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"Just because one cop is bad, it doesn’t mean they all are"

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posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by randomtangentsrme
 


Because if he refuses to obey a lawful order to leave a scene that he is not a part of, only to stay there and incite more problems he can and will be physically removed from the area. No need for courts or lawyers when it comes to that. Telling a person to leave a scene that they are not a part of is a completely lawful order from an officer. If they are inciting more problems thereby making the situation unsafe for the officer or other civilians then they most certainly can be ordered to leave, again no need for courts or lawyers in that sense. Now if he refuses to leave and then physically tries to stay or defeat an officers attempt to ragain control of the situation he again can be detained, and depending on what kind of resisting he did he may be charged with a crime.

There is nothing in the scenario I gave you earlier that would result in any kind of action taken against the officer. He would have been well within his right to do everything I wrote in that situation. It happens on a daily basis and officers do not end up in court for that. A civilian can not just physically disobey A LAWFUL(very key word) order from an officer.

The reason I caps LAWFUL is because alot of people have a misconception of that word. In the above scenario I gave, the officer gave a LAWFUL order due to the fact that the officer was worried for his own safety and the safety of others. The problems comes when the bystander physically refuses said LAWFUL order. Now had the bystander just been standing 50 feet away not saying a word and the officer ordered him to leave then you would be correct as that would be an UNLAWFUL order that the officer had no right in giving, but that was not the case in the above scenario.




posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by PsykoOps
Yes that is a common defense. However how often do you see cops enforcing the very same rules and laws onto their colleagues than they do for the general public? Thing is if you're standing behind the blue line and not stopping the ones who are "bad cops" you're just as "bad". Hence 99.9% are bad, we can round that up to all.


I see it all the time. I have arrested a colleague for domestic violence. Can we catch all the bad cops? Of course not, we can't even catch all the bad civilians. Bad cops are punished more than you might like to think.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by XxCanexX
reply to post by randomtangentsrme
 


Because if he refuses to obey a lawful order to leave a scene that he is not a part of, only to stay there and incite more problems he can and will be physically removed from the area. No need for courts or lawyers when it comes to that. Telling a person to leave a scene that they are not a part of is a completely lawful order from an officer. If they are inciting more problems thereby making the situation unsafe for the officer or other civilians then they most certainly can be ordered to leave, again no need for courts or lawyers in that sense. Now if he refuses to leave and then physically tries to stay or defeat an officers attempt to ragain control of the situation he again can be detained, and depending on what kind of resisting he did he may be charged with a crime.

There is nothing in the scenario I gave you earlier that would result in any kind of action taken against the officer. He would have been well within his right to do everything I wrote in that situation. It happens on a daily basis and officers do not end up in court for that. A civilian can not just physically disobey A LAWFUL(very key word) order from an officer.

The reason I caps LAWFUL is because alot of people have a misconception of that word. In the above scenario I gave, the officer gave a LAWFUL order due to the fact that the officer was worried for his own safety and the safety of others. The problems comes when the bystander physically refuses said LAWFUL order. Now had the bystander just been standing 50 feet away not saying a word and the officer ordered him to leave then you would be correct as that would be an UNLAWFUL order that the officer had no right in giving, but that was not the case in the above scenario.


If the individual is creating a "problem" sure.
"Telling a person to leave a scene that they are not a part of is a completely lawful order from an officer." Bovine excrement.
I have been asked by FD for a house fire, and PD due to a shooting, to be traffic control. You folk cannot have it both ways.
What constitutes unsafe? Give me Fed guidelines as it's different state to state.
The fact an individual was detained (i.e. seizure) would defiantly be grounds for a suite, I have confirmation from both family (related to me) and friends who are lawyers. Sadly I trust lawyers to know the law more than police. Wish I knew this back at 19 when a sheriff asked about my juvenile record (which is pristine).

Physically no we can not. Verbally, certainly, with high success and cost to the PD. At least so I have seen.
No disrespect, I have a ton of friends in the Local PD, and Sheriff dept. I respect what you guys do most of the time- to the point of 95%.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by randomtangentsrme
 


That was why I gave the example of somebody physically refusing to do something as it pertained to police brutality. the example I was trying to give was what one might view as police brutality when in that scenario it wasn't. I agree with what you guys have said about illegal seizures, but in my scenario that would not have been a case of such due to the subject physically refusing a lawful order. Like I said if the bystander was just standing there causing no problem then an officer has no right to ask him to leave or do anything to or against him.

