranoia, poor judgement and tragedy. You've got to look at the big picture to see what needs fixing and in reality it is the judicial system.

'You're only as strong as your weakest link'.

Originally posted by VforVendettea
Quit spewing he 'one bad apple' plea.
Would you buy a chain with a bad linK? If one is bad they all are.
End of argument.

Kind of like all black people are thieves, all Hispanics are illegal aliens, all gays are perverts, all Muslims are terrorists...I could go on but I've already shown how ignorant you are. No need to rub it in.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by VforVendettea
Quit spewing he 'one bad apple' plea.
Would you buy a chain with a bad linK? If one is bad they all are.
End of argument.

Kind of like all black people are thieves, all Hispanics are illegal aliens, all gays are perverts, all Muslims are terrorists...I could go on but I've already shown how ignorant you are. No need to rub it in.

/TOA

Good job Old American... from one to another... Star for you

I do not believe the majority of police use excessive force or are brutal, inhuman machines. I know, for a fact, that police go through EXTENSIVE training in order to avoid excessive force and brutality. They are trained to protect themselves, and they are trained to peacefully (when possible) defuse negative situations.

As for the videos, videos can be edited to make things appear different than they really are (take all of the ufo videos for example). In order to create fear and anger.

My husband is a police officer. He has been spit on, someone let their dog loose on him, he has been puked on, he has seen self inflicted gunshot wounds to the head. He has seen people murdered over a game of pool. He has performed CPR on a dead infant. He said the childs mother was begging him to save her child. He has seen neglected, abused and murdered children. He had to have tetanus shots after a particularly strange encounter with a man and barbed wire. People deficate on themselves in the back of his car. And yes, I know that he signed up for this on his own and no one made him choose this profession. He wants to HELP people. He wants to PROTECT the innocent.

Can a video prepare you for real life? Can a self defense class teach you what it is really like when someone is coming at you with a gun? Every single run they make, could be their last. The simplest traffic stop, could turn deadly.

I think every citizen in this country should have to ride with a police officer for a least one day. Then they would see what they really have to deal with. The average run, isn't usually that average.

I know that there are some police officers who obviously chose the wrong profession. There are some "bad" police officers. There are also some bad doctors, teachers, lawyers, clergymen, bankers, ..........in every profession there are bad people. There are people in every profession who should not be in that profession.

Originally posted by newsoul

I know that there are some police officers who obviously chose the wrong profession. There are some "bad" police officers. There are also some bad doctors, teachers, lawyers, clergymen, bankers, ..........in every profession there are bad people. There are people in every profession who should not be in that profession.

Well that's true. The difference is most of those can't really ruin your life or kill you the way a bad police officer can. That's the difference, you encounter a bad mechanic and you walk away because your car no longer runs and you are poorer. You may not be able to walk away from a bad cop because - well- you may not be able to walk.

I believe you that most cops *are* good. But some are not.. Take this guy..



Anthony Abbate a big fat slob of a guy who was a Chicago cop. He got 2 years probation for that. What do you think a big fat slob of a guy that wasn't a cop would get?

It took a bit of doing for him to even get that. He was protected by other cops and the code of silence. Its years but finally enough evidence was brought to light that Judge: Police 'Code of Silence' in bar beating

The federal judge's ruling Thursday in Chicago gives credence to what is known as "the blue curtain," an understanding between police officers that they should cover for each other unconditionally and that testimony against a fellow cop amounts to betrayal of their bond. It is the underbelly of a police subculture that is rarely exposed to the light of day.

In the ruling, Judge St. Eve cites numerous pieces of evidence that a code of silence exists within the Chicago Police Department; including Abbate's phone calls to other officers and detectives after the incident to enlist their help in covering up his misconduct.

According to the judge, "there is evidence in the record that Abbate's conduct triggered the code of silence...a reasonable jury could infer that these numerous telephone calls...constituted an effort to protect Abbate from police brutality allegations or to cover-up Abbate's misconduct."

You can actually Read the Judge's Ruling

Abbate summed up his reason for doing that himself..

While punching and kicking the tiny bartender who had refused his drink order, Officer Abbate said something which characterized the blue curtain he would later try to pull over his misdeed. Abbate said, "Nobody tells me what to do."

So how does someone go from being a good honest cop to being a scumbag like Abbate or covering for a someone like that?

