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What is the point of Christianity?

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posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Bare what? Are you hitting on me bro?


heh... should have said beer with me eh



2. We could play the Adam and Eve didn't sin/exist game all day, the context was the bible accounts about God from the OT so lets stay within that context. You could say so and so didn't sin/exist with everything.. We've already assumed the Bible is truth for the sake or argumentation, so therefore you can't remove yourself arbitrarily from that assumption we've taken for the sake of argumentation when you're in a tight spot.


You already assumed the bible is truth... i've never admitted to such assumptions... There is truth within the bible... but as a single book i can not assume all of it is true... You can't corner me with paper walls then complain when one rips...


You cannot assume the Biblical accounts of God being evil are 100% true when you want to make a point, and assume the verses are 100% wrong when your point was removed.


I also didn't say biblical accounts make God out to be 100% evil either...


But fine, next person, why didn't Cain get struck down dead when He killed Abel? Se whee I am going with this yet? Play fair friend. I understand your problem, but it's your problem. Still love ya friend.


Likely because God doesn't work that way.... at least the true God who you are assuming "inspired" all of this book... You seem to think i have a problem... but there is no problem... And speaking of Cain and Abel... IN gen 4 you can see "God" hinting at Karmic law...

15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

"God" set a mark on Cane so that others would kill him... but also said "whoever Kills him" vengeance shall be taken sevenfold... thats Karma baby...



I'm not a Gnostic in any way shape or form. Jesus was a real person who did leave footprints in the sands on the Sea of Galilee when He was walking it's shores.


Like christian scripture you have to take their writings with a grain of salt... Gnostics believed we are Body and soul... just like christians... They say he had no footprints... You say he walked on water... Really is there much of a difference? I think not....


You also said God isn't love, and I said that avatar I have is the greatest love letter in the history of mankind, and Isaiah 52:7/53 shows that as best as any verse in the Bible And lastly you cannot escape prophecy if you open that book we call a Bible, the entire thing is prophetic, it ALL POINTS TO HIM!!!!


I also didn't say that either... Love is an aspect of God... the strongest emotional force in the universe... but he is not Just love... I also disagree the whole book points to him... though i won't deny that "some" of it does...


The Father pronounced Him guilty for us, so He could pronounce us innocent because of Him. The Father knew the grave couldn't ever hold His Son, it was just a flesh wound for Him. Play fair, you may be just being stubborn from the booze, I'll wait.


Guilty of what... being innocent?

I always play fair, i just don't assume... I was being stuburn because thats who i am... born like that...


Look up Aquarious... You'll understand me a little more...


I'm going to the OT, and teaching you about Jesus like the apostles would have, the NT didn't exist when they were sharing Him.


The point being... we were discussing the issue that the OT God is not the same as the one Jesus spoke of... Then you quoted verse from the NT to show the OT God was the same...



You also aren't the only one being taught the real Jesus here remember, you don't HAVE to answer my questions as i've already said. Others will take that challenge.


You're not showing me anything i don't already know my friend... but im letting you walk this little journey for your audience...

I already know the answer to this problem... Im just hopeing somewhere in this conversation you will come to realize the answer as well...

You have a great day too...



edit on 8-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




heh... should have said beer with me eh


Would have loved to, when Jesus turns you upside down from your core and you talk about Him all the time people stop wanting to share beers with you. I miss that fellowship with friends.



You already assumed the bible is truth...


It's not an assumption.


i've never admitted to such assumptions...


For the sake of argumentation you did with the question you asked. It was an assumed presupposition. Even if you don't realize what you did.

You're arguing with a master of debate bro, not a masterdebater. (Now that was witty I don't care who you are, I deserve a star for that one alone.
)


There is truth within the bible... but as a single book i can not assume all of it is true...


Thanks for the Freudian slip that it's "a single book" now and not a collection of 66 by 40 different authors.

+1 for NuT


You can't corner me with paper walls then complain when one rips...


Great quip, mind telling me where you got it from so I can properly source it when I use it?



I also didn't say biblical accounts make God out to be 100% evil either...


You also said you don't cherry-pick the Bible so which one is it? Your stated beliefs are contradicting eachother. That's violating the law of non-contradiction.



Likely because God doesn't work that way....


True, but looking for a little more than that. That's obvious from the text itself.


at least the true God who you are assuming "inspired" all of this book...