In terms of what is safe and what is unsafe. It's usually pretty clear. If as an officer you feel like your person might be in danger or another might be in danger you have to act accordingly. At the end of the day 1) we want to go home alive and 2) we must protect people from injury and or death. Now do some officers have a wide scope of what might be unsafe? I'm sure they do, if one has not been in that many situations that are generally unsafe then you might not have a good grasp of what is and isn't unsafe. I mean let's be honest, alot of people don't like police showing up, so alot of situations can become unsafe in a hurry if you don't maintain control. I didn't think people would jump all over the whole illegal seizure aspect of the scenario I depicted, but I think if you sit back and look at that scenario objectively you can see that an officer acting in that capacity is justified to do what he did.

Feel like I'm getting off topic here, as this thread was originally about police brutality and we kind of got side tracked with the another issue, sorry.

ETA: You are correct that guidelines are different state to state. They are actually different from Dept to Dept in most cases. I'm sure it would be easier for people to understand police procedure if it was all uniform, but sadly not all of it is.
edit on 7-4-2012 by XxCanexX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by XxCanexX
 


Cheers. I'll take the blame. Glad to know there are folks out there interested in upholding the laws.
Just don't get carried away



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by randomtangentsrme
 


I hate to use the qoute the OP used, but it is correct. We aren't all bad. Thank you for respecting the job that we have to do. So many people I come into contact with now a days seem to hate everything about us. Makes the job much more difficult.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:17 AM
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One bad apple in a barrel of apples will rot the all the apples in the barrel....




posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by IgnorantSpecies
 


I used to have the opinion that not all should be tarnished by the actions of a minority too, and it probably is true. But it doesn't seem that this is the sensible view to have.

It might be true that not all lions would attack and eat me, but I have seen enough evidence to suggest that in all probability, if the lion is hungry and it can eat me, it will.
Therefore, while it might be true that not all police are corrupt and abusive psychopaths, evidence leads me to believe that many are, and if they don't like me they will abuse me, because they have that ability.

Here in the UK we've had plenty of instances of police brutality and corruption, with them infiltrating and attacking peaceful protest groups, encouraging violence to justify arrest, accepting bribes from Murdoch and his cronies, colluding with politicians, caught abusing prisoners, taped being racist, filmed attacking disabled students...

Yeah, I find it real hard to believe that they are not all protecting each other. And if that is the case then they are all corrupt and guilty.

This is the way I see it - Antony Bologne sprayed mace at girls in the street in NY, for no reason at all. He and other senior officers were seen beating and dragging people for no reason at all, and it was all on film. All of the officers there on that day had a RESPONSIBILITY to arrest their senior officer or AT THE VERY LEAST make a moral objection.

None of them did. In that instance all of those who witnessed what was happening on that day are guilty of protecting a criminal. The same goes for the protest in Oakland too, where officers witnessed a fellow officer aim a "flash bang" grenade into a crowd treating an injured protester.

He was in critical condition - and STILL not one of those officers came forward, out of hundreds!

That shows me all I need to know about the mentality of all Police. It's a gang, a club, and they'll look after each other even when their members are guilty of crimes against the people who pay their wages.