Abbate - yeah, he's a bad apple. What he did is inexcusable. You know what else is inexcusable? Him getting probation because he's a cop and other cops covering for him.

reply to post by IgnorantSpecies


Well my best friend is a cop in NY. I talk to him often and I hear a lot of stories that give me an insight into the things they have to deal with. I have come to the conclusion that they do what they can with what they got. The job gets very stressful and they have their own personal problems to deal with as well.

If they were not the way they are now a days the people would tear themselves up. There are those that are really short fused, others that are too mellow and don't give a crap really. It is like anything else, life dictates how they respond. If you are a cop in ghetto area and come Friday everyone decides to go ape with welfare checks and 40's in hand, you go a little nuts as a cop in their area.

If you work a nice neighborhood where people appreciate your presence there, you are less tense and not nearly as paranoid that the people you are trying to serve are actually thinking of a way to hurt or kill you.

My friend has had people try and grab his gun and kill him just because he was trying to do his job and got surrounded by a group of people hell bent on making their neighborhood into their little private hell hole. What should he do after that incident for example. Act all nice to them in hopes that they mellow out, or strong arm them and demand respect so he can do his job well and go home everyday.

This friend of mine has also had good experiences in that same neighborhood, but he can't count on that for the simple fact that that place might kill him one day.

It is all case specific. If you are in a place like NY, then expect a military like presence in your life. If you live in the country or a small city then the police should act accordingly. If they are to lax in a bad area then that's bad. If they are too aggressive in a relaxed area then that is bad too. Balance is difficult in anything but it is really what we are asking for.

We should give them a break and be honest good people, they will see that and act accordingly.

reply to post by Frogs


I agree with most of your post. I acknowledge that some are indeed "bad". I don't think that is a quantifier for saying that they are all bad and they all cover for each other and one bad apple spoils the bunch.

If you have a bad physician or a bad surgeon, you might not walk away from that either. There really are a lot of people that are bad at what they do, and a lot of them are supposed to contribute to the well being of society.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


When my husband first started, he worked in a high drug area. It was madness. The people automatically saw an enemy in their neighborhood and confrontation was the only thing on their mind. People would actually confront him for being there. Now, if I want to get on his nerves, I call him Cracker I kid, I kid.

It's the system man, too many laws, too many regulations, too much power, power corrupts every time. The power priveliged will always eventually view the unpriveliged with some degree of contempt. That's the problem when I'm in a war zone, it happens to me too when I'm deployed. It happens to the cops here. Over there we're at war, like it or not. Here in our own homes it is inexcusable. Thing about many Americans is we really don't need cops, we have guns, what do you need a cop for if you've got a gun?

Make laws that really favor law abiding citizens and then get off our backs and let us police our own streets. When a neighborhood patrol gets out of hand then call in the cops. I know, I know, Trayvon Martin was killed by a neighborhood patrol man, whatever.

"Just because one cop is bad, it doesn’t mean they all are"


lol, tell those people to try and file a complaint against any cop..

you find out the boys in blue are the biggest gang on the planet..

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by Frogs

 

I agree with most of your post. I acknowledge that some are indeed "bad". I don't think that is a quantifier for saying that they are all bad and they all cover for each other and one bad apple spoils the bunch.

Well of course not. Cops have a very rough job and most are just regular folks trying to do good in a very tough job.

Not all are bad and one bad apple need not spoil the whole bunch. The "if" in there is if the other apples recognize the bad one and work to get it out of the barrel instead of closing ranks around it to keep it in the barrel.

No, not all cops do this. But its one thing that I'll admit has always confused me. Why an otherwise good person would cover for someone like Abbate is just beyond me. Its stuff like the Abbate case and the protection of him by other officers that contributes to the "cops are bad" mentality.

If, instead of protecting him the officers that did would have said, "Get this low life off the force, he is a disgrace to the badge." we'd see a lot less negative attitude towards police. Some cops do this... more should IMO.

reply to post by XxCanexX

Of course not, we can't even catch all the bad civilians

Bit of an understatement.

You guys catch approximately 25% of the criminals that you are tasked with finding.
ETA:
Try being an auto mechanic that only fixes one fourth of the cars that he works on, or a dentist that is successful on only half of the root canals that he does.

Originally posted by XxCanexX
Very odd. I have worked in Law Enforcement for 12 years and have never seen fellow officers egging others on to commit police brutality like you all speak of. I can't imagine that I just work for a really good department, and for the record very few other officers are going to cover for another that goes completely overboard and injures or kills somebody that they did not need to. Does it happen? of course it does. Maybe it depends on the city and the department but like I said I work for a very large department and most of the things you guys speak of don't happen here.

It is all a matter of perspective. Or, as the old saying goes, "Where you stand, is where you sit."