It's not an assumption, my trust for it's inspiration from God rests in math, specifically probability. When you get into numbers like 1/10^ 4,087th power that proves it fact. Anything above 10^50th is defined by science as "impossible" by way of random chance. For a clue how big 1/10^4087th is there are only 10^18 atoms in the entire universe according to modern science.


You seem to think i have a problem...


You do. A HUGE one.


but there is no problem...


There is an enormous one, and if you can prove things with a probability higher than 10^50th power can occur by chance go ahead and get that Nobel prize and the 1 million bucks that comes with it. You could charge 6 figures just for speaking engagements, you'd never have to work again.


And speaking of Cain and Abel... IN gen 4 you can see "God" hinting at Karmic law...


No, you guys ripped that off, it's called by God the law of "sowing and reaping".



Like christian scripture you have to take their writings with a grain of salt... Gnostics believed we are Body and soul... just like christians... They say he had no footprints... You say he walked on water... Really is there much of a difference? I think not....


There is a massive difference. They were Doeticists, they, like Muslims, could not argue away the resurrection so they invented a plan that He wasn't actually human in the flesh. So yay! They don't have to answer the resurrection anymore! Problem solved!!



I also didn't say that either... Love is an aspect of God... the strongest emotional force in the universe... but he is not Just love... I also disagree the whole book points to him... though i won't deny that "some" of it does...


You haven't dug enough. It all does. Check out the "road to Emmaus" account.



Guilty of what... being innocent?


Your answer is in Isaiah 52:7 through all of 53. Get to your assignment instead of asking questions that the answer has already been provided for friend. That's rude.


I always play fair, i just don't assume...


That's not a true statement, we all fall into that trap.


I was being stuburn because thats who i am... born like that...


Chew on that for a few...


Look up Aquarious... You'll understand me a little more...


No, the Mezzeroth was corrupted at Babylon. I don't look to the stars for answers, I look to Him who created them with a single spoken sentence. "Let there be.."


The point being... we were discussing the issue that the OT God is not the same as the one Jesus spoke of...


I know the point, trying (painfully), to open your eyes that Jesus IS that OT God made flesh. But you're the one being stubborn here remember? You already admitted it.



You're not showing me anything i don't already know my friend...


Of course I'm not. That would take you not being stubborn. I hoped it was just the booze.



but im letting you walk this little journey for your audience...


And I appreciate the doors you're opening, having some great talks via email right now because of it. I'm eternally indebted to you friend, just hope you make it there to celebrate with me, I do love you.


edit on 8-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



For the sake of argumentation you did with the question you asked. It was an assumed presupposition. Even if you don't realize what you did.


I clairified my stance on that assumption... and did not accept the entire bible being true, even for the sake or arguement... I can not assume the entire bible is true... nor is it ONE book...


You're arguing with a master of debate bro, not a masterdebater.


Feel free to stroke your own ego... intimidation does not work on me



Thanks for the Freudian slip that it's "a single book" now and not a collection of 66 by 40 different authors.


Based on math i can't prove.... i've read that the information that Chucky gets his math from was cooked to favor his results... Unfortunatly i don't know a mathmatician personally... but im sure i will run into one eventually... And i will ask him to test ol chuckys results....

Either way, its not a single book... but im not going to argue about this fact...


Great quip, mind telling me where you got it from so I can properly source it when I use it?


Straight off the top of my head... I've told you before i don't read books... so i have no means of ripping off others sayings...


Corner me with walls that have no substance... like assuming the bible is entirely truth... and watch those walls crumble....


You also said you don't cherry-pick the Bible so which one is it? Your stated beliefs are contradicting eachother. That's violating the law of non-contradiction.


This isn't cherry picking... there are passages that make the OT God out the be evil... and others that make him to be just.... This is only an issue if one considers the entire bible to be truth... which its not...


You do. A HUGE one.



I disagree...


There is an enormous one, and if you can prove things with a probability higher than 10^50th power can occur by chance go ahead and get that Nobel prize and the 1 million bucks that comes with it. You could charge 6 figures just for speaking engagements, you'd never have to work again.


And again you are free to believe these results... i have no way of disproving mathimatical results... but again i've read that panin cooked his results to get these numbers.... Either way... chucky and Mr panin have no bearing(beering?
) on my beliefs on the information contained within said book...