It's their job to maintain trust, not my job to willingly give it without reason. I cannot be forced to trust a person, I will make that judgment based on my perception. Right now my perception is that all policing in the UK and USA is corrupt from the top down.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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Saying all cops are not bad is akin to saying that not all muslims are bad. I challenge every self proclaimed GOOD COP to put their money where their mouth is then and insist that their union take a hard line stance against those who go astray from the oath they took. Zero tolerance, I want to hear their union leaders publicly declare that any officer who violates their sworn oath to uphold The Constitution and to be the defenders of the citizens will be terminated and never be allowed back into law enforcement again, and not just in the district they are currently in.. I want to see these so called good cops shun those who break their oath, and be prepared to go on strike if the bad apples are not forever removed from duty.
Those who believe there are more good cops than bad have a limited definition of what defines a bad cop. How about having the officers and their union insisting that citizens be allowed to film the police anytime, any place..instead of pushing for legislation making it a crime to do so.
I got news for you good cops and their fanbois
If you don't wear your seat belt like the rest of us are compelled to do, your a bad cop
If you don't place your partner under arrest when he over steps his authority.....your a bad cop
If you make a turn on red during a non emergency..... your a bad cop
Do I need to go on????
Next time you call yourself a good cop, be honest with yourself. If your union buddies are more important to you than the oath you took, then the only thing good about you .......is nothing
If citizens respecting your authority is more important to you than the words of The Constitution.. you are not a good cop
More good cops than bad my ass, there is just different degrees of bad cops..... they are all good cops when it suits them



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by XxCanexX
 


Hi cane as you are a policeman I would like to ask you a few questions and give some opinions if that's possible. By all means you have no need to answer any of it but I would be interested to hear what you have to say.

Basically I think there are different opinions as to what a policeman's role should be. As it stand right now I see the police as upholding the rules set out by the government. Now should this be the case? Should the government be allowed to make up rules as they go? Do the government even adhere to their own rules? If not should they be able to make them? I would say no!

Now no-one is going to argue that theft is okay right? No-one is going to argue that the initiation of violence is okay right? These things are common sense or common law. It is the same wherever you go.

I could respect a policeman who defends people! Who wouldn't? I can respect a policeman who stands up for the rights of the individual, who wouldn't? I can not respect a policeman that upholds immoral rules set out by the government! of which there are many! And upholding these rules the policeman often violates the rights of the individual and in those violations they are breaking common laws!

I can't talk about what I want to talk about here with you, but I will lay down some examples which will make it clear as to what I'm talking about.

1: If the government made alcohol illegal, would you kick in someones door for possessing some? Would you kidnap them and lock them in a cell? Would you steal their property? If you did that today thats what you would be doing right? But if the government waves it's magic wand then these crimes are justified?

2: If the government made cigarettes illegal, would you do as above?

3: How about fatty foods or sugar?

These things cause considerable harm to themselves and burdens the health care system (which is why other substances are illegal right?). Basically should one group of people be able to tell another group of people how they should treat their own body? Should the government be protecting people from themselves?

I put it to you that you would break common laws because the government told you to! After all the police always use the excuse that they are just doing their job! And they do not make the rules! This is such a cop out! What about morals? What about doing what is right?

Also it was said that if a policeman killed someone unlawfully or something just as bad they would be arrested all the same. But what about small stuff? What about speeding when not on call? What about breaking parking violations while not on call? What about lying to people? Why should they get away with this type of behavior? Shouldn't they be held up to even more scrutiny than the average joe? Just as politicians should be.

I'm sorry but it is fact that when you are with the police you can bend the rules! But if the average joe tries it they will be punished quick time! This is not acceptable to me.

I do not hate you! I hate what you do! I hate that you will smash peoples individual rights and even break common laws (way more serious) just to appease our "rulers"! Just because you are told to! I do realize that if you didn't you would be out of a job! But I'm sorry that is not good enough for me!



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by eazyriderl_l
 


Birds of a feather flock together...yeah my grandpa used to say that to me all the time when I was younger. Talking about my friends, if they get in trouble I'm basically going to do the same thing he claimed which he wasn't actually wrong about it lol.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by IgnorantSpecies
 





It seems everyday there is a new shocking video of police brutality, with each video I see a bit of the strength and freedom of the people being taken away.

It's been going on forever. It's just now we see it because we have the power of youtube and everyone has cell phones so they can record whatever they want. Nothing has changed...cops are still nothing but a bunch of thugs with a licenses to kill.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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I know lots of good cops and only know a few bad ones. Even the good cops don't really like the bad ones because they aren't out there to protect and help the people. Trust and respect your local officers but don't count on them being there at all times to protect you. They are only human. They have a job is complicated and depressing. They catch someone that has robbed people and bring them to jail. They post bond and are released that day and they go back to their criminal ways. If criminals don't learn after two times they should be sent to prison at hard labor to learn to respect those who have worked hard to get what they have acquired.