What I mean is that you may think what is being done in your department is just fine. You only tune up the "bad" guys right? So, from your perspective things are just fine. Now, from the perspective of the guy standing on his driveway with a video camera who is taping someone getting a ticket across the street, who then gets his rear end tore up by a rabid cop; I think his opinion of the encounter, from his perspective, is a bit different.

And I am sure you are right, there are no cops in the locker room challenging one another to see who can beat up the most innocent civilians that day. However, I am quite certain that back in the locker room after a day on the beat, or at a bar later, or out having a smoke, that these same cops will regale each other with stories of bravado wherein they tuned up one dude or another. The other cops will all congratulate the one who did the tuning. This then becomes self-feeding. The one who was congratulated wants to be congratulated again; those that congratulated him want to be congratulated themselves. In the end, they are all looking for any excuse to tune someone up so they can go back to the department locker room and be the guy with the best story.

As a former LEO, who refused to tune people up and arrest people for no good reason and was "asked" to find other work, and the brother of another LEO I can guarantee this is how it goes.

My partner was a great dude. I enjoyed most of the time I spent with him. We were pretty decent friends. However, he was a big guy and was always on the lookout for some way to express his authori-tah. If he saw something that was even a hint of a possible infraction he would act as if it was Dillinger himself "breaking" the law. He would intimidate and harass the poor person and if they ever even thought of saying anything back he would threaten them with jail. It was ridiculous.

I, on the other hand, let the little stuff slide. A little jay-walking here or there never hurt anyone. A drunk on a saturday night walking around outside some bars being a little obnoxious may need a little talking to, that is it. They are already scared #-less once they see an LEO coming towards them because people are AFRAID of cops these days. Not in a good way either and not because they are doing something wrong; but because cops are punks and you never know when they are going to kick your ass. So, I just talk to the dude and his buddies get him and they grab a cab and go home. That's it. They go home, they are happy they didn't get the crap kicked out of them and tossed in jail, they will be more judicious next time. THAT is how you do it.

Unfortunately, I would imagine either you, or many in your dept, would have thrown him to the ground while saying, "Stop Resisting!" all the while and then booked him for "resisting" arrest.

"Resisting" arrest. Now that one cracks me up. You know, as well as I, that you have to practice all your takedown moves on one another. Let me ask you; did they feel good to you? I imagine not. See, when you crank someones wrist over then twist their arm and jam it up behind their back like you are trying to make them scratch their ear from that position, it hurts. Because it hurts they will attempt to pull their arm back slightly to stop the pain of the dislocation in their shoulder and the stretched tendons. This is what is considered "resisting" by most LEOs today. Keep in mind that this is done with a knee in your back or on the back of your neck while you lay on pavement, in most cases. It is a whole lot of uncomfortable. If someone was an actual threat I have no problem with this, but there is no need for this in 90% of the cases.

So, I left "the force" some time ago. Before you even joined if you have only been in 12 years. I couldn't surround myself with the masochistic, narcissistic, psychopathic personalities any longer.

Oh, and don't get me started on the double standards...

Originally posted by newsoul

I know that there are some police officers who obviously chose the wrong profession. There are some "bad" police officers. There are also some bad doctors, teachers, lawyers, clergymen, bankers, ..........in every profession there are bad people. There are people in every profession who should not be in that profession.

Interesting point. It almost makes sense. Except, police officers are working for the public in the public trust. They hold the balance of life/death in their hands. We, the people, accept that they have to put up with a lot and give a lot of leeway when it comes to apprehending someone who may be a criminal. Unfortunately, this public trust has been abused; taken for granted by those to whom we give that trust. People do not trust police officers anymore, they are afraid of them. This is not because the people are bad or doing things wrong, it is because the officers have mistreated those they are there to protect for so long that what was once allowed by the people, because they trusted the officers, is now demanded by the officers because it is their job and it is "dangerous". I don't put dangerous in quotes because it isn't dangerous, I do that because they use the danger as an excuse to abuse.

While I can appreciate what your husband has been through, I was an LEO some time ago, the crap he has to put up with is no excuse to abuse even on civilian. Not even one.

So, it is not fair, equal or right to attempt to put cops on par with other "professions". It is not the same thing, not even close.

All I see is a lot of people ignoring the facts
Police brutality rates are growing
and we are doing nothing about it.
sooner or later we are going to need do something.

As I stated in my OP we know enough about human psychology to know that corruption breeds corruption.
Say what you will in defense
but you cant change simple observable human behavior.