No, you guys ripped that off, it's called by God the law of "sowing and reaping".
[

Incorrect.... Karmic law came before the bible.... LOONNG BEFORE... its something that has always been... unchanging... Sowing and reaping are a part of Karmic law....

and who are you refering to when you say "you guys"?


There is a massive difference. They were Doeticists, they, like Muslims, could not argue away the resurrection so they invented a plan that He wasn't actually human in the flesh. So yay! They don't have to answer the resurrection anymore! Problem solved


There you go... slap a label on alternative scripture then dismiss all of it in one lump sum...


Fail my friend



Your answer is in Isaiah 52:7 through all of 53. Get to your assignment instead of asking questions that the answer has already been provided for friend. That's rude.


I don't do assignments bro...
That passage explains his purpose... it does not say He was guilty of being innocent... that in itself is a contradiction...


That's not a true statement, we all fall into that trap.


I don't assume.... i've explained this before to... Assuming makes an ASS out of U not ME... theres no need to assume something that isn't there.... the words are clear...


I know the point, trying (painfully), to open your eyes that Jesus IS that OT God made flesh. But you're the one being stubborn here remember? You already admitted it.


And will continue to do so... i know im stuburn... And you'll never be able to prove to me that Jesus is God in anyway... ESPECIALLY... the God(s) of the OT...

HE did not say it... never once made that claim... And don't bother with the same old arguements we've beeen over a million times... Listen to what he said... I am Gods son... not God in the flesh...


And I appreciate the doors you're opening, having some great talks via email right now because of it. I'm eternally indebted to you friend, just hope you make it there to celebrate with me, I do love you.


No worries about that... perhaps you missed my thread... ALL will be saved

I do not fear or even wonder where im headed when my body dies... I do not fear God my friend... I know him very well because i know his SON


edit on 8-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


''It's not an assumption, my trust for it's inspiration from God rests in math, specifically probability. When you get into numbers like 1/10^ 4,087th power that proves it fact. Anything above 10^50th is defined by science as "impossible" by way of random chance. For a clue how big 1/10^4087th is there are only 10^18 atoms in the entire universe according to modern science.''

True, my friend. Everything, even in science, points to the fact that there must be a Creator, or even a God if you think about someone who is imnopetent. Particules didn,t just appeared like that.

edit on 8-4-2012 by starheart because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


''It's not an assumption, my trust for it's inspiration from God rests in math, specifically probability. When you get into numbers like 1/10^ 4,087th power that proves it fact. Anything above 10^50th is defined by science as "impossible" by way of random chance. For a clue how big 1/10^4087th is there are only 10^18 atoms in the entire universe according to modern science.''

True, my friend. Everything, even in science, points to the fact that there must be a Creator, or even a God if you think about someone who is imnopetent. Particules didn,t just appeared like that.


Amen! And I'm merely talking about the heptadic structures in the Greek text of just the last 12 verses of Mark that were removed from the Bible by the Gnostics because they rejected the resurrection. (And modern Bibles claim were later additions by some "well intentioned scribe") I'd love to meet this well-intentioned scribe who destroyed everything we know from mathmatics and science just with an off-the cuff addition!!!!

Just 12 verses. The ENTIRE Bible displays this same hepatic structure, every single book. It's the fingerprint of the Holy Spirit who authored it all. Now please tell me how 66 authors over 2,000+ years by 40 some authors who mostly never knew each other conspired to do this!!!!

When you consider the entire Bible does this and not 12 verses, I don't think I could write that number with the 5,000 character limit in a post. I would need to have powers for my base 10 powers!!!!!

Even the DNA strand, it's a 3 out of 4 error correcting code. WTF? Even we can't get computers to create that today, but somehow it happened by random chance mutations?!!!

Freaking absurd, it's the inspired word of God.


edit on 8-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by starheart
 


here is another one:

The first book of the NT Matthew, he uses certain words that are unique to his gospel in the Greek that appear only in Matthew. Those words are an exact multiple of 7 exactly. How did Matthew do this? There are two options:

1. He had all the other NT books sitting in front of him and made sure he used some words that wouldn't be used by any other author and only used an exact multiple of 7 of them or..

2. He conspired with all the other authors to tell them not to use any of his Greek words.

We know right off the bat #2 is absurd, so we'll go with option #1, Matthew obviously wrote his gospel last.