What happened to the ethnic code of criminals. Only steal from those who have gained by immoral ways. Steal from those who have gained from deceiving others. What happened to Robin Hood, has he lost his way and targeted the honest people?



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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I've experienced both really good police officers and really bad cops through my life in equal amounts. My friends and family thought I was full of bologna when years ago I would tell them about being harrassed by a local policeman. They thought either I had to be doing something wrong, or that I was being paranoid. That WAS until different ones of them started experiencing the same sort of thing. I think that until you experience police harrassment for yourself it is kind of hard to believe.

It is understandable that a good police officer might not believe it happens very much because they are not in a position to experience it theirself. I mean really, what bad cop in his halfway sane mind is stupid enough to harrass another cop or the good cop's family and friends?

It took calling on an old neighbor who just happened to be city municipal court judge at the time to get the bad cop to stop harrassing me and my husband. Most people are not fortunate enough to have that kind of connection, therefore the harrassment continues with no end in sight.

I'm not saying there aren't a lot of really good police officers out there; I know there are, and am happy to have them! However the ones that abuse their power give a bad reputation to all. And just as there are getting to be more and more bad people in this world there are getting to be more and more bad cops also.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by XxCanexX
 


No...what we call brutal is the video on this site of a cop tazing a skinny little chick in the back causing her to violrntly hit head on the ground and become comatose...because she ran from him.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by type0civ
 

If you run from the law you are exhibiting a trait of the guilty. That's contained under the resisting arrest category. Police are allowed at that time to use adequate force to apprehend a person who is running or fleeing. Nothing makes you look more guilty than running from a law enforcement officer. If I was investigating a crime and someone there started to run, I would quickly scan the area and identify possible accomplices first then pursue the person, charging them with fleeing an eluding. Sometimes the action of running makes a person a suspect even though they aren't involved in a crime. Usually though, that person is just guilty of a previous crime that is not related.

If this girl is stupid enough to run from the police, she should expect to have consequences from her actions. Why didn't someone explain this to her previously, like her parents or relatives?

edit on 7-4-2012 by rickymouse because: add



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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edit on 7-4-2012 by TorqueyThePig because: Forget it not going to get involved in a cop bashing thread.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by XxCanexX
reply to post by randomtangentsrme
 


I hate to use the qoute the OP used, but it is correct. We aren't all bad. Thank you for respecting the job that we have to do. So many people I come into contact with now a days seem to hate everything about us. Makes the job much more difficult.


Cane... do not be mislead or overwhelmed by the few who speak loudly as most respect the law, your job of enforcing the law, and you who do it. Most of us have your back.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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It's easy to focus on the negatives but there are good cops around. I am friends with a male cop who is very nice to me, nice to everyone who he approaches or approaches him, does his job well. The problem is that, and the reality is, that the police-force and all likeminded professions, like firefighters, the military, etc. attract sociopaths. Attracts violent individuals. Attracts people who are extremely rigid, and these people are TRAINED to be less sensitive and are TRAINED to be borderline cold-hearted. These are the facts. People who take these professions are trained to not allow emotions affect their ability to do their job because of the realities that a lot of what they see is ugly. The problem is that this isn't human. This isn't how humans are supposed to operate. Humans have emotions. Humans have feelings. Humans are not machines, but this is how cops are expected to operate. And we see the results of that training. We see the results of the stresses cops have to deal with. Cops are statistically DRAMATICALLY more likely to engage in spousal abuse, have PSTD, engage in drug use. These people are damaged in many severe ways. So instead of solely blaming them, we also need to look into why cops behave as inhumane as so many do. And we need to listen and lend a helping hand. So many cops feel unappreciated and uncared for, which is where the resentment towards society kicks in. I've seen on TV how they literally starting crying thinking about it. So it's a two-way street.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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*yawn*. Another cop bashing thread? Really? I think someone earlier summed it up quite well when he said the ones hitching about cops are the ones who run afoul of them. Except for my teens, when I was a bad seed, I have never had a bad experience with a cop. The bad experiences I deserved. You probably did too.



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