But wait. Mark has the same property, I thought Matthew wrote last? And Luke has this property, HUH?? I'm confused, I thought Matthew wrote last, err, I mean Mark did. And John..

And Paul's letters, and Peter's letters, James, and Jude too. There is only 1 answer I can tolerate mathematically, that the Holy Spirit inspired not every book, not every sentence, not every word, but every single letter of the text. that's the only way I can tolerate this mathematically without it being absolutely impossible.

And if you're read this far Akragon, no other new Age, Hindu, Muslim, or Gnostic 3rd century "gospels"
display any of these mathematical properties. NONE OF THEM DO.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



i've read that the information that Chucky gets his math from was cooked to favor his results...


That's called a "rescuing device". They cannot argue with the math, which is impossible to do so anyways, so the next illogical claim is. "It must be cooked up! It must be dammit!!" Well, the funny thing is, this only works with the Textus Receptus Greek text that liberal critics attack and they prefer to do this with the corrupted manuscripts that came from Alexandria. It won't work with them. It must be done with the Received Text, and Dr. Panin wasn't born when it was completed and collected.

The former head of computer mathematics at the National Security Agency built a computer program to search for ELS codes in the Torah and after 3 years of study quit his job, accepted Jesus Christ and now teaches the Torah codes full time in Israel hoping to lead Jews to their Messiah.

And don't disrespect Dr. Missler like that because you hate what he has to say.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


No disrespect intended... i don't hate what he has to say... im simply not interested in his claim...

I'll leave debunking his work to those that understand math better then i... in any case as i've said, i don't need to rely on someone elses research to see what is truth and what is not...




posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


No disrespect intended... i don't hate what he has to say... im simply not interested in his claim...

I'll leave debunking his work to those that understand math better then i... in any case as i've said, i don't need to rely on someone elses research to see what is truth and what is not...



You're not disrespecting me, I'm not him. But give the man the credit he is due as the holder of a Masters and a Doctorate. I can't stand what Dr. Bart Ehrman says about the Bible, but I give him his credit by saying "Dr. Ehrman". It would be extremely arrogant and rude if I said "Well, I disagree with good ol Bartie..."

By giving him a name a child uses your mocking him and implying he's a mental midget compared to you. If you don't want to say DR, say Mr. Missler, heck say Chuck. See what I mean bro? Even jmdewey who hates him doesn't do that.

And since I'm an Occam's Razor type of fellow answer me this question tomorrow after you've had time to meditate on it:

Why would an Atheist "cook up" Biblical evidence to justify him coming to faith in Jesus Christ and becoming a Christian? How the hell does that make sense? It doesn't pass the cut test man. Unless you have a great reason for him to go through all this mess and convert himself with his own invention.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



By giving him a name a child uses your mocking him and implying he's a mental midget compared to you. If you don't want to say DR, say Mr. Missler, heck say Chuck. See what I mean bro? Even jmdewey who hates him doesn't do that.


*shrug*

Hes also not a child, and im sure he has been called worse....

Its really nothing against him.. people call you NuT... Apparently i've earned the name Madcat....

it happens...



Why would an Atheist "cook up" Biblical evidence to justify him coming to faith in Jesus Christ and becoming a Christian? How the hell does that make sense? It doesn't pass the cut test man. Unless you have a great reason for him to go through all this mess and convert himself with his own invention.



why does anyone convert... apparently they're convinced of something...

Again i have nothing to say on his results...


edit on 9-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I thought, the story goes, that on the day of Pentecost, Antioch, the people were overcome with the spirit and spoke in tongues, tongues that foreign visitors to the area understood, as it was their language. Not angelic tongues, that's a new, made up gimick.

Really, if I started speaking in gibberish and told you it was angelic tongues, would you believe me? What is the purpose of speaking an angel's language. But, If I was suddenly overcome with the HS, and able to play a concerto on the piano, with no training or score, would you dismiss it because it was music?



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



NuT


Because thats my username.

N = NOT
u = ur
T = Typical

They do that because I DO that, lol. I sign my username that way because it's shorter than the full version, and I'm not giving out my real name to anyone I don't consider a real friend.

And besides, I like being called a NuT, Jesus was murdered, I can be called a nut for Him, it won't hurt.



why does anyone convert... apparently they're convinced of something...


Not their own "cooked up" evidence. That's absolutely fundamentally absurd and doesn't pass the smell test. Atheists do not "cook up" their own evidence to believe in God, or to accept and follow Jesus Christ leaving behind a Harvard mathematics degree to spend the remainder of their days locked in their study researching and documenting the cooked up evidence they themselves created and write 50,000 pages of the discoveries they themselves "cooked up" and die a poor man!

Ridiculous, that "cooked up" nonsense is by people who cannot argue with mathematics the science word defines literally as "impossible" so they revert to a "rescuing device" so they can get back to comfortability in their folly instead of letting their cognitive dissonance lead them to faith.

That's why.


edit on 9-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Point being...

i call him "chucky" as a term of endearment...




posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Point being...

i call him "chucky" as a term of endearment...



Ahh yes, so deeply endearing you call him by a name his wife doesn't even use, but not endearing enough to give the man 15 minutes of your time to listen to.

Please don't get that endearing with me ever friend.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I thought, the story goes, that on the day of Pentecost, Antioch, the people were overcome with the spirit and spoke in tongues, tongues that foreign visitors to the area understood, as it was their language. Not angelic tongues, that's a new, made up gimick.

Really, if I started speaking in gibberish and told you it was angelic tongues, would you believe me? What is the purpose of speaking an angel's language. But, If I was suddenly overcome with the HS, and able to play a concerto on the piano, with no training or score, would you dismiss it because it was music?



1 Corinthians 13:1 There are two types, tongues of men and tongues of what?

What does the Word of God say?

And don't for a second tell me you spend 35 years in a Pentecostal church and never once heard there were two different types. Foreign languages you didn't learn for the purpose of evangelizing and tongues of angels you use for personal prayer and singing to the living God.

That's gifts of tongues 101 in Charismatic churches. First week stuff.

10 straight minutes of the legit version from a man anointed and so on fire for God he gets death threats, his wife and kids get death threats, his pre-teen daughter even get death threats. And he does nothing but glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and attack the hypocritical neutered Christianity of today. God Bless this man:






edit on 9-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Point being...

i call him "chucky" as a term of endearment...



Ahh yes, so deeply endearing you call him by a name his wife doesn't even use, but not endearing enough to give the man 15 minutes of your time to listen to.

Please don't get that endearing with me ever friend.


don't make me



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 





You'll get over it bro, people are always mad for a few minutes or hours and they always get over it. It's normal when I speak. You'll be fine homie.

Gotta get up in 3 hours. Gotta sleep man.

God Bless, check out D.T..


edit on 9-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 03:29 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Typical Christian propaganda video full of empty rhetoric.

Of course I am aware that some Christians think that they speak in "angelic tongues." Who's to prove them wrong? But, I say it's all BS, big time.

BTW, You do understand, I don't trust the Bible to be the word of god, and am especially leery of anything Pauline. I reject Christianity. I reject the virgin birth, the resurrection, the Jesus died for the sins of the world, or that he is god. I reject the 2nd coming and the book of Revelations. I reject that Jesus was foretold in Genisis and that he fulfills the Jewish Messiah. I reject that he came to bring a "sword," as in his life he only demonstrated and preached love and non-violence.

The words of Jesus have been high jacked and sabotaged, my friend. Wake up and smell the mirth.



Honestly, the amount of superstition and ignorance you are willing to defend is staggering. I feel bad for your family,there must extreme animosity between you and your Mason father. He must truly be in pain. How hard for him to feel your rejection and your personal damnation of HIS soul to hell.

My mother was like you, and my father was like your dad. It was sad to see. She constantly attacked him and blamed everything, that she personally sabotaged, on Satan. She never let up, constantly harped, cried and screamed at him, withholding acceptance and affection because of her prejudice against his personal spiritual beliefs.

In the end, he lied to her about becoming a Christian, just to keep the peace. How sad and degrading it is to force a person to deny their real beliefs for some, "holier than thou" misguided Christian's feelings.
edit on 9-4-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by IgnorantSpecies
 

I think you're missing the point, the principles of the bible have to do with the heart and it's intentions. I understand your question and how it could be interpreted that way. If you read the bible it's clear (this is from the viewpoint of christianity) that you can't get to heaven by just following a set of rules to get by, it has everything to do with your heart. I really enjoyed reading your comment, i feel like these are healthy questions.